posted on April 12, 2001 11:06:57 AM
Hmm, perhaps he sells on Ebay, too, and can't handle the competition. I love the tips and find the whole thread revelant and helpful to selling on Ebay.
posted on April 12, 2001 11:12:01 AM
Competition is not my concern.
I posted as I found it curious that the Ebay Outlook was being over-run with topics not Ebay related. Are not books sold thru other on-line auction venues? I would expect that this thread has a wider target other than just Ebay and therefore it would be more hlepfull to a wider vaiety of online users to have it in a more appropriate Board.
There are apparently those that do and those that do not agree with my Point of View.
posted on April 12, 2001 11:17:21 AM
I sell on ebay, and if this thread was any more relevant, I would get no sleep. As it is, I am reading it obsessively.
But just to get into the global spirit, I do wonder where you booksellers list these days? I primarily sell on ebay and half.com /Amazon Marketplace.
I've also made failed attempts to establish a viable presence in Yahoo, Bidville, and Bibliofind. I had a flurry of sales on Yahoo a few weeks go, but since then haven't sold anything. Bidville came up zero. As for Bibliofind, I have a number of items listed there and have sold a few, but am not sure what impact the merger with Amazon will have.
posted on April 12, 2001 11:25:17 AM
I wouldn't get your knickers in a knot over a Dr Trooth troll post. In the last year he has made 123 posts of the types seen here. Personally I am still waiting to see a point of view that I even marginally agree with or see any merit in.
Methinks that that is the whole idea
Bill
[ edited by cdnbooks on Apr 12, 2001 11:25 AM ]
posted on April 12, 2001 01:44:57 PM
I respectfully request that the moderator suspend DrTrooth's posting privileges. His presence here is both unrelated to the thread and disruptive. Thanks.
posted on April 12, 2001 02:13:25 PM
Thanks, misscandle, for your kind remarks.
There's another website you might be interested in if you're serious about selling books online -- www.ioba.org. The IOBA stands for Independent Online Booksellers' Association. As the name suggests, it's a nonprofit organization for small independents. They have quite a few useful resources on the site. For instance, there's a glossary of terms commonly used to describe books, a section on widely accepted terms used in describing a book's condition, and a newsletter archive with info and tips on online selling. If you want to join, there's an annual membership fee of some kind, but most of these resources are available just for the browsing. One of Popula's main honchos, Maria, has been a member there practically since it was founded (since books are one of the areas we particularly specialize in on Popula, along with various other "vintage" categories), and was until recently chairperson of the PR Committee.
I'm curious to know, also, whether anyone who is active in selling books on ebay, popula, and other online auction sites has also tried selling on fixed-price sites, and, if so, what their experience has been.
Thanks for reading this
Oliver Corlett
www.popula.com
("Where'd you get that?"
posted on April 12, 2001 06:42:23 PMOliver - The problems that I found with the fixed price sites were two-fold -
1 - The constant underpricing....I cannot understand why you would sell a book for fifty cents - that's not worth the time it takes to list, package, and trips to the post office. If you want to give books away, take them down to your local thrift store. High volume would just make this worse. If everyone prices competitively, the profit is shared and it is worth everyone's time and effort.
2 - Most sites charge a per book shipping rate - they do not combine shipping prices. Buyers do not like this at all. And the sites that let you set your own shipping prices do not get the traffic volume to make listing profitable.
Just my two cents....ymmv.
I would like to know how popula does on book sales - I haven't been there awhile, but I may check it out again....
posted on April 12, 2001 10:59:28 PM
Bibliophile, this is a great thread. Thanks for bringing it back. Great information here. You've prompted me to start looking at bookstores for finds to resell.
Here is a concern that I have with people selling books on ebay. Let me just say first, I'm all for people selling and making money. My concern is that people are selling a few books here and there and really don't know what they are doing. I look at a lot of book auctions everyday and it astounds me that some of these people can offer books for sale with almost no knowledge of what they are selling.
I'm searching for a popular authors books right now on a second browser. Since reading I have opened 3 auctions that have totally irated me.
1. This is a rare book (only about 100,000 in first press run). I don't see a # line so it must be a first edition.
2. Books are very nice, as the description, pictures of books and three are ex-lib, although you can barely tell it from the picture.
3. And now for my favorite ebay bookseller's term. OOP-I can go to B&N and pick up a copy anytime that I want.
I've been thinking about moving into some other sales areas on ebay but have been holding back due to not knowing enough about the products to sell intelligently. I sometimes sell some magazines and records along with the books, but I have been collecting those almost as long.
Other collectible areas, I don't have knowledge in and I don't sell in because of it.
I have neg'd/neutral'd more than one seller because I bought a book from them that was represented as a 1st edition and when it arrived was a book club, ex-lib or not nearly in the condition stated.
I believe that a person needs to be knowledgeable about what they sell and put in the time to find out what it is before they put it up for sale. Seller's that don't are asking for trouble.
posted on April 13, 2001 03:54:54 AM
micheneraddict: I am sure you are right that many people selling books on ebay aren't knowledgeable...but is that so much different from sellers of other items? Isn't the point of ebay that everyone can participate, not just specialists?
I frequently see auctions that provide virtually no information, but noone is making me bid on them. If I am not comfortable with the description, I can choose to email with questions or move on.
Also, I would not neg someone unless or until they refuse to take the item back and refund. I have refunded once or twice when a customer was not satisfied - I see that as just a part of doing business.
posted on April 13, 2001 04:23:37 AM My concern is that people are selling a few books here and there and really don't know what they are doing. I look at a lot of book auctions everyday and it astounds me that some of these people can offer books for sale with almost no knowledge of what they are selling.
The way I see it, threads of this type only contribute to the problem. I've spent years acquiring experience and knowledge of the market. I did it through research, a lot of hard work, and a lot of travel.
This thread strikes me as an informercial, a la "You Too Can Be a Bookseller For Fun and Profit In Your Spare Time."
I think it encourages people who may be very good in other areas of selling to suddenly try bookselling as if "any idiot can do it." What you get is a lot of new amateurs who aren't ready, who haven't done the legwork, and who haven't spent the better part of their lives collecting books, entering the market and diluting the professionalism of it. I get e-mails all the time from people who have purchased books from neophytes (or just plain nincompoops) who haven't described books accurately or honestly, or who can't tell a broken hinge from a library binding, and it pisses people off. Just have a look at the feedback profiles of some of the bookselling "idiots" at half.com (and this isn't to disparage all sellers at half.com because I've dealt with some real pros there too). Sorry, but the inexperienced, the dabblers, and the downright incompetent hurt us all.
In my experience, bookselling isn't just something you do because somebody suggested it on a message board. It's the result of a lifelong love affair with books. It's second nature. Unfortunately, people think that because they know what books are, and because they know where to get books, that anybody has what it takes to sell them professionally. I respectfully disagree.
posted on April 13, 2001 04:59:39 AM
Spaz, I think you've got the cart before the horse here. I don't think anyone or almost noone is going to take up bookselling because of this thread!
Rather, those of use that have been selling books for years are now learning more about selling, more about what to buy, more about what our discriptions should say, ect.
Probably if every book seller read these threads then there would be no complaints from buyers. Tho I am a reader selling to readers nevertheless occasionally something collectible comes along and this helps me identify and describe it better, and it couldn't come at a better time as I am preparing 500 books for sale. Now I'll know to box lot the Book clubs and how to identify them.
posted on April 13, 2001 05:33:44 AM
Well, I must admit that I am guilty as charged. I'm an avid bookreader and most of the books in my 'collection' have been read so much that the spines are bent and the pages nicked to death . After reading this thread, I went into the other room and pulled about 900 books that I don't read anymore. I'll be selling them over the summer. Most of them are either bookclub editions (I should own stock in SFBC) or paperbacks that have been read 30+ times each.
I have been educated by the experts here, and will now be able to represent these books quite accurately, with bookclub editions clearly marked as such (I had no idea before this thread), lots of photos, and knowledge of how to identify first editions, etc.
So, when you see dog-eared books for sale on ebay and half by me, you can rest assured that you will receive exactly what is described.
Without this thread, my house would continue to be a fire hazard
posted on April 13, 2001 06:16:56 AM
But you haven't been educated, don't you see? That's my point. People read a thread like this, get a few pats on the head from its originator, and suddenly think they know all they need to know to do the job properly.
Doesn't matter anyway. I don't expect to change any minds. Threads like this appeal to folks who don't want to pay their dues, who want to know the shortcuts, who want to reap the rewards that others have spent years earning. I'm exactly what they don't want to hear.
posted on April 13, 2001 06:24:01 AM
"But you haven't been educated, don't you see? That's my point. People read a thread like this, get a few pats on the head from its originator, and suddenly think they know all they need to know to do the job properly."
So, am I to 'assume' then, that the entire library of books in the other room that have been purchased and read by me count for no experience at all with books? The fact that when I sell these books they will be sold cheaply and labeled as dog-eared, read, bookclub edition, etc.. means that I should not sell them at all? Perhaps I would be better off just setting a match to the whole lot because I am not 'educated' in the school of hard knocks?
posted on April 13, 2001 06:32:57 AM"I think it encourages people who may be very good in other areas of selling to suddenly try bookselling as if "any idiot can do it."
And so I suppose that Spaz would be the proof of that.....
(Sorry, but it seemed a good time to start to even the score)
posted on April 13, 2001 06:35:02 AM
Pay my dues? I've been selling antiques for 25 years and if I lived to be 200 I would still not have learned it all.
So I've only been selling books for 3 years.Does that mean I should never learn about them? I learn every year and threads like this give me tips and further learning.
Please don't take this as argumentative but people should never stop learning about whatever they sell. In fact people should never stop learning period.
I just don't get your point, Spaz. Do you think that everybody should not learn and just go on listing the title? I'm gonna sell books whether I know how to or not so it makes much more sense to me to learn how to do it better and have happier customers.
posted on April 13, 2001 06:49:27 AM
I don't spend a lot of time worrying about other sellers supposedly "hurting us all." I assume that there are shady, inexperienced, or lazy sellers in many categories. If I can deliver a product promptly and treat people with respect, my FB will show it, and maybe some people will buy from me because of that. Or,I simply have something they want.
Bookselling on ebay is a lot of work. There's a lot of mailing for not very much money. I don't think people will stick with it unless they are successful, and I doubt they'd be successful if they get a lot of bad feedback from customers. If they do stick with it, and get into serious buying to list, they will get their education. If they make poor choices, they will lose money and quit.
If a thread like this can help even one person avoid some pitfalls, I think it's a good thing.
I apologize. When you said "educated," I thought you were saying that you now had a thorough understanding of what's involved with bookselling in general.
I see now that you were referring to your specific situation. Here I will concede that this thread is perfect for the kind of selling you intend to do.
cdn,
Now, now. Let's not have any of that. Mine was a general comment, not directed at any one person.
posted on April 13, 2001 07:06:07 AM
"Threads like this appeal to folks who don't want to pay their dues, who want to know the shortcuts, " (spaz)
Hmmmmmmmm I've been buying, selling, and collecting books for almost 40 years. I have paid my dues and then some. I own thousands of books, some of them quite valuable. And I have feedback of almost 500 for booksales on eBay, with no neutrals or negatives, and only one return.
Wonder why this thread appeals to me so much . . . .
(spaz, your posts here are downright rude and condescending.)
posted on April 13, 2001 07:19:37 AM
I'm one of the "inexperienced amateurs" who started selling books a year ago on eBay. I also have learned a lot from this thread and make it a point to read all bookselling threads as well as the more generalized ones that I think might contribute to my education.
Because of threads like this I've learned how to properly identify BCE's and such. I've learned the difference between a serious book collector and a serious book reader, of which I fall into the latter category.
I think problems tend to crop up when a serious book collector is buying from a serious book reader who hasn't learned to distinguish those elements that need to be in the listing to satisfy the serious book collector. I learned some of these things myself when I used to receive emails from customers asking me what the number line reads, for example. Before that, I didn't put that info. in because that information doesn't concern me personally. I've learned to think outside my own little area of concern. I think it's helped my sales.
Some book listings are really stripped bare. I mean, let's assume you just want to read the darn thing and aren't concerned about number lines and such. You see a lousy picture or none at all, a description that basically says it's a hardback, but no synopsis of what the book is about. Now, unless you buy every book written by a particular author, don't most people open the book to read what's on the dust jacket?
Some of the books I list are collectible or appeal to those with focused interests (they might not care about edition so much as subject matter). But many appeal to the general reader who is just concerned with not having to pay $26 to $30 for a hardback. http://bjgrolle.freehomepage.com
posted on April 13, 2001 07:37:48 AM
Oh for heaven's sake. It's hardly rocket science.
A book is an object. To describe it properly, all that's needed is to learn the terminology...and to understand it well enough to apply it to your book, so as not to misinform potential buyers, and to supply the details they need to make their decision. I do believe most of us are capable of this. The ones that aren't will fail in short order.
The knowledge that comes from experience is what aids the seller in making money. Lack of this experience on the new bookseller's part can only be a benefit to the knowledgeable book dealer. Just think of all the potential scores.
posted on April 13, 2001 07:58:16 AM
From a bidder's standpoint...some of the best deals I have ever gotten have come from auctions listed by "inexperienced amateurs". Mostly because they failed to identify a book properly..ex..1st Edition, etc. About a year ago I found an entire lot of StarWars hardbacks(10)in Mint condition. I bidded accordingly and paid something like $30.00. Little did the seller know, I found that everyone of the books were 1st editions and a single title was selling on Ebay for an average of $20-25. As a matter of fact, I turned around and sold these same books later and remember getting $30.00 for ONE book and somewhere in the neighborhood of $160.00 for all after listing each book individually. No offense intended to the "true booksellers", but hey, I'm a Ebay seller too, and if I can make a profit on any item, I'm gonna sell it. IMHO, a good Ebay seller isn't just the one who is knowledgable in his field, but I believe a good Ebay seller is also one who can sell in a range of categories successfully. I am here to make money..and a lot of it..it is somewhat insulting for anyone to suggest you shouldn't be selling unless they have "spent the better part of their lives" educating themselves.
Thank you very much. My husband was all in favor of burning the lot of them (has been since the wedding), but I suppose I really do need to get rid of a few of them.
I don't think that I'll be any serious competition to any booksellers out there, as the only thing 'worth' anything (I think) is my complete works of Heinlein.
Selling off the books, of course, will give me room to buy more books and a pair of glasses to read them with. I'm not a book collector by any means of the word, I'm just an addict with a reading habit.
Thank you again for setting me straight, and please look for my dogeared fiction soon on ebay
posted on April 13, 2001 10:22:50 AM
I have to agree with everyone saying that this thread will only make us better sellers. When I first started selling on ebay about two years ago I was unloading tons of 80's rock CD's I'd acquired and generally drifted into bookselling by perusing my extensive shelves full of books for potentials. Then I read more threads or checked the ebay book board and learned more and more and more. Fortunately in the early days of selling I didn't make any egregious errors, probably because I'd been a book reader for so long, but without the many discussions and threads like this one it would have taken me a lot longer to learn what I know now, and I've only scratched the surface.
posted on April 13, 2001 10:42:29 AM
One more thing this thread and similar ones have shown me - there ARE still people out there who actually read
You'd be surprised how many people I know who never read for pleasure, they don't have a single book (except maybe a phone book or cookbook) in their homes. I've been an avid reader my entire life... got it from my mom, as did my sisters... my brothers, well that's another story
posted on April 13, 2001 11:41:24 AM
Spaz, I see the opposite from your statement, that professional sellers tend to be no better in general. Believe me, I have bought from many sellers who have B&M stores (through mail order, not necessarily on ebay)and what I receive is far less quality, and horrible service. The quality of the items I receive from amateurs is much better because most likely they bought the item for themselves and they have higher standards than a professional who just cares about profits.
The real difference lies in how much the seller can describe with accuracy. Professional sellers are well known for fudging here and there. That's why there are professional grading services for coins, cards and more, to eliminate prejudices.
posted on April 13, 2001 12:36:01 PM
As the originator of this thread, I have to assume that at least part of spazmodeus’s criticism was leveled at me, head patting included. It’s interesting how certain positive things on this board, as few as they are, cannot and will not be left alone. I’ve been a regular reader here for well over a year now (though only an infrequent contributor) and often, despite the presence of moderators, I find it appalling how generally negative the atmosphere is, how much contentiousness comes up in nearly every thread of any length, not to mention posturing, rudeness, and at times even slander. The most blatant form of this seems to occur in the topics specifically related to AuctionWatch and their various policies, but even here, in an innocent thread where dozens of contributors are generously offering help, there have already been three attempts to stir the pot.
My original intent was, given that many thousands of sellers list books on eBay and only few seem to succeed regularly in the attempt, to offer a few suggestions on how this process might become more profitable to them. It didn’t so much as enter my mind to recruit new booksellers or, my gosh, to offer a complete course in bookselling, let alone launch a career in television. My primary focus was on recommending a plan of action for locating and purchasing inventory. Obviously this isn’t the only important aspect of bookselling but it’s perhaps the biggest factor in spelling failure—I mean, if you can’t offer something desirable in your auctions, not much else matters, knowledge of books included. I find it amazing that the dissemination of useful information on acquiring saleable books could somehow be interpreted as having the effect of diluting professionalism in the trade. This is the same upside down thinking that contributes to the degradation of so much that’s good and wise in our society. I agree that spazmodeus’s remarks are exactly what many participants here don’t want to hear but I suspect it’s for reasons he may not even have divined. As for “nincompoops” who attempt to sell books online, I think there are two approaches you can take: you can either kick dirt in their faces and tell them to come back after they’ve spent an apprenticeship of umpteen years just loving books, or you can offer to help, however inconsequential or incomplete that help may be. If I’ve been guilty of recruiting incompetent booksellers into eBay’s family of professionals, I do sincerely apologize, but at this time I’m afraid that the very notion of this is a pill that’s too big to swallow. Meanwhile, I’d like to thank all who have contributed in a positive manner to this thread.
