posted on May 22, 2001 06:36:58 AM
I am Not a clothing expert. But, I have been on both sides of this type of situation with other items.
I have received items that sellers swore up and down were in better condtion than what the items really were. In those cases it was obvious to me that the sellers missed the problems, or were trying to sluff off inferior probducts on me. Most of these sellers have made it right with me at no additional cost or loss of shipping charges. Other sellers stonewalled me and either refused to replace or refund or tried to stick me with shipping cost losses - these folks I no longer do business with and have added negative feedback unless their TOS clearly stated "sales final" or "will not refund shipping costs" or some other escape clause language (cases in which I usually do not bid or buy anymore).
I have sold items that either I missed alleged problems, or the buyer pulled a switch, or the items were damaged during shipping or damaged after the buyer received them. Now, my TOS state...
"*** RETURNS ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
- If you are unhappy with the item(s) purchased from us for any reason
you may return the item(s) to us within 10 days for a full purchase
price refund.
- Sorry, we DO NOT REFUND SHIPPING COSTS."
I have chosen this approach to weed out some of the riff raff. The fact is that I have always refunded shipping costs. but, these types of issue come up rarely. I usually side in favor of the buyer, even if I don't believe them.
I believe Square Trade is free if you come to an agreement without the use of a mediator. If a mediator is used, it costs $15 and the person who filed the complaint is supposed to pay it.
Feedback can be removed only if a mediator is brought in, but there's no guarantee it will be removed even then.
zoomin,
I used to get migraines and heard somewhere that they had something to do with the ratio of carbon monoxide/oxygen being wrong and to try breathing into a paper bag. It helped ease mine (a divorce cured them permanently).
In a previous post you asked:
"What happens from here? Do we just keep on responding to each other? Does someone go over the case and give their opinions on this? Just don't know what to do from here.."
You are currently in the Direct Negotiation stage of Dispute Resolution. This service will allow you and your buyer to work things out using our forms and secure servers independently--meaning no one at SquareTrade will become involved.
Should either of you decide that you have reached an impasse, you have one of 2 options:
1) close the case unresolved
2) choose to bring in a mediator who will work with each of you to help you come to a resolution. At this point you lose the option to see the other person's responses, so you will be actually communicating through the mediator. The charge to bring in a mediator is $15 total. (Usually the party who requests the mediator pays this fee, however, sometimes people split the fee.)
Please note that the mediator will work to find a mutually agreeable solution, he or she will not act as a judge in the case.
I hope this helps. If you have any more questions, please don't hesitate to ask--just post here or email me!
posted on May 22, 2001 11:41:52 AM
EG:
Did I lose all of my brain cells with that migraine or does this sound like a waste of time?
I think I lost the point somewhere along the line.
The wacko is just going to neg you anyway, isn't she?
I'm so confused!!!
pwolf:
LOL! The divorce helped ~ this was my first really bad migraine in about three years!
I've thought about stinking my head in the oven, but never a bag. I'll have to try that if it (poo-poo god forbid) happens again!
Valley:
Thanks for the thought ~ Imitrex is no fun for me ~ bad reaction to the self injections, pills don't work, nasal spray tastes too nasty (it makes me, ummm, woofkie.)
posted on May 22, 2001 12:27:12 PM
Zoomin: almost no one takes the shots anymore. What mg of pill do you take? I break a 50 in half because 50 is too harsh for me, then take the other half after an hour. Usually works. My husband, however, (adult onset, has catscan and mri scheduled) takes a 50, then another 50. My Dr told me 200 mg per episode. I won't try the nasal spray because the shots were too strong for me and I figured the spray was too.
My first Migraine Dr. was famous specialist in L.A. (actress Lisa Kudrow's father). I was at his doorstep the day imitrex was FDA approved.
Anyway ZOMIG works different than Imitrex. When imitrex didn't work for awhile I switched to Zomig, I liked it better, but eventually I switched back to Imitrex.
check out this web page, there are even newer drugs now. http://www.migraines.org/
Not my name on ebay.
>>>You are currently in the Direct Negotiation stage of Dispute Resolution. This service will allow you and your buyer to work things out using our forms and secure servers independently--meaning no one at SquareTrade will become involved.<<<
If the two people are going to work things out themselves what's the point in using your service? Seems redundant to me...
posted on May 22, 2001 01:48:22 PM
OK, maybe I am really stupid here but square trade costs $15. How much did she pay for the sweater? It probably is not much more than the Square Trade fee.
Forward everything to SafeHarbor, neg her, and move on.
posted on May 22, 2001 04:04:49 PM
Zoomin and other migrane sufferers--please get your hormones checked. I had migraines and headaches (headaches every single day and migranes 3x a month). Turned out to be a thyroid disease. I have not had a migraine since.
posted on May 22, 2001 05:36:27 PM
INVITE THE CUSTOMER TO THIS THREAD.
Once again we are only getting one side of this story, (and the Square Trade Rep basically "advertising" their services)
Executive girl clearly admits that the entire transaction is over $20.00.
Could the flaws in the button holes been missed when the seller looked it over? Could it be possible that taken close up, the flaws are exaggerated to make the buyers point?
To err is human???
But obviously, there is one seller on eBay that thinks that all buyers are wrong, and she couldn't possibly have missed a flaw in the buttonholes of a sweater. (not an uncommon problem in lightweight knit sweaters)
Ask yourself, WHY would a buyer go to all that trouble over a $20.00 transaction? The buyer in this case is also an eBay seller, so if the sweater didn't fit, or wasn't her style, WHY wouldn't she just put it up for sale? The suggestion that she put bleach on it, or ripped it with a seam ripper seams so far fetched and ludicrous, I can't believe that it has been suggested!!
Granted, good customer service sometimes mean you suck it up and take a loss on an item, but in the long run, you will always win. GOOD CUSTOMER SERVICE = RETURN CUSTOMERS.
Perhaps Executive Girl doesn't care if this customer returns, but she might care about future customers and a nasty neg is going to scare off a customer or two. The seller will never know of course, but may complain if sales are slow.
Like I said before, invite the buyer. Unless the seller in this case doesn't want us to hear the rest of the story.
As toke has also pointed out, this transaction was for UNDER $20.
Also, this item was NOT a "lightweight knit sweater". In fact, this was not a sweater at all.
SquareTrade is also not "advertising" here - they showed up to answer a QUESTION I had and they have been very helpful in assisting me.
But obviously, there is one seller on eBay that thinks that all buyers are wrong, and she couldn't possibly have missed a flaw in the buttonholes of a sweater.
Really? Who would that be? Surely you are not referring to me, since I am NOT *always* on the seller's side. I stick up for who I believe is RIGHT. Are you a seller on ebay? Or just a buyer? Because you seem to always stick up for the buyer.
GOOD CUSTOMER SERVICE = RETURN CUSTOMERS
Well, there's something we actually agree on! My repeat buyers are the best!
Oh, and next time you might want to get your facts straight before attempting to degrade someone.
posted on May 22, 2001 05:59:25 PM
toke:
(the nap sounds good to me, too!)
EG:
Didn't mean to derail you re:migraines. Sorry!
igolf:
Why, you ask? ummm, Why not?
A competitor? A returning wacko?
Neg retaliation? Who knows?
It takes all kinds.
in the long run, you will always win.
Not in RL.
(or, at least not in mine )
ARTICLE OF CLOTHING, not over $20.00 with shipping..
Invite the buyer executive girl.
I recall a thread some time ago in which the seller gave us high drama about a bidder who was OBVIOUSLY wrong, and when we got the other side of the story, the person who started the thread EDITED OUT all of her/his posts, when the buyer gave their side of the story..
posted on May 22, 2001 10:28:51 PM
Well goodness, Exec Girl, you have an interesting dilemma there and I suppose you probably knew even before you started the thread how you planned to handle this. You may have saved yourself $20 and defended your principles, but surely the amount of time you've expended on this thread probably has exceeded the value of the item? Not trying to be snippy, just making an observation.
posted on May 23, 2001 03:06:09 AM
Lisa_B: No, I did not know how I was going to handle this transaction before I posted here. The posters on this board gave me some very good advice and I even learned a few things on this thread.
And no, typing a few posts on this thread did not exceed $20. Didn't even exceed 25¢ worth of time (I'm a very fast typist ), but thanks for asking!
posted on May 23, 2001 05:41:39 AM
Good Morning EG!
Actually, I think the rest of us probably learned more than you did this time!
Thanks for sharing the Square Trade stuff.
You PICs, however, make me feel "photographically challenged".
(no more brain pain! yippee!!!!!!)
edit:
I would be happy to pay you for services rendered, what addy should I PayPal the quarter to?
teeheeheeheehee
[ edited by zoomin on May 23, 2001 05:43 AM ]
posted on May 23, 2001 06:44:24 AM
"If you cant afford to refund, you are in the wrong business.
If it is the principal of the thing, then you waste a lot of time and energy just to "win." Winning isn't everything. Sometimes you "win" by "losing." "
How does someone "win" by allowing someone to defraud them????
If you would have refunded this customer, that's your decision.
I choose NOT to. Not because I can't afford it, but because this customer DELIBERATELY ruined an item in order to get a refund.
And yes, I will not refund her because of the PRINCIPLE of the thing. Do not tell me that because of that, that I am in the wrong business. Just because someone does not do as YOU would do, does not make them wrong. You run your business as you see fit, and so will I.
posted on May 23, 2001 06:53:56 AMZoomin: So glad to hear your migraine is gone! Now let's hope it stays gone!
Not sure what you mean about my pics though! The pics are taken with a Sony Mavica and cropped with software from an old digital Polaroid camera called Photomax... makes it real easy to use!
Oh, and you gave more helpful info on this board about the call blocking stuff too.... so will you take a check? LOL
posted on May 23, 2001 07:57:03 AM
I'm with you, EG. I wouldn't let someone defraud me either, not if I could help it.
Something no one else mentioned: her threats to neg you if you don't refund (or whatever), is feedback extortion and you should turn her in to SafeHarbor for that alone. I don't know what the penalty is -- but it's still worth doing IMO. As for her threats to turn YOU in to SafeHarbor, I am pretty sure they don't get involved in such disputes, so those are just empty threats.
And by all means block her from bidding on anything else if you haven't already.
posted on May 23, 2001 08:43:32 AMClevergirl, eBay would not consider this scenario "feedback extortion." If the buyer feels she has a legitimate complaint, then she is certainly free to threaten negative feedback. eBay would certainly not get into the middle of a dispute like this.
eBay's "feedback extortion" policy is outdated right now, but examples given in the past are things like "sell it to me even though reserve has not been met or I'll neg you, or get all my friends to neg you" (that was of course before feedback became transaction-related).
posted on May 23, 2001 09:12:20 AM
EG & others..
A clarification...
I don't sweat the little stuff. You post "No returns"? Then stand by it and be done with it. No arguing is needed. "Sorry no refunds as posted in ad. Have a nice day."
Let her neg you and retaliate and move on.
Mail fraud for $20? USPS wont touch it. Lawyers wont touch it.
See, I am factoring all of the time and emotions that are wasted arguing, emailing, worrying, venting, feeling frustrated, following up, contacting Safe Harbor multiple times....
Just so someone can say "Nanny Nanny Boo Boo, I WON!!!" ?
Nah, life is too short and time is too precious. Better to spend the time listing new stuff!
Buyers like this get a kick out of complaining. They get a kick out of winning. The longer it drags out and the nastier it gets, the happier they are.
I submit that had you just zipped out a refund, the buyer would actually have been disappointed... no fight; no battle; no long involved story for them to tell to their long-suffering friends.
posted on May 23, 2001 09:28:26 AM
Ibuypaper
I agree, this is the post with the most.
Learn from it EG.
BTW, I doubt any bidder "deliberately" ruins items for a refund, seems more like she washed the item by stupid mistake or had an old one she would have swapped had you accepted refunds.
Spamming from square trade and the exoneration of your own policies without a real two sided debate (noting radio silence on inviting the bidder over) isn't very educational.
I think the best advice was on page one when Reddeer said "ignore" the person.
May be time to lock this drag a$$ thread up.
posted on May 23, 2001 12:12:34 PM
It does seem to be too much energy being wasted for a less than $20 deal here.
I believe Executive Girl does examine her clothing put up for auction and it seems she does a good job.
I also find it difficult to believe this buyer would ruin a piece of clothing when she could simply resell it if she didn't like it.
I also agree with several posters who said this damage could have been overlooked if the damage was the back of the buttonhole. I have had this happen with what appears to be similar fabric in clothing I have owned.
There isn't anything in this buyer's feedback to indicate she is in the habit of ruining an item to get a refund. Also, she has some nice items up for auction.
But lastly, while EG has shown a close up of three buttons on this piece of clothing, there happens to be a total of five buttons. It would have been advantageous for you to provide closeups of all 5 buttons.
But that aside, as strange as it may seem I do believe both the seller and buyer as to their beliefs in this weird scenario.
Lori
posted on May 23, 2001 01:10:08 PM
Hi outoftheblue,
You asked:
If the two people are going to work things out themselves what's the point in using your service? Seems redundant to me...
Short Answers (short to reduce migranes ):
1) The Direct Negotiation system forces both parties to focus on the issues and relevant facts instead of becoming emotional.
2) In the case that either party does decide to bring in a mediator, the mediator will have access to these records in order to become informed of the situation.
Reasoning behind Short Answers (in case its an off-migrane day ):
Direct Negotiation allows users to work things out for themselves, but you are guided in filling out forms with limited character spaces and clicking on a choice of radio buttons to:
1) Choose the Issue (I sent payment but didn't receive merchandise, Item not shipped as described..etc.)
2) Submit a Response (Merchandise shipped late, Merchandise shipped as described..etc)
3) Choose an Acceptable Resolution (I am willing to give a partial refund and let the buyer keep the merchandise, I am willing to give a full refund if the buyer returns the merchandise...etc.)
All of these responses and additional information provided by users on the forms, along with complete details about the transaction (the item number, email address of both parties, item value, item description..etc) are located on a Case Page, on a secure server, accessible with your SquareTrade UserName and Password.
)