posted on March 31, 2001 02:38:43 AM new
In regard to the question of buying a stolen car (or any other item). There are 4 elements that must be met before a legal contract can take place. They are........
1. Competent Parties: Each party to the transaction must be of the age of majority (usually 18), and be able to enter into a contract, i.e., not drunk or mentally ill.
2. Consideration: Some consideration, usually money or other item (*) of value must be exchanged for the item for sale. (*) This item must be legal in nature, i.e., not drugs or other contriban.
3. Time: The contract must state a starting and ending time for the transaction to take place. Example, your car loan has a duration of either 36, 48, or 60 months. After that, the loan has concluded and the time of the contract has expired.
4. Legal Object: The item that you are buying MUST be legal in nature. The seller has to be the legal owner of the property and can not sell the item without proper title to it. Since a stolen car is NOT A LEGAL OBJECT, you can't legally buy and own it. This is regardless of how much money you've paid or who you paid for the car. Once the car (or any other item) is stolen, it becomes an illegal object, and the ownership rights to it can't be transferred.
Here's a perfect example of the concept of legal object. When is the last time you have ever heard of someone taking a person into court for non-payment of drugs. A plantiff asking a judge to require a defendant to pay for his cocaine. The answer is NEVER. Since drugs are not a legal object, the disputes are not settled in court.
If anyone differs with this post, please feel free to comment.
posted on March 31, 2001 03:45:41 AM new
"When is the last time you have ever heard of someone taking a person into court for non-payment of drugs"
A couple of years ago a buyer in a drug deal gone bad (seller took his money, handed over drugs, AND then robbed him of his drugs at gunpoint) went to the cops. The dealer was arrested for armed robbery, taking money under false pretenses, and illegal posession ... so just because its illegal doesn't mean ALL laws are inapplicable. The buyer got probation and went into rehab.
posted on March 31, 2001 04:19:35 AM newOn the serious side, what or who is it that decides who are the precious few that are VEROS??
You won't believe how easy it is for ANYONE to become a member of VERO. All you have to do is download a Notice of Infringement from ebay, fill it out with your personal info and an item number of an (allegedly) infringing auction, and FAX it back to ebay. You also have to sign a statement on the notice saying that you're the real copyright holder of said item. After they receive it, you're regstered as a VERO.
The funny thing about this is that ebay will recognize the FIRST person to file as the legitimate copyright holder of an item. Let's say you're browsing ebay and you see some awesome widget up for sale. Sales are going through the roof. The seller had a great idea and ran with it. He designed the widget and is manufacturing them in his garage.
You, seeing a golden opportunity, download a Notice of Infringement, fill it out with the item numbers of the real seller's items, and FAX it back to ebay. If the seller hasn't already filed for VERO status himself, you're now the official copyright owner (VERO) of that item. Ebay will immediately end the first seller's auctions and you're free to sell the item yourself.
Of course the seller will be p.o.'d, but unless he can prove that he is the real copyright holder he's out of luck as far as ebay is concerned. And unless the seller had the forsight to document everything properly, he just may be unable to prove that he is the legitimate copyright holder.
[ edited by dubyasdaman on Mar 31, 2001 04:33 AM ]
posted on March 31, 2001 07:53:18 AM new
Offer to ship it to them if they will cover the shipping.
About $15.00 should cover insured shipping.
They are billing the client at about $300.00 an hour so that should be no problem. They will make anouther $150.00 telling their clerk to send a letter and check for shipping.
posted on March 31, 2001 01:38:59 PM new
Well, this has certainly been a learning experience for me (bluebounce) It is good to get additional perspectives and takes on the matter, as I am realizing there are lots of different angles to the situation that never even crossed my mind. To the VERo's, I can see that it is very important to protect your intellectual property. I didn't realize how easy it is to steal someone else's idea. In my situation, I'm only a part-time seller who does it for fun. I started in antiques, pottery and primitives where there are very few VERo's involved. As it is getting more and more difficult to find decent antiques, I moved into other itmes, including housewares, handbags, draperies & linens, ect. (One discovery was that this type of merchandise was so easy to pack) But, this was an eye opener, to say the least, and I realize that I have been lax as a seller. Now, if I see something that might be a problem, I will definitely get is authenticated first.
And for the attorneys, I'm sure it was a canned letter and they hire college co-ops to search the net, and perhaps even send their letters. Then they bill the client for the big bucks. I should not have taken it personally. It was that I found their tone and their "demands" offensive. But, it certainly was a learning experience for me!
posted on March 31, 2001 01:50:54 PM new
dustystuff: On the brighter side, you have a nice handbag! I purchased what I though was just a cute little purse for .35 at a thrift store and when I looked up the maker on Ebay saw that this brand (which I'd never heard of, country bumpkin that I am) were going for over $100.00! (This was long ago when I was a newbie).
The thought it might be counterfeit never crossed my mind, so I listed it. While following my auction and noticing the other handbags on Ebay under that name, I saw a lot of "faux" items and realized mine was probably counterfeit. I e-mailed my bidders explaining this, and added a disclaimer to the auction, but still it got bid up to $35.00.
Here's where the karma came in.....the high bidder dead-beated on me! After all the hassle and worry of selling a "faux" designer bag, I decided to just keep it! I mean for .35 cents I had a nice little knock-off bag that impresses people who care about that stuff! That was three years ago, and the handle (vinyl!) is starting to crack, but I got my use out of it, and I enjoyed having a fancy, though faux, purse to flaunt around! Enjoy your Luis Vuitton!
posted on March 31, 2001 02:16:22 PM new
dusty...know it's not important compared to your situation with the purse, but if you want the blue bouncey guy for future posts (cause he is fun), you did it right, but you used parenthesis ( ) around the word bluebounce and you have to use brackets [ ] to make him work. Since you had asked about him, just thought I'd let you know.
Glad to hear you're feeling at ease with the whole situation now, too
aramatha
P.S. The bluebounce is a smiley and there's a whole list of them - all kinds - somewhere on a post here that AW posted.
[ edited by aramatha on Mar 31, 2001 02:18 PM ]
posted on April 1, 2001 09:03:26 AM new
Outoftheblue,
I know that "I don't buy it" is a figure of speech. I should have worded my reply better because what I thought you meant was "I don't believe it."
And yes, charities SHOULD authenticate their merchandise, but they most often do not. And since I know that a lot of seized counterfeit merchandise is donated to charities, I won't buy things there for resale.
As a matter of fact, many of these charities that get donations that are supposed to give the apparel to local community actually sell it wholesale, in bulk to dealers and resellers. Not all of the donated merchandise is counterfeit, but you can bet that some of it is. And even though they are *supposed* to remove the trademarks (labels, etc.) they will leave them on a good portion of the merchandise because that makes it more saleable on the wholesale level.
posted on April 2, 2001 08:29:30 PM new
We have a local thrift store that is ran by our local Sheriffs Department that sells TONS of illegal software that I would never get away with on eBay. Just who is suppose to "Police" a situation like that???
posted on April 3, 2001 09:30:23 AM newMicrobes If the law {enforce~mint} in your area is BAD, then have some fun. Call the manufacturers and let them know of the counterfeit merchandise. A US Marshall can conduct the warrant or the FBI. Also, in NY a Sheriff (sp), can do an arrest. I think all locals are different. Remember, you likely drive the road they patrol. "Support your local Police"
[ edited by Empires on Apr 3, 2001 09:38 AM ]
