posted on April 10, 2001 01:49:40 PM
Craig...You are to be commended for trying to help others sell books on ebay and what I'm going to say is not meant to demean what you have been saying but I do feel the need to respond to your post at 12:53 today.
You just mentioned that you walked into a bookstore that was "generally and obscenely overpriced" and went on to say that "I couldn't find a single title that I felt certain I could resell for a profit.It was a shame too because the shelves were packed with interesting items."
While I can understand your disappointment in not being able to find anything that you felt you could resell for a profit, that doesn't make the prices at that bookstore overpriced.
A used bookstore owner is in business, just like you are. In most cases he is in business to sell for RETAIL the inventory he has. Normally, the bookseller is not selling his books wholesale. His business normally isn't set up to supply the ebay retailer with inventory that can be sold at a profit. To say the shopowner's prices are to high based on the fact that you can't resell at a profit sounds...well, greedy (for lack of a better word).
This touches on the question Keziak had in the first "Bookselling for idiots" thread. She wondered if it was possible to find books to resell from a "professional" bookseller since one would assume the "professional" would be pricing his wares at "market prices", leaving little room for profit if his customers were to try reselling books they purchased from him.
Any retailer is going to try and maximize his profits and no one should expect that retailer to price his wares so others can reap the profits that should have been his.
It is possible to find items for sale at a used bookstore. The owner may not realize the value of some of his merchandise (no one can know EVERYTHING there is to know about what they acquire) and the aware buyer can find those gems. The owner may have acquired something that his clients aren't interested in and he will price it low to move it, so you can buy it and resell at a profit. The merchant may have gotten a huge bargain on the item and decided to sell below market for a quick return on his money...so you can profit on that item.
But the merchant isn't in business to let us make HIS profit. He isn't in business to just cover his rent...he wants to make money to...just like you do
posted on April 10, 2001 02:22:24 PM
misscancle - I don't think you have anything to worry about, since you described the book carefully; however, if you still have an uneasy feeling when the auction ends and you send the book out, copy the auction page and send it along with the book. Many sellers do that anyway, and when you feel someone has overpaid it is probably an excellent idea.
posted on April 10, 2001 02:50:53 PM
Thanks, everyone, for the input. It is up to $22 now with 5 days to go and my "inner idiot" feels so guilty. This thread was named for me, it seems!
posted on April 10, 2001 03:14:32 PM
Amy - I believe the thought which mentally follows "generally and obscenely overpriced" for most of us is - "compared to others of its ilk". Many (most??) booksellers are also readers...and as either a seller or a reader, we've wandered the aisles of enough of them to have a general idea of the prices. Most don't vary to huge extremes. I've hung out in them in lots of states over the years...and to a large extent...certain types of pricing are prevalent. That's not to say certain specialists or locations don't command more by any means - in fact we have one here at the beach which gets about .25 less than new retail from bored or rain-stymied tourists...and more power to them, but I don't shop there for reading, let alone resale.
posted on April 10, 2001 03:20:10 PM
Hi Amy. Thanks for your thoughtful post. No offense taken whatsoever. You may be surprised to hear that I don’t disagree with a word you said–in principle. However, I may have been guilty by omission in not being more clear about what I meant by “generally and obscenely overpriced.” I don’t know if you’ve read this entire thread or not (or last week’s thread titled “deals in used bookstores”), but I routinely visit dozens of used bookstores every month and purchase items for resale on eBay. The point of my first post in this thread was to illustrate how profitable this can be, even when things are purchased from savvy booksellers. At no time did I mean to imply that used bookstores have an obligation to offer me steals on books or risk meeting my disgust in a national forum. On the contrary, in my area most of these merchants are quite knowledgeable in the field and price accordingly. My underlying premise throughout this discussion has been that _despite_ this state of affairs, one can still find things for resale in these venues simply because the market for brick & mortars is different from eBay, not because anyone is offering an underpriced book. When I go into a bookstore, I don’t look at obvious things of value; I look for things I know from experience _need_ to be priced low in order to sell under that particular roof but notwithstanding will command strong prices on eBay.
The bookstore I mentioned today was obscenely overpriced for the market it was in, and I base this judgment on years of experience in visiting these kinds of stores. I also predict he won’t be in business long unless he corrects this situation. I collect books as well as sell them, and I’ll often pay a top price for a title I collect if I recognize it as something that doesn’t surface often. Sometimes opportunities for these things are few and far between. One has to act or be left empty-handed. What bugged me about this guy was that even as a collector I would’ve been loath to give him my business. He was _that_ far out of line.
posted on April 10, 2001 03:34:51 PM
Bibliophile - although it's said great minds [reader]...I do want to thank you for all of the great info you post!! I'm primarily a reader and often the two don't equate, so I'm still learning after all these years!!
posted on April 10, 2001 04:49:48 PM
Craig..I'm glad you took no offense because none was meant.
I'm glad you clarified what you meant because as you wrote it the meaning wasn't clear. I would hate to think someone would have seriously thought you felt the prices were to high because you couldn't find anything you could make a profit on.
I do somewhat disagree with you on the "ebay is a different marketplace" idea.
Ebay is a "global" marketplace, and as such the ebay seller has a better chance of finding the "right" buyer for a specific item.
For the local retailer, it is harder to find the "right" buyer. If that retailer is a long time seller (especially if he specializes in a particular field) who is well known nationally and/or internationally then he has a similar ability to find the right buyer.
If the retailer is located in a large, cosmopolitan city such as New York he also has a good chance of finding the "right" buyer.
As we move into smaller and smaller market areas (small town America), the seller has a smaller chance of finding the right buyer. Compared to those sellers, we have a distinct advantage on ebay.
The advantage we have is the auction envirornment. In a book store the book sells to the first interested person who sees it. We, on the other hand, hope to find two or more individuals (at the same time) who are interested in our item and who will develop a feeling of "possession" (its mine!) and who will be danged if they are going to let this book slip from their fingers.
But if we use the BIN option we are turning our backs on the one BIG advantage we have over a B&M bookstore. The competition between two buyers is what gets us the high money.
Our buyers are looking for the same things a buyer in a B&M store is looking for. The person who makes doll houses is already looking for books with tiny illustrations of art work. The aquarium enthusiast is already looking for the books on those fish (danged if I can remeber how to spell it!). The collector of Scotty Dog items is already scouring local bookstores for those books that have "something" to do with their favorite dogs.
We don't create the desire in the dollhouse maker for the book with miniature art illustrations when we put the book in the "Dolls, dollhouses, miniatures" category. The desire is already there. All we are doing is making sure the person who wants it will find it easily....and hopefully, more than one person!
The ability to put the book in front of a specific targeted audience is another advantage we have over the B&M bookstore...but it isn't a different market.
The B&M seller could do this too if he were to ask each customer what they are interested in...if he were to find out the varied interests of his customers. If he does that, he too can bring out that art book when a doll house enthusiast walks through the door and sell it to the customer.
A successful merchant learns the likes and wants of his customers...he is doing exactly what we do when we decide who our target market is.
posted on April 10, 2001 05:26:35 PM
Again, I agree, Amy—well, with almost all you’ve said this time. I didn’t mean to suggest that eBay was different in the sense that the nature and needs/wants of the buyer is different, only in the mechanisms at play and the scope of the marketplace. The word “different” applies aptly in both cases. Do you think we should go to diction counseling?
I disagree to some extent with what you said about creating desire. In the case of the miniature art print book, I’m not sure it would occur to most dollhouse collectors to seek a book of this type. I truly believe I did create (or would you prefer the word elicit?) a specific desire in this case, though obviously more general desires were already in place. Good salesmen do this all the time. However, in a brick & mortar, the most a bookseller does (ordinarily) is toss a book on a shelf until it sells. He wouldn’t make up a sign that said: “Look here, dollhouse lovers! Here’s the perfect book for making framed prints for your Lilliputian walls.” I bet big money he’d leave it in the art section. At best he might ask a customer what his wants are, but even then I doubt it would occur to him to make the connection with a dollhouse aficianado. This is one area where eBay differs greatly. When you list a book, you bring (or should bring) all your imagination to bear to present it in such a way so as to sell it immediately. Sometimes it’s amazing what comes out of this. You can’t toss it on a shelf, and if you do a cyber equivalent of this, chances are it’ll die a slow death.
I have some thoughts about the BIN option too, but I’m afraid these will have to wait until tomorrow.
posted on April 10, 2001 05:31:42 PM
I've neglected to thank you for these threads, bibliophile. They've inspired me to do some active searching for interesting books to sell...rather than just wait for them to come to our shop.
So...thank you...
posted on April 10, 2001 06:07:47 PM
Craig..I picked the dollhouse maker/art book buyer on purpose
Twenty-five years ago I got interested in minatures. I made some miniature furniture and a doll house for my daughter. I bought a number of books on miniature making (not toy making). All of those books told the hobbyist where to look for items that could be used in a 1"=1' scale room. Art books, art cataloges, art auction catalogues, home decorating books, etc were all mentioned as sources for miniature art work for those who were not artistic enough to paint their own...or didn't have the money to buy from artists who specialized in miniature art work.
The miniature enthusiast already knows art books are a good source for their hobby.
You were intuitive though to realize who would be interested in that book...you looked beyond the obvious (art lovers), you thought outside the box!
My point is that a good merchant does this too. A good merchant gets to know his customers. He talks with them, listens to them...and begins to realize what their interests are. A good merchant will KNOW a regular customer is into dollhouse making...and that merchant will immediately think of that customer when he acquires that book. Before it goes on the shelf the customer will be contacted and told about the book.
Being able to see who might be interested in a particular book is not unique to us ebay sellers. We are doing what most business owners do everyday.
Your right...a bookshop owner will not put up a sign that says "look here dollhouse lovers...". But when he is chatting with a customer who mentions her dollhouse she is decorating a lightbulb will go on in his head! He will say "you have to see this great art book I got the other day...it has lots of little pictures of famous art works. I bet you could cut them out and frame them for your dollhouse!"
Good salesmen exist in the real world too.
Actually, they were there BEFORE ebay was even a twinkle in Pierre's eye
posted on April 10, 2001 06:38:42 PM
Amy - interesting comments. But I think the main point can be boiled down to my Australian cichlid [there you go] fan. He isn't likely to walk into my local used bookstore to pay $7 for this neat book on his hobby. But it was worth $20+ to him when I posted a copy on ebay. Should my local bookseller have tried to sell this book for $20? Maybe. All they do is price by age for the most part. Probably they would feel they did fine if someone else paid the $7. I wouldn't have bought this book at all if it was priced $20.
All we are talking about are strategies to find the $7 books in local bookstores that we can sell for $20+. It's a real challenge, and riskier than scrounging booksales and thrifts for 50 cent books to sell for $4 [before ebay takes their cut]. But like any challenge, it's also exciting and - I think - if you pull it off, everyone wins, including the local bookseller who did, after all, sell his book, even if it's to someone who will try to turn around and resell it.
posted on April 10, 2001 07:43:10 PM
Sometimes I make "Trips" buying things, and I always check out used book stores. Prices range from obscenely *cheap* (grab it and try not to laugh when you pay for it) to higher than I want to pay.
When I run into prices that are higher than I want to pay, sometimes, if its a book store I've never been in that has a lot of books I want, I just real honest with the owner and ask them if they want to play "let's make a deal" on a load of books. Half the time they are at least interested if I want several dozen books, and often I reach a meeting of the minds with the owner.
My Pa always told me that buying was 80% of buying and selling. If you buy right, you don't go wrong.
posted on April 10, 2001 08:23:27 PM
Keziak..the strategies your talking about are not limited to used bookstores. They are the same strategies that are used if your at a garage sale, estate sale, thrift store or auction.
The strategies consist of understanding the collecting public's mind. Of understanding what people are looking for and why. Of recognizing who the target market/s will be for a particular book. Of recognizing what is hard to find.
It also consists of targeting the correct market. An example I can think of is someone I know locally who also sells on ebay (books). We were both at an auction once and he outbid me on a lot of books. In that lot was a book published in the 1880s...it was a first person memoir of a man who had, as a child, been an early settler in the Ohio area.
The other seller listed it under history. they did their normal listing of calling it an antique and collectible book, took lots of pictures of the book, title page, copyright page, table of contents, just about every illustration in the book, and several shots of the text pages themselves. They sold it for $39.99 to one bidder.
What they didn't do was try to really find out what the book was about...there was NO synopsis of the contents. Because of this they missed three chapters that would have pushed that book way up (I figured it would sell for over $100). They missed the three chapters that went into detail of the author's participation in the underground railroad. His farm was a safe house for the escaped slave's attempt to freedom. He had been extremely active in helping slaves escape to freedom. His memoirs had been written shortly after the fact and then published after his death.
But because they didn't take the time to find out what the book was about and WHO would want that book they lost out (by the way..it took them three times listing that book before they got one bid on it).
I think that what Craig has been trying to show people is that they have to think about who would want a specific book and why...and then sell it to the correct market.
Doesn't matter where you find the books. what matters is knowing who the buyers will be.
And taking advantage of the fact that we sell to a global market so we have a much larger audience for our merchandise than the local used bookseller does.
posted on April 10, 2001 08:33:36 PM
I have a question regarding when to sell a book.
As an example: Recently lucked out at an estate sale and was able to purchase three large HB coffee table books on a popular hobby (carousel horses) for $2 each. After research on eBay I saw where each of them sold for $30 to $50 each, which was the retail price. They were published in the 80s.
During the research I also saw where a couple of them only brought the $9.99 starting bid. But those selling before and after sold for the higher amounts. Why?
What is the formula? Do you list them now, or wait? And how long? Is summer a good time to list books? Or wait until the fall?
This area of book selling stumps me. I know it all depends upon when the right buyer is looking, but still, some of this strategy is confusing - at least to me. LOL
edited because of weird wording
[ edited by brie49 on Apr 10, 2001 08:55 PM ]
posted on April 10, 2001 08:49:54 PM
Nearly 3/4 of my books sell on one bid or BIN. Doesn't seem to matter what the opening bid is. Usually I set it well above the average selling price of similar items.
Works for me. Frankly I got tired of selling valuable books for $2. just because only one bidder found it that week. Now I start between $10.75 and $24.75. Occasionally I have to relist. And I always have a BIN price on anything below $50
brie49, I like SIN (sell it now)
Bill
[ edited by cdnbooks on Apr 11, 2001 05:29 AM ]
posted on April 10, 2001 08:51:38 PM
Bibliophile--thanks for all the insight!
I've been selling books & vintage toys now for almost 2 years & seem to do well in lots of areas.But I've learned so much here!
Thanks everyone!
Recently I've taken lots of effort into doing research on book values.
Bought a 20th century modern fiction price book guide & can't wait to read it.
Have been seling older Stephen King 1st edition books & have done fairly well.
1st ed books by Frank Herbert command high prices. But they have to be 1st ed books & not Book Club editions. Those only go for about $10 each while the real 1st eds can go from $70-350!
Some BIG GOLDEN BOOKS do well.
There's one by Disney the newer one published in the 80's-Uncle Remus stories
I sold for $40.
by the way, I found an African cichlids book today & remembered it from the previous bookselling for idiot thread. But my hubby saw it & thought it might be a dud so I passed it up.
Now I am wondering if I did the right thing. Oh well, I can always go back to that store & pick it up.
You just never know what you'll find when you go book hunting!
I love going home & researching my newly found stash!
posted on April 10, 2001 09:07:27 PMBrie49: There are several factors. A lot depends on who is looking for that particular subject/book while you are selling. A lot depends on presentation: image/image quality, description, info on contents, etc. A lot depends on attitude or tone of auction--buyers are turned off be TOS that are stringent or strident or just downright *mean* Lower starting bids are more attractive than high ones. And what you charge for shipping *does* affect your auction. If two sellers are selling the same book at the same start price, and both with attractive layout/descriptions, buyers will turn toward the one that has the more reasonable shipping costs.
posted on April 11, 2001 04:29:34 AM
AMY: My instincts tell me that we’re becoming somewhat argumentative here, and that’s the last thing I had in mind when I started this thread. Perhaps it would be best if I simply stated again that I don’t disagree with anything you’ve said in principle. Good salesmanship works in any venue, of course, but because the typical eBayer is coming to market with only a handful of books and presenting them to millions of potential buyers (whereas the used book dealer offers tens of thousands of books to typically only hundreds of potential buyers) certain things necessarily change.
BRIE49: I think bunnicula is right that there are lots of factors that figure into why identical items sell in one instance for a good price and either don’t sell at all or for much less in others (and also listed a number of important things to look at). What helped me immensely in understanding the complexities of this was to put myself in the role of a bidder—that is, actually bid on books. I noticed myself doing the same things that other bidders do, bidding on one listing and avoiding another offering an identical item, only this time I knew exactly why it was happening because I was the one doing it. Suddenly the sun rose in the morning sky.
CDNBOOKS: I like (S)BIN too, and I think they’re every bit as competitive as letting auctions run their course. I can explain this best from the perspective of a buyer, not a seller. I buy things to resell both online and in used bookstores. If a given item interests me but I’m uncertain about buying it, say, for lack of knowing it’s value, I’ll probably give it a pass in the brick & mortar, look it up when I get home, and return to buy it some other time (if everything checks out). Chances are it will still be there. If I find something interesting online, however, I have the ability to research it immediately, and if it’s something desirable, I know it won’t be there long. Action is required (assuming BIN is an option), and if it means paying another buck or two than I would in a store, I’ll do it because my profit margin allows this. It’s the competitive atmosphere of eBay, in other words, that stimulates me to behave differently. I don’t sell as high a percentage of books via BIN that Bill does, but when I do, I get a very good price for them. This isn’t to say that some items do better when listed strictly for auction, but the items that fall into the latter category, for me anyway, are far less common.
posted on April 11, 2001 07:52:02 AM
This is just an aside to the discussion about when to sell things - I can't explain this and never can when it happens:
I had an auction close last night on a BIN - (these are old stock that I'm trying to liquidate) - it had an opening bid of $3 with a BIN of $5.99. This exact same book in the last two weeks has sold anywhere from $1.50 to $4.50. There are 5-7 other open auctions with starting bids of $2 or less. So, why would someone purchase mine for $5.99? (and this is not a repeat buyer!)
I will never figure this stuff out! (but I'm not complaining!)
posted on April 11, 2001 08:25:20 AM
Craig...your attennas need readjustment I wasn't getting argumentative ...just making an observation or two, an opinion or two. Wasn't even disagreeing completely...just somewhat
posted on April 11, 2001 08:33:34 AM
ARAINDROP5 - You're right about the Big Golden Books selling well. The LGB dominated for a long time, now I think demand is growing for their bigger brothers. I also sold the Uncle Remus BGB at about the same price you got. Keep in mind of course that Uncle Remus/"Song of the South" items of any type are very hot right now, I think largely due to Disney's refusal to release the movie on video in the USA. I sold a Disney storybook by adding "w/ Uncle Remus Story" to the title and taking pictures of the illustrations from that story. Mine sold for $13, while other copies (some in better condition) sat unsold with lower opening bids. I even sold a recent-issue Brer Rabbit bean bag toy (not an official Beanie Baby, but it was licensed by Disney) over the Christmas season for over $30! So I never pass up "Song of the South" items in decent condition.
posted on April 11, 2001 11:30:32 AM
Jane - I've seen this mentioned before, and it may have been in this thread - some people really do not like the auction format and if given the opportunity to BIN, they will do it even if they must pay more. Maybe they hate the competitiveness, or the idea that someone can take "their" item away, but for whatever reason, they don't like to have to bid against others to get what they want.
posted on April 11, 2001 02:15:09 PM
I found an interesting article on the history of paperbacks written by Oliver Corlett, the owner of Popula.com. You may read it at:
posted on April 11, 2001 08:55:51 PM
I don't think that we have really addressed the basics of eBay selling here. Regardless of the book, there is a lot one can do to maximize one's selling price.
Good photos, good descriptions, friendly TOS, solid feedback, tremendous customer service and a good opening bid and BIN strategy can combine to work wonders.
I just sold a book for nearly $40. It was my 3rd relist. The last one of these, which was essentially identical, sold for $7 by another seller.
That difference sure covered my relisting fees.
Sure this is an extreme example, but when I got home tonight after a marathon meeting, it sure made my day.
posted on April 12, 2001 07:24:40 AM
misscandle; Thank you for posting that article. That was very interesting reading, I'm going to poke around there some more, but today I really have to do some listing.
Lower starting bids are more attractive than high ones. And what you charge for shipping *does* affect your auction. If two sellers are selling the same book at the same start price, and both with attractive layout/descriptions, buyers will turn toward the one that has the more reasonable shipping costs.