posted on April 2, 2001 07:00:36 PMminnow-Yes, I did read the whole thread.
Eventhough the theme is self-insurance, the real issue, to me, is ethics. You apparantly see nothing wrong with the deliberate misrepresentation or the untruths when questioned because you believe buyers would lie to you if they knew the truth!
What is to keep a person from claiming they didn't get the package simply because the insurance stamp is not there? Seems to me, you have dealt with some pretty honest people and you have been extremely fortunate so far.
It's discouraging that anyone believes misrepresentation in any form can be justified or should be considered necessary.
I have been reading the boards here at AW for a while now and this is my first posting.
To avoid the legalities involved with calling yourself a self insured seller and the possible deception of your buyer thinking he has paid for a certain type of insurance that he is clearly not getting. Simply include a specific amount in the items total shipping/handling charge. The amount doesnt have to be excessive, that it would look like your gouging on the shipping charges. I have bought several items, basically the same thing with all having a different total shipping/handing charge not including the additional insurance and I have never squibbled over the dollar or two difference(not saying some won't)and If the buyer wants to pay for Insurance then so be it, add the 1.10 to your S/H price and buy the Insurance from USPS when you ship. You still get the extra be it 50 or 75 cents for your self insurance fund if you want to call it that, more than likey you will end up sending a refund or replacing the item before USPS does anyway. You've basically covered yourself without calling it "self insurance" , avoided any legal hassles, and if the extra 1.10 was paid by the buyer he has got what he paid for.
If your willing to take the risk of secure shipping you deserve 1.10 per item. So you make a few hundred a month, great. The USPS makes hundreds of thousands a month, anyone have any idea how many claims ther deny?
I'll bet minnow doesn't deny any.
To cover yourself in your auctions just say.
"To guarantee this item against loss or breakage during shipping please add 1.10 to your postage"
No law against that.
I do agree with the poster who said if a buyer emails you about a missing "insured stamp" Tell them you guaranteed the package & why. Filing a claim at the PO is not a guarantee that you will be reimbursed. I'll take your guarantee over the USPS anyday.
posted on April 2, 2001 10:43:58 PM
I think that full disclosure and honesty is the only policy that makes sense.
If they ask if you insured and you say you sent it from outer slobovia just to make them think that you insured it - well, it's lying. If you lie to your customers, justified by the belief that they will lie to you, I think it's just not a good practice.
If you were sure about it, you wouldn't have asked all of us. The fact that the end result is the same for the buyer doesn't justify the deception.
posted on April 3, 2001 12:03:57 AM
ok I've read them all
you say you charge 1.10 for insurance but when you ship you don't pay for the postal insurance, and by not drawing attention to this fact you avoid dealing with people filing false claims. if the people you are dealing with can add and subtract and know it costs 5.05 to ship a 2lb package priority mail with insurance and if you only have 3.95 on the package they know you didn't insure the package regardless of it being stamped insured.
per u-pic~~ "big business that is doing 10mil a year self insure"
doesn't have to be the case you can do it just as easy you just have to conduct yourself like big business. the big guys aren't going to send you a email saying you owe me 12.00 for the item and 6.00 for shipping, this is where your money will go: 3.95 is what we will pay to ship it to you, 1.10 is what insurance is going to cost, .50 is going to buy the packaging, and in our case .45 if going to help defray the cost of listing fees, closing fees, printing fees, you get the picture. they send you a bill saying 12.00 for the item and delivery is 6.00 (your item is to be as pictured it is guarantee to be in the condition advertised on our site if there are problems please contact us at [email protected])
Again go back to U-pic's 10 mil a year guys adopt the ways these guys operate. in all your auctions just state that delivery is x.xx(I personally Guarantee that this item will arrive as pictured if you ever have a problem.............) don't break it down or mention S/H/I so that it looks like 1.10 is going to pay for insurance x.xx for shipping etc. I would still insure with u-pic, it only costs .60 per 100.00 per package and you can still keep .50 per package, or if you ship with delivery confirmation it's only .40 per 100.00 of course unless you are manifesting your packages your going to have to pay .40 for the delivery confirmation. but that's just me.
there are lots of ways to go about it, get yourself a priority mail permit it will cost you 150.00 a year then there is no postage amount on the package at all just your permit number. if you get set up to do everything electronically with the post office you get free delivery confirmation and insurance is .50 per 100.00 per package. if you are mailing those 150-200 packages a week stuff like this will save you a bunch of time and some money and depending where you are you can even make money mailing other peoples packages if want that headache.
with the way people usually go on these boards guess we should start a thread about how egghead, amazon, ubid, whoever.com, doesn't deserve to make a profit, or how dare they charge this much for shipping when they ship in such a volume they can cut better deals and pay less for shipping, they are pocketing way too much cash off of their shipping. you can bet they are making way more on their shipping than 1.10 so we all should spread the word and only by from people that sell on ebay that charge actual shipping, and have all their stamps and dollar amounts physically visible. have on their invoices what they paid for the item and all the fees(paypal, ebay, hosting, auctionwatch, vrane, ISP) so we know their profit margin and if it is too much neg them so everyone knows they are making too much money and let others know not to bid up these peoples auctions.
bottom line, this is business, and business is business, there is good business and there is bad business, what is good for one may not be good for all. if anybody wants to conduct their business by lying to people and telling them that the post office lost their stamp when the shipping amount doesn't support that insurance was paid for, that's their business. If they want to self insure and run the risk of the state coming down on them, that's their business. it's not for me but I'm not going to call them a crook for trying to figure out a way to keep their head above water, especially if I'm buy this persons stuff.
also I should say, in the beginning I insured with the post office the only problems I ever had was when I had the buyer want me to trace the packages, once it was over 6 weeks, another time it was 5 weeks after that I never filed a trace only a claim. every claim I have had has been paid at the window(the only time I go to a window) and then all they have had me do is sign my name on the form. then I went to U-Pic, then the post office, then u-pic and now the post office again and back to u-pic. in between the times of switching I self insured for about a week each time if I had liked doing that I wouldn't be buying insurance now. but that's just me.
posted on April 3, 2001 06:12:43 AM
Just to give some ideas, here is what works for me:
I don't like USPS insurance because they take forever to settle a claim. I have found that a priority package with delivery confirmation has never been lost in several hundred packages I sent out. Incidentally, I have never lost a package sent out regular or book rate with no tracking either, but I won't have proof of delivery if I need it.
So I give my customers a choice, unless they live in an area where DC is not available and then they must take USPS insurance. My auctions say "insurance optional." My EOA says, "I can send this regular with no tracking or insurance, but you assume all risk. I have never had any get lost but some have taken a few weeks to show up. Credit card payments accepted only if you take priority shipping with delivery confirmation. I have never had any get lost and except for holiday season, they all show up in 2-3 days. Insurance is optional at $1 per $50 in value."
I charge $4 for priority shipping with DC unless it is an expensive item like a digital camera, where I charge $10 for the extra weight and for sending it signature required (1.75). Again, I tell the customer that I recommend signature required, but if no one is home, it will be taken to the PO for pick up. If they choose not to have it sent signature required, it may be left at the door or with a neighbor and they are accepting this risk.
Very few folks take the insurance. When they do, I keep it for self-insurance. I had one digital camera disappear going to an APO address and I replaced it. The PO took 5 months to approve the claim.
I only recall one person ever asking me why there was no insurance on the package and I explained that had it disappeared, I would have replaced it myself rather than making her wait a few months for the PO. She was also a seller and found this to be a good idea.
posted on April 3, 2001 09:55:50 AM
What is this thing about insurance stickers, stamps and such? The company I work for self-insures through an insurance agent and as far as I know we never got any of that stuff and it doesn't reflect on the package. A DC slip is all I need. SO the discussions about stamps, stickers and such are completely irrelevent
posted on April 3, 2001 10:20:11 AMWhat is this thing about insurance stickers, stamps and such?
Anyone who thinks they can accurately and consistently determine whether or not a package was insured by the USPS based on the stamp (or lack thereof) is operating under a false set of assumptions.
Around here, the post offices use at least three different "INSURED" stamps that I am aware of, and it wouldn't surprise me to find that there are others in use. Also, I have mailed at least one package that never got stamped.
When it comes down to it, the "INSURED" stamp on the package is essentially useless (except as an assistance for theives in identifying potentially valuable items) for anything insured for less than $50. The post office I go to won't process a claim based on the fact that the envelope is stamped "INSURED"- to file a claim for damage, they require the green receipt that is given to the seller when the item is mailed.
posted on April 3, 2001 10:39:37 AM
U-pic has a stamp program, though I know nothing about it because I've never used that system of theirs. there are several places where you can pay for insurance on your packages and you don't have to mark it insured.
stamps, green slips, receipts, if your insuring with the post office none of it really matters as long as you have the postage on the box that proves that insurance was paid for.
posted on April 3, 2001 10:42:27 AMstamps, green slips, receipts, if your insuring with the post office none of it really matters as long as you have the postage on the box that proves that insurance was paid for.
posted on April 3, 2001 11:07:03 AM
next time ask them what happens if you loose the green slip. if the buyer has the box and it has the postage amount that proves you insured it they have to pay the claim. Also that is one of the reasons that the recipient is to keep all the packing materials is to verify if insurance is paid for and that it was packed properly.
the new postal terminals records your insurance on your receipt and they don't even use the green slips anymore at our office. when I insured with the post office I once had a claim on an item that I know was insured and I couldn't find the green slip, they trusted me and paid the claim. Now I'm not saying that they are going to do that for everybody I have a great relationship with my post office, if they are busy or the guy that handles the bulk mail is not there(which is almost every time I ship) I cancel all my own packages and even presort my packages by zone to help them out.
It probably didn't hurt that last year I spent over 30,000 in postage and everyone at the post office knows me, so I guess they figured they could trust me on a 25.00 claim.
posted on April 3, 2001 04:55:56 PM
I know I'm in the minority here, but I like the idea (except the part about lying and saying that it was USPS Insured when it wasn't). I have even considered self-insuring myself. I would not lie to my customers. I would simply say to add $1.00 to the shipping fee if they wish to ensure replacement or refund in the event that the package is lost or damaged by the post office. If I were asked, I would simply explain that they were not purchasing insurance, but the guarantee that I will replace the item or give a full refund if it were lost or damaged by the Post Office. I would explain the inefficiency of the USPS Insurance system and explain that my guarantee they would receive reimbursement or replacement much more quickly. As soon as they sign the affidavit saying that they never got the package, required by the Post Office before tracing a lost package, I would refund or replace the item. I feel that by requiring the buyer to sign the USPS affidavit would lessen the chance of deception by the buyer. I SEE ABSOLUTELY NOTHING WRONG WITH THIS.
