posted on April 15, 2001 12:10:56 AM
Well, I realise I'm already tempered with a little skepticism but after looking around for just a few seconds I started seeing troubles immediately.
One thing occured to me that kind of sucks but I guess it's inevitable. I've spent a couple months now compiling a list of catagory numbers. Ever since the dual catagory scheme came along, which is the most useful feature they've come up with in years, I have found it easiest to double catagorize by entering the catagory by number in the sell item page. Needless to say, there goes two months of compliling for nothing.
I checked that "Hardware, Furniture...." catagory to see what other things they threw in there that stretch the imagination, and you know what the first thing I found was?, that along with a host of items that I wouldn't expect to be there, I found that if you actually had HARDWARE to sell, there wasn't even a catagory for it there!! It would likely have to be listed under the "Other Furniture Items" subcatagory. How can you begin a main catagory name with an item that there isn't even a subcatagory for!
I think its going to take me while to settle into this new layout.
posted on April 15, 2001 09:19:33 AM
Does anyone know if you have to use a certain category now when you list an item? I don't really like it that ebay can move your listings from one category to another as some people are saying.
Now when I really think about it I am also wondering what big advantage it is to sellers to have the categories narrowed down so much.
I prefer to list certain items "all over the map" and hope that someone will find my item and bid on it, thinking it is the only one in the world.
If I use a German Shepherd dog as an example of something I may sell I could have put it in Antiques, or Porcelain and Pottery, or Decorative or Figurines or metalware, etc. etc. Now by listing it in it's very own category I am in direct competition with every other seller who is listing one and buyers see them all at once. This makes a competitive market even more so.
So now when I think about it I don't really want an "Eggcup" category. When I choose to sell mine I would prefer to list them in all the categories I can possibly think of.
posted on April 15, 2001 09:24:48 AM
Didn't like the new collectibles category at all. Maybe in time. Too hard to identify what are pop culture items. Redefining language again. Ebonics is next. Wow -You go ebay!
No, you do not. If you list something as obvious as a power drill, under Beanie Babies, and someone complains, eBay will spank you and/or end the auction. At least that's what SH told me when I asked.
IMO the advantage to have the categories narrowed down is that it makes shopping much more user friendly for new users, and in many cases even for the long time users.
I was looking at the Cookie Jar category yesterday & see that they've split it up between Pre 1960, and Post 1960. IMO that's great! That category had become so damn bloated with modern made crap that the average shopper would have to spend an hour or two just wading through the GGG listings each day.
That's not to say that some azzwipes won't list their modern made piece of crap in the pre 1960 category in hopes of getting more hits, but I think most sellers that pull a stunt like that will soon find out it will backfire on them.
posted on April 16, 2001 10:23:32 AM
reddeer - good point about years down the road.
I guess our major objection is providing a better system for growth - both for us (buyers and sellers) and eBay.
Had they reversed their fee structure, higher on the FVF and lower on the listing - I believed they'd probably be going up rather than down over the past couple of months.
The breakdown of categories (which I must agree is necessary) becomes another avenue for revenue.
For us (collectibles & antiques) we've put a budget cap on the fees. Stop at a certain point.
But, the new categories begin to inhibit the listings further.
posted on April 16, 2001 12:54:39 PM
Reddeer: I am sorry I wasn't clear in what I was trying to say. What I think would be useful is a separate cgi for categories *only*.
For example a page listing the categories headings with a search option to find which category, (or categories) and the sub-categories, if there are any. So I could type in for example Boy Scout and have Historical Memorabilia>Boy Scouts appear.
My problem is trying to figure out:
1) If there is a specific sub-category.
2) Which category the sub-categories may be in.
3) Generally what the categories and sub-cateogories are in each category heading.
For example: Textiles can be listed in Art and Antiques and Collectables, and, (I believe), crafts and sewing. I would like to be able to type in textiles and have a list of all of the possible categories appear on the screen, along with a list of the sub categories.
Or dog or cat and have all of the possibles appear.
My Boy Scout example is good in that I would probably find Boy Scouts eventually, but I don't associate Boy Scouts with Historical Memorabilia and would wade through countess categories until I found it. Or, I would not find it and reach the conclusion that there is no sub-category, and list in the wrong category. ( I still can't figure out why it was moved from Fraternal Organizations).
Another alternative is to have all of the categories and sub-categories on one page and do a "Find On Page". I have tried this and sometimes it works, but most often it doesn't. I know it would be a huge page but it could be helpful.
Often what I do is a Description Search to see if any other of the same objects are listed. If I find one, I look at the page to see the category and if there is a sub category. I have often found specific sub-categories I didn't know existed. But this method is another time eater, and royal pain in the butt.
With the new categories in Collectables I am even more frustrated. Anyway this is the point I was trying to make. I suppose there must be a rhyme and reason for the category designations, but for whatever reason I can't follow it.
I was discussing this very idea with my husband last night. Such a Search capability would be wonderful, and far less time consuming than my current method. That is...search an item and click on bunches of hits until I find as many useful categories and sub-categories as possible. A giant pain.
And wouldn't it be great for new buyers?! They must be overwhelmed when they first try to find an item. I wonder how many of them just give up in dismay and leave?
Helping newbies to actually browse categories would certainly up the impulse buying that's been sadly lacking since the huge growth of eBay.
My main concern is that new users [buyers] can find them.
I sent this off to the Collectibles Category Manager today.
Yesterday I was talking to my neighbor who had never been on eBay before.
She's not very net savvy, and had a difficult time finding certain items due to the fact that she didn't realize that the Main
categories had numerous sub categories.
I went and had a look at the two main windows that a new user would likely come in on eBay, and I can see what happened.
1. If you enter eBay via the eBay Home Page, then click on the Collectibles link,
you are taken to a page with all the Categories listed at the top, and the numerous sub categories listed further down the page.
Even with cable access this page takes close to 10 seconds to load? Here's where I see the problem with the layout of that
page.
A new user might not realize that the Main categories have numerous sub categories? There is a BIG space between the
Category listings at the top, and the sub categories listed below. In that space is Related Categories, Themes, and Featured
Items. The sub categories can be easy to miss if you didn't realize this page was so large?
Perhaps if just below the Category header, [at the top of the page] a line such as:
"Please scroll down this page for the complete sub category listings" was added, it would solve this problem?
This may seem like basic Internet 101 to users like you & I, but to a new user it could be a big help?
2. When entering eBay via the Browse page, the sub categories are once again hidden from view. I think that if you were to
add something along the lines of:
"Please click on the main Category heading to view all sub categories listed under each main category" that it would also help
the new users find what they are looking for.
These statements should fall directly below the main highlighted "Categories" headers on both pages. Some place where only
Mr. Magoo could miss them.
I'm more concerned with the MAIN search feature working.
Yes, what Smw suggested sounds good on paper, but this is eBay we're talking about here.
I personally think that if the main hub pages were a bit easier to navigate [or at least it was CLEAR as a bell that more sub categories existed] that we wouldn't need a category search.
Dog & cat items can be found in almost every category/sub category.
As a seller I still use the Search feature to decide where certain items are best suited, but I go by the number of bids & the $ amounts.
posted on April 16, 2001 02:43:25 PM
Ya, as I said above, that's the way I do it too. Depending on the item though, it can take for blankingever. Considering the large bucks eBay is making, I don't think making the site work is too much to ask. Nor should instituting a new Search be horrifying to contemplate.
But, you're right. We do have to consider the sorry realities.
posted on April 16, 2001 03:33:40 PM
Reddeer and Toke: Sorry I haven't read your replies sooner. I was finishing my taxes. My hand went numb when I had to write the check and the blood is just starting to flow again......
However, thanks, at least I know it isn't just me. But that doesn't make it any the less frustrating for anyone. In a perfect world eBay would have a cgi for categories, that would even work! "But this is eBay we are talking about here", is very true. My expectations of eBay are that on a good day the site is up for 12 of 24 hours.
I suspect that Reddeer is right, (he usually is), and eBay categories are designed for buyer ease, not sellers.
I tried to looked at the categories from a buyers perspective and the list is daunting, with or without knowing that the sub-categories can go 3 or 4 levels deep. I like the suggestion to have disclaimer information on the top of the page to let buyers know that the viewable list is the tip of the iceberg.
All in all, I don't think eBay would even consider a cgi for categories unless and until enough buyers complain that they can't find anything, and they are overwhelmed with junk trying to do a title or description search. I think sellers will just have to plod along using whatever works for themselves to try to find an appropriate category.
(Toke, maybe one of the reasons eBay can get by with rotten service *is* because a lot of sellers have such low expectations of it. But that is another topic..)
posted on April 17, 2001 08:30:13 AM
I just found this post on an eBay board, and I think it helps illustrate what I've been saying.
.............................................
The new collectors area so called is not an improvement at all I uesed to search e-bay's military dept. by clicking on just
what I was searching for ...now I have to look at thousands of military items from other countries and weed through it, I
dont have those hours to spare I would like a "US" section only...why did you change that? please reinstall that option and
keep it "US" only ...my daughter and I collect military medals/ribbons there is a section for "US" only in WWII, but hey we
fought more wars then that...make a section for "us medals and ribbons only" boy that would save tons of time...give the
buyer and seller there own place and put Foreign medal in there own space giving each buyer a searchable area that is
atleast manageable...gosh ...we could go to collectables, then "US" and do a search on "medals" or "medal" and have a few
hundred choices, now we have a few thousand and most of that is not even close to what we are looking for ...please
change it back...until then, I'll buy at "Yahoo auctions" only for ease of use and time savings.
............................................
Here's a buyer that wants a specific sub category to search in due to the time it takes to wade through thousands of items that he may not be interested in.
From what I heard yesterday, there are going to be more sub categories added in the near future, so he may get his wish?
posted on April 17, 2001 09:04:43 AM
aaarrgghhhhh. I haven't had time to list lately and this week-end was happily writing descriptions via mister lister. (almost everything I list is in the collectible categories) After sending, my screen said a new version was available. I downloaded it and now I can't find anything. They've stuck things in weird places. I'm listing some really old shot glasses and they are under kitchen ware. With the search not always working, those that purchase this kind of item usually do not scan the kitchenware section. Of course I only like change when I initiate it, so in time I will get used to it. However, it's not me that I should be concerned about, but prospective bidders who may get tired of wading through sections and more sections of titles.
posted on April 17, 2001 01:58:40 PM
A BIG thumbs down!!!
I really hate it when they do away with a category and just place your already listed items where they please(ie; souvenirs is gone....thgey stuck it all under worlds fair).
posted on April 17, 2001 06:48:01 PM
...I just have to point this one out-everytime I see it, it just kills me:
Other Women's Clothing
(maybe it's just me)
but seriously, some of the new catagories will make it easier to pigeonhole an item, while I have already found some of them more difficult to 'correctly' place an item...
posted on April 17, 2001 07:37:19 PM
Well, I've had some time to look around the new collectables architecture and while there are a few appropriate changes, I think overall it's a really poor job of reorganization. I find where many popular items are placed under their upper level headings and combined at lower levels are ambiguous and difficult to fathom. I had to really stretch my imagination to locate some.
I think I can safely say, in thinking of how I will be adapting to this new scheme, that the former system was much freindlier and far more sensible. I think the best solution would have been to perhaps keep all the catagories they already had, distribute them among the new headings as was logical, along with any new changes and new catagories, and then make small monitored changes over a period of time, starting with the most controversial catagories. But the important thing would be to at first include EVERY catagory that now exists, and find a new place for it among the changes before they start to assess what needs to be eliminated or combined. I think this would have greatly helped the sellers (and established buyers!) with this transition in both their time , economy, and appreciation to ebay. They would have still had their favorite, established haunts while at the same time having the time to get accustomed to their new top headings before further changes were made. The same for buyers, many whom I'm sure are now finding items that were formerly in one or two steady places, and now having to relocate these items in new and perhaps unfamiliar or unlikely spots.
Instead they butchered it, made it curious, to say the least, and instituted it with out so much as an announcement on the board. Good job eBay, I wouldn't have expected any better from you.
Newbies have to learn to navigate the site no matter what its like. They never knew how it was, so to an extent it makes no difference how it's divided. I don't really see it as any easier for a newbie than it was, except that the new page loads faster. As a matter of fact, I've been involved in collectables for almost 20 years and I really had to use my imagination to understand what a transistor radio is doing in the Hardware, Furniture & fixtures catagory! And as I pointed out earlier, there isn't even a hardware subcatagory, so to find actual hardware, if thats what your looking for, you would naturally go right to this catagory and then be baffled that you couldn't find just it without having to explore for where they "stuck" it. So if it's that bizarre for me, how is it supposed to be any easier for a newbie who perhaps is not only new to computers but collectables as well.
posted on April 17, 2001 09:51:52 PM
Maybe I missed the announcement but.. Mr. Lister doesn't contain all the new categories. So, with that in mind if ebay was serious about containing itself and bettering the site to a degree they would notify users that the new categories in Collectibles invokes the download of the new Mr Lister. *Someone tell Jerry...at ebay.
posted on April 18, 2001 01:34:53 AM
Well, like my pappy always said "if it aint broken, then dont fix it". What was wrong with the old way, now I have to figure out all the new categories all over again. Darn
posted on April 18, 2001 08:09:52 AM
Reddeer: I have finally plowed though the new categories. I now have an opinion:
Gracie Allen is alive and well and working at eBay in charge of categories. She works long days and listens to an old radio tape of Abbott and Costello doing their Who's On First routine for inspiration.
I'm not sure exactly who was behind the design of this new "look", but the idea was to have the main Categories "above the fold".
[at least that's what I was told]
My understanding of "above the fold" meant having the main categories showing up front, and then cramming everything under the sun into sub categories.
The reality is that it's almost impossible to give each & every collectible their own main category. The list would be endless, and I'm not sure if it would help or hinder new users? My guess is the latter.
I think in time both buyers & sellers will get used to the new categories & sub categories, at least I hope so.
FYI - There's more new sub categories coming in the near future. Stay tuned!
posted on April 18, 2001 11:52:09 AM
Helprin-
ROTFLMAO - that's so funny! Would that category be just for clothing found in backs of cars, etc? (If I'm not careful, this could turn into another used panties thread).
That subcategory could definitely use a bit more punctuation.
