posted on May 11, 2001 09:42:44 AM
Peterdavis: The emails links do after a fashion take users off of the site. Email links allows direct contact between the seller and potential buyers without being filtered in some way through the eBay system.
eBay wants all users, both buyers and sellers to either send messages through the Ask Seller A Question link, or by entering your user id and pass to get an email addy.
Don't think for a moment that eBay doesn't keep back ups and records of each users ASAQ messages and requests for email addys. The less direct contact eBay allows between buyers and sellers the less possibility that deals can be made off of eBay, without eBay getting their cut. eBay is real big on fee avoidance. Ebay is trying to cover all of the bases to enforce its fee avoidance policy, which includes trying to control all communication between sellers and buyers.
I have never seen the stats, but I am sure there is bean counter who works for eBay who regularly submits reports of estimates of how much eBay is losing in fees to off eBay deals, and direct buying from view page links to web sites.
You're right on the money. Last year I was discussing this topic [revenue leaks] with a friend who was in touch with eBay on almost a daily basis, and he was told straight out by the PTB that they were VERY concerned about the loss of revenue from off site transactions. Revenue leaks via off site transactions has been a sore spot with eBay for years.
This is just one more method that will help prevent the revenue leaks.
posted on May 11, 2001 11:41:16 AM
I wish I could understand the reasoning behind no email links. I need about 3 more months of eBay's services and then it won't matter.
If you throw a frog in boiling water it will jump out, the trick is to put the frog in cool water and then bring it to a boil slowly. The frog will accept the change till he is cooked.
posted on May 11, 2001 11:59:24 AM
It truly is stupid, as I still get offers to buy directly via the new online "ask a seller a question" form. More lately than before I added my email link, and the offers NEVER come directly through my email link.
posted on May 11, 2001 12:52:13 PM
Hi Reddeer. You may want to think about getting another user ID that is also your email address if you don't already have one. I signed up for a new ID a few months ago when the issue was first raised about not allowing email links. There was some confusion at that time about whether new ID's could contain an email address and I was unable to sign up with one because the eBay form would not accept the @ symbol. I signed up instead with XXX.myrealbox.com and after waiting for 30 days I was able to change it to [email protected]. I have NO IDEA why. They may now allow you to sign up with an email address without having to take the extra step. BTW, I didn't have to register a credit card to use myrealbox.com so eBay doesn't seem to realize it's a free email service yet.
I've also been thinking about another way to possibly by-pass these absurd linking rules by using copyright info at the bottom of your auction listing page which incorporates your website address or email address. It's going to give me great pleasure to try to find other ways to foil GREEDBAY. LOL
posted on May 11, 2001 01:17:49 PM
Hi, Reddeer. Thanks for posting this info. I agree that collectibles, etc. made eBay a household word, and that buyers are looking for a good deal. I'm selling my stuff at less than wholesale prices. I don't believe eBay buyers can be weaned from the great deals offered by Mom and Pop. I don't think buyers want retail items. I recently purchased 50 pieces of a closeout software item that was new last year, $29.95 list. I can't give it away for more than $9.99. eBay buyers will just not go for this change.
Regarding the links, it is good to know that eBay has given explicit permission to link from the About Me page. (At least for now.) I do make a point of directing customers to my About Me page. It just rolled over 5000 hits and I'm going to start using it as a marketing tool even more in the future.
Let's face it. eBay is playing hardball. Don't kid yourselves about that. I understand their position about off-site sales, but I also understand that they are steamrolling over the little sellers. A few weeks ago, I began a Listbot mailing list. I include a link to the mailing list from my home page at www.gratefuldad.com and also in every EOA notice I send to customers. I've already had 10 people sign up in just a couple of weeks. If this keeps up, I can expect hundreds of mailing list recipients within the next year. My mailer (which I haven't sent out yet) will contain links to free software, auction news, and new product announcements.
I feel eBay has my sales in a choke hold, and the wise thing to do is widen my client base. Anyone who's interested in starting a mailing list can do so at listbot.com. Add a few freebies to your list and you'll get plenty of interested customers signing up.
It may be true that a couple of pieces of real estate or fancy cars sold through eBay bring in more money, but what percentage of eBay buyers are looking for that? Last year, the word eBay was synonymous with "beanie baby." If eBay does an about-face, many MANY buyers will be looking for a new home. GratefulDad
posted on May 11, 2001 01:36:09 PM
For those of you who think eBay buyers will not support retail, I can only say that retail items now have over 50% of the market on eBay.
For those who think selling "used" items will be the way to "roll" with the punches, better look at the competition more closely.
Many of the "retailers" coming to eBay are selling "used/returned", distressed, and "overstock" items.
As far as "personal" service and extras from small sellers, check out USPS sales on eBay, customer service, and neg FBs- not to mention very high shipping charges ! Then look at the flurry of bidding for their items.
Another aspect for small sellers to consider is even if you're not selling competing goods, your are competing for eyeballs and disposable income of buyers.
eBay is becomming like a large retail store, with large vendors having the floor space and small sellers being the bubble gum and novelities at the check out counter.
posted on May 11, 2001 02:00:34 PM
"Anyone who finds eBay's new policies are unfavorable to your business needs to start thinking about weaning themselves from eBay."
That is exactly right, but, people being people would prefer to "talk the talk" instead of "walk the walk". It's the old "I'll do it if you do it" syndrome.
Just lately in Canada there has been a real major "underground" campaign to encourage Canadians to stop buying gasoline from PetroCan and Esso. They idea is that if enough people do this, the price of gasoline will have to come down. There are enough smaller distibutors all over the country to keep every one filled up without having to go out of their way.
It won't work if we just talk about it.
It won't work if only some of us do it.
And, it won't work if we only do it for a week or so until our anger wears off.
Same as eBay folks.
Same as quitting smoking.
If you want results, you have to DO something
So, go for it. Even is everyone who posted a concern on this thread were to withdraw all of their auctions right now and NOT GO BACK, eBay could feel the first ripple.
posted on May 11, 2001 02:10:09 PMAnother aspect for small sellers to consider is even if you're not selling competing goods, your are competing for eyeballs and disposable income of buyers.
I am a collector as well as a seller in the category of my particular interest. Speaking as a collector (and a typical one, I believe), it wouldn't matter if every item from every business on the planet was available on eBay. I'd still be buying items for my collection. Disposable income is what's left over after I spend money on my collection.
eBay is becomming like a large retail store, with large vendors having the floor space and small sellers being the bubble gum and novelities at the check out counter.
Being that everything is online, I'm not sure why this would matter. You've only got to click to get anywhere- it's not like having to walk to the back of a forty acre warehouse store.
posted on May 11, 2001 02:25:25 PM
I think we misinterpret exactly what eBay is doing. eBay doesn't want one seller to leave eBay. Remember, eBay gets a listing fee whether you sell your item or not.
It is the market forces that will cause small sellers problems.
eBay will not send an email asking you to stop selling on eBay. Listing fees, FVFs, and declining sales will cause you to leave.
Look at it as this type of situation : Sellers at eBay have been advertising in classified ads at a newspaper whose circulation has grown greatly. This newspaper is now attracting the interests of big retailers that want to advertise too.
Now what should be the advantage of the iternet and servers is that when adding more sellers and subscribers you do not have the costs that you would at a newspaper. BUT, you still have the competition for the buyers eyeballs in that newspaper.
Now, if everything worked on the internet as it should, as listings on eBay grew, listing fees should remain stable or drop, but they didn't. eBay is going to leverage its popularity just as newspapers do. It costs a lot more to advertise in USA Today or the Wall Street Journal than your local newspaper - yet paper and ink cost the same. As the larger retailers come on board, eBay can be bolder in raising fees as these new sellers bring in more revenue and eBay is the only game in town.
Mrpotatohead- if you think eBay can't bury certain auction listings with a few tweaks of the site- you should see what Amazon did to their auctions.
[ edited by reamond on May 11, 2001 02:29 PM ]
posted on May 11, 2001 02:44:43 PM
Yes, I don't think that placement alone will be enough to discourage sellers. Increased listing fees will drive the small sellers out. It's easier to cough up $2 to sell a $100 item than a $10 item.
Regarding retail items, there's Half.com. I doubt Levis will be selling their jeans for $20 each on eBay. It's too much work and little profit. They can liquidate their closeout items through their own brick and mortar stores.
Retail sales is eBay's pie in the sky and they are succeeding with Half.com. But just look at what eBay has done lately. Fine auctions, cars and real estate (not retail) on the core site. eBay is walking a tightrope between big ticket items, and still catering to small sellers who bring in the bulk of the customers. They know they can't simply close the doors on small sellers. There would be an overnight exodus to Yahoo or another site and eBay would drop to number 2.
My guess is that eBay will keep nickle-and-diming sellers until only the higher-priced items remain. By then there will be another site willing to take up the slack for $10 items like beanies, trading cards and software. Online auctions are too popular. They won't disappear overnight.
posted on May 11, 2001 03:12:27 PM
Twinsoft- I think BIN and fixed price formats may eclipse the auction format due to popularity and the increasing dominance of retail goods. While some people still get excited by "bidding" I think the majority would like to cut to the chase with fixed pricing and BIN and get the transaction completed.
Supporting a fixed price format will also be much less costly to maintain for eBay too.
Celebrityskin- The 50% figure is for gross sales in dollars, so the painting would be the big dog, and what eBay would tailor the site to.
[ edited by reamond on May 11, 2001 03:16 PM ]
posted on May 11, 2001 03:20:48 PM
If 50% of ebay sales are "practical items" that leaves them still insignificant in such markets. Look at your local shopping - what percent is practical? I think a single typical mall sells more clothing than all of ebay, and most of those ebay sales are closer to thift store buying than retail.
online can displace mail order for people who, for whatever reason, can't go shopping, but most people are unlikely to turn there for their clothing, much less their housewares, etc...
Many "practical" items, when at all present at all on ebay, realize prices lower than B&M clearance racks or liquidation sales. That's not going to attract much retailing.
posted on May 11, 2001 03:46:03 PM
Reamond, I think there is a place for BIN and fixed-price formats. I successfully used BIN last week on a couple of items. Opening bid of $16.99, BIN of $19.99. The majority of bidders bought the item outright at $19.99.
(That doesn't mean that BIN works, necessarily. I let a couple of auctions run through, and they closed around $50. Needless to say, I upped the BIN!)
I agree that often bidders want to cut to the chase, but in my opinion the overriding factor is the final cost to the consumer. As always, eBay buyers want to get something for nothing. That is the excitement of auctions. Not dickering all week, and then finally paying close to retail, certainly. But the lure of a $1 opening bid is hard to resist for many buyers.
There is room for all types of formats on eBay. I may be old fashioned, but auctions built eBay. Fixed price may be convenient, but it doesn't have the lure of finding that rare collectible at bargain-basement prices. Why would eBay have any more success at fixed-price retail sales than, say, Toys.com, which went belly-up recently?
Regarding the new links policy, I have noticed many of my competitors placing huge banners in their ads to their direct-sales sites. If it were only one person or two doing this, it wouldn't be so bad. But it's become standard practice, and big-time sellers are scooping up thousands of potential bidders. I think no email links is going a little too far, though. How long can eBay maintain they are "only a venue" when they continually limit the content of sellers' View Item pages? eBay isn't even trying to pretend this is about spam any more.
posted on May 11, 2001 04:10:01 PM
Twinsoft- I must be the unlucky exception to the $1 bargain deal, I never get a good price !
With collectables I can see the auction format as absolutely necessary to find the strike price, but I don't know if eBay will continue to support the format. Follow the money.
While it is certainly true that the collectable sellers brought the buyers to eBay, it is not how eBay is leveraging those buyers. eBay is leveraging these buyers to retailers, and it appears to be successful.
posted on May 11, 2001 04:34:04 PM
Reamond, yes, that's true too. Interesting to see how this all plays out. I don't really follow all the numbers, but what I omitted from my post above is that eBay's retail success seems to be largely through Half.com. Yes, they are leveraging the members, especially buyers by conducting a dedicated spam campaign. Half.com links and hoopla on every page, and Half.com spam added to every outgoing email, including EOA notices. Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't eBay purposely reset everyone's email preferences just so they could get those spam mails out? And sellers must go where the buyers are.
Half.com appears to be working, but I think it's too soon to tell if this is just a flash in the pan. As you said, some items (like books, video, software) are suited to the fixed-price format. Other types of items aren't. One thing's for sure, that fixed-price sales aren't as fun as auctions. I don't think we've seen the last of online auctions.
No doubt eBay has their best minds working on the problem of how to keep as many buyers and sellers under their thumb as possible, while still jacking up the prices (like new icons or required ID verification). Everybody jokes about the "it's only a dollar" fiasco of a couple years ago, but that boycott did hurt eBay. eBay will keep their customers as long as possible, if only to prevent another site from becoming established.
posted on May 11, 2001 05:13:56 PM
Here are my solutions to the link policy. I have submitted a template of what I did to eBay for preapproval. Here it is:
http://www.hci.net/~drexelantiques/listing.html
What I have done is ad a Me page link. Addeded some to my Me page. Since I host my own pictures, am an adding 3rd party credit link, "Hosting courtesy of www.drexelantiques.com" with the url clickable. I also built an auction gallery, and have a link to that. The only thing wquestionable is the hosting credit link, but if they are going to argue our eBay business is seperate from out other businesses, they can't have it both ways. and drexelantiques on eBay is a different entity from www.drexelantiques.com. While I admit this is pushing the envelope, I think it is within policy. In fact I think I may get more hits this way than when I was running a graphical link to my site.
They may now allow you to sign up with an email address without having to take the extra step. BTW, I didn't have to register a credit card to use myrealbox.com so eBay doesn't seem to realize it's a free email service yet. 
