Valleygirl
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posted on May 15, 2001 02:27:53 PM
Last month I won an ebay auction for an item which arrived smashed. Seller says "sorry, no insurance, all sales final". However, insurance would not have helped me in this case due to the extremely poor packing by the seller.
The larger piece of this heavy, fragile item (2 pieces)was wrapped in black trashbags and paper towels and was placed upside down in the box. It is a "V" shape with the small part against the bottom of the box with no packing between the item and the box. Then a lot of paper towels and toilet paper rolls were placed between the larger piece on the botton and the smaller piece (of the two) on the top. The item that was smashed was the "V" shape of the larger piece that was placed upside down part which was against the bottom of the box.
Seller refuses refund, and since I paid via Billpoint, I started the chargeback process. I used a DEBIT card to pay Billpoint. Guess what? My credit union REFUSES to put through the chargeback because 1) they don't deal with ebay, and 2) they say that debit cards don't have the same chargeback rights as credit cards.
Now I am stuck with a broken widget, I'm out almost $100. and no "rights". Billpoint won't help because my credit union MUST initiate the chargeback and my credit union won't help because I used a debit card. I can't file an ebay complaint because they specifically refuse to become involved when the item is damaged in transit.
I guess the only thing I can do is leave a neg, which is small consolation for an unethical seller, lousy banking system, and being out $100.
The lesson I learned here is DO NOT USE A DEBIT CARD thinking you have all the rights of a credit card.
Not my name on ebay.
[ edited by Valleygirl on May 15, 2001 02:29 PM ]
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mlriche
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posted on May 15, 2001 02:33:40 PM
What a hard lesson to learn! Debit cards are very different from credit cards. Debit cards work more like you writing a personal check, only they clear your account immediately, so a bank has nothing to put a "Stop payment" against. Also, you have little or no protection against fraudulent use of a debit card. With a credit card, you're only responsible for the first $50 of unauthorized charges. With a debit card, you're responsible until your bank can get the message to the computer that the card is cancelled - guess what happens if it's a weekend!
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skip555
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posted on May 15, 2001 02:35:51 PM
IF it was a 100.00 breakable item I sure would have spent 1.10 for insurance.
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Valleygirl
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posted on May 15, 2001 02:38:16 PM
Insurance would not have helped me. The PO would have denied the claim due to poor packing. I've already shown it to PO employees.
Not my name on ebay.
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valeriet
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posted on May 15, 2001 02:42:02 PM
I have done chargebacks on debit card purchases. Call the phone number on the back of the card. Call VISA, not the credit union. Change banks.
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http://www.valeriet.com
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Valleygirl
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posted on May 15, 2001 02:43:46 PM
No phone number on back of card.
Not my name on ebay.
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valeriet
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posted on May 15, 2001 02:44:41 PM
Also I believe Ebay has an insurance program with a $25 deductible. You might want to look into that.
Be sure to use your feedback option.
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Valleygirl
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posted on May 15, 2001 02:48:46 PM
eBay's insurance does not apply because the item was damaged in transit.
Not my name on ebay.
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mlriche
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posted on May 15, 2001 02:49:33 PM
Here's an article that gives a really brief description of benefits of credit card over debit card....<p>
<a href=http://acclaimcreditcards.hypermart.net/schra2.htm>Credit vs. Debit</a>
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Twelvepole
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posted on May 15, 2001 02:52:44 PM
Ebay does have an insurance program, for just such cases, but you have to take the initiative to start and you will lose $25 as a deductable.
Ain't Life Grand... 
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Twelvepole
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posted on May 15, 2001 02:54:21 PM
Valleygirl, you are pretty quick to point out what might not work, but have you tried?
Ain't Life Grand...
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fonze
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posted on May 15, 2001 02:56:54 PM
She's right. The eBay insurance won't work for broken items. It only covers if you got a fake Gucci purse etc. I don't think many people have recieved their money back that way.
Mel
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valeriet
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posted on May 15, 2001 02:57:14 PM
Oh well, I guess you ought to just give up and whine.
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http://www.valeriet.com
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Valleygirl
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posted on May 15, 2001 02:57:29 PM
Twelvepole, I've read the ebay rules. The insurance specifically says that they do NOT cover items damaged in transit.
Not my name on ebay.
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skip555
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posted on May 15, 2001 03:00:57 PM
I have never been involved in a insurance claim so I didn't realize they could deny for poor packing.
It looks like you may be able to file a claim with ebay though I just checked safe harbor and you can file for :Paying for an item and never receiving it or
Receiving an item that is less than what is described -- such as winning a solid gold necklace at auction but receiving a copper one instead.
So it seems like you can file a claim with ebay -25.00 deductible and im sure safe harbor will go after the seller.
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Valleygirl
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posted on May 15, 2001 03:02:31 PM
Valeriet and Twelvepole and others: I've spent the better part of two weeks doing all that has been suggested, I'm not whining, I'm asking if there has been anything I have overlooked.
Then venting because it just doesn't seem fair. I hope Valeriet that it doesn't happen to you. You might feel different.
Not my name on ebay.
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Valleygirl
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posted on May 15, 2001 03:09:11 PM
copied from eBay's fraud page:
eBay Fraud Protection does not apply if the shipping company has lost the package or if the item has been damaged in transit. If your package was lost or damaged in transit, please contact the shipping company for its reimbursement policy.
Not my name on ebay.
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keziak
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posted on May 15, 2001 03:14:17 PM
HI - back when I was buying depression glass, I was "crushed" when a set of 4 bowls arrived with two of them simply shattered into dust. I don't recall now who paid the insurance...doesn't seem like the sort of thing I would have paid for. But I do remember being at the P.O. and filling out the form. IMO, the fault was the seller's because the bowls were not double-boxed or protected in any particular way except placed in a box with bubble wrap. But the P.O. did pay.
This is a day late and a dollar short for you, though. Just leaving a Neg isn't much comfort.
keziak
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seyms
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posted on May 15, 2001 03:18:20 PM
Calmly email the seller and state that insurance would not have been paid due to the poor packing job. The damage occured due solely to the inadequate packing and to question herself how she would like this to be handled if the roles were reversed. IMO she simply doesn't want to give back $100 which she probably spent. If/when this approach is not successful neg the seller with a short factual statement. She probably will reply from embarrassment which will allow YOU to reply with another short factual remark. Heartfelt best wishes in this unfortunate situation.
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gs4
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posted on May 15, 2001 03:27:26 PM
Small claims court would be your best bet. You do not need a lawyer for that. They would have to show up for the court date or lose the case by default.
They would most likely settle with you. Look into it, can not hurt to try.
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jrb3
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posted on May 15, 2001 03:38:58 PM
FYI My Postal Manager states if the post office accepts insurance on a package they will pay the claim if it's damaged.
Joe B
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Libra63
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posted on May 15, 2001 03:44:08 PM
First thing you should have done was insure it, but since that isn't the case I as a seller would have insured it for you. I ask for insurance if the buyer is willing to pay I will collect it, but if the buyer doesn't want it I put it on. I as a seller would not have a $100.00 item leave my house without insurance knowing what the post office can do, but since it wasn't packaged right then I think the seller is responsible.
I think I would keep after her, but a negative is in order. Has she left a feedback for you yet? I sure hope she has...
Good Luck
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lowprofile
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posted on May 15, 2001 03:48:07 PM
Many People dont know this , but the Royal Bank's regular debit card includes a 90 day protection on all purchases. If you break it, gets lost, stolen they will refund you ..no deductable.
Only debit card in Canada that does this.
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Twelvepole
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posted on May 15, 2001 03:54:07 PM
Well valleygirl, your ONLY option then is to neg and move on...
Chalk this up as $100 learning experience and insist on insurance next time.
Ain't Life Grand...
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triplesnack
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posted on May 15, 2001 03:58:31 PM
I don't use debit cards for reasons others have mentioned, but valeriet has stated she has had success initiating chargebacks by going directly to Visa and not through the bank that has issued the card. If you can get them to do a chargeback, this would seem to me to be your cleanest solution.
If Visa's phone number is not on the back of your debit card, don't just shrug and give up, look elsewhere. Call your credit union and get the number, or call directory assistance.
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Zazzie
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posted on May 15, 2001 04:06:20 PM
Does your debit card have a Visa or Mastercard Logo on it??
and also demand to speak to the manager of the credit union...
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london4
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posted on May 15, 2001 04:18:37 PM
I agree with gs4. Tell the seller you will be filing with small claims court and see if that helps. If not, FILE and have her served. She probably won't show if she lives in another state and it sounds like a slam dunk. Collecting on a judgment is another matter, but she might be scared into refunding your money. Good luck!
[ edited by london4 on May 15, 2001 04:19 PM ]
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skip555
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posted on May 15, 2001 04:35:12 PM
there was a thread here a week or so ago dealing with small claims court
It varies from state to state but I recall one post saying it cost 130 to file in their state
So It dosen't sound like a verry good idea
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amy
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posted on May 15, 2001 04:42:51 PM
Its to bad the item arrived damaged.
You may be able to go the small claims route but you will have to show that the item was poorly packaged...otherwise it is just her word against yours that it was damaged because of her poor packing. Not purchasing insurance could work against you as a prudent person would have insured a $100 glass item that was going to be sent through the mail. Using the argument that the post office wouldn't have paid the claim anyways won't work in court because it is only your opinion that they wouldn't have paid. If you had bought the insurance and THEN the post office refused the claim you would have a much stronger case.
Also, if you had purchased insurance and the post office had refused the claim because of inadequate packing you might have had a stronger argument with the seller that she should be refunding your money.
Next time, insure! But, I am sorry that it was such an expensive lesson to learn 
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mildreds
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posted on May 15, 2001 04:45:13 PM
Not all post offices follow the rules the same. I have 2 branches close to me and I can get completely different answers at times for the same question..
Just depends on how informed the person at the window is
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