posted on May 23, 2001 12:32:27 PM new
reamond~
ebay will make more off these big outfits in one month then they could make off of us in 10 years
I don't agree, we are the backbone of ebay, if the little guys could organize a 30 day strike(I know it would never happen), ebay would be dead, period. if you check out Sun Microsystems link from ebays front page it says that "450,000 new auctions are listed every 24 hours", my guess is they should know what the are talking about. if you counted every auction as a listing under 9.99 or .30 to list, that is over 4 million a month or 50 million a year just in listing fees at .30. If you throw in there the extra fees, closing fees, featured auctions, etc it's a huge amount of money, and all this long before the big boy thought that ebay was a viable tool for them.
big guys cost them less in time served? not really if every neg that the big boys have is a email and a problem to ebay that they have to answer and deal with, as I already pointed out they would cost them more time than most of the old powersellers, who use to be the big boys.
posted on May 23, 2001 12:53:20 PM new
if you go to ebays front page one of the first links at the bottom of the page is for elance, also they have a link in the top left hand corner under professional services, if your not familiar go and check them out. their sole reason for being is to "introduce" people like you and me, to the people that can help us build and promote e-business. Everything that elance stands for, and was created to do, and ebay is advertising on their own pages, is against the spirit of what ebay is doing now.
another link at the bottom is for estamp, their out of business, I tried calling on the phone today, to contact them about the software they claim to have on their web site that will allow you to ship through multiple carriers. Call on the phone you press all the right buttons your prompted to and then after waiting on hold for about 5 minutes it sounds like someone picks up the phone and then hags up. yep that's a company/link I want to have on the front page of my billion dollar company
posted on May 23, 2001 02:06:16 PM new
Sometimes I think we are simply fools to post all our workarounds and ideas for marketing our merch on this board.
Must be quite the little tutorial for eBay...keep them abreast of our every thought. Keep them advised on what we'll tolerate. I just read a post on another thread stating how willing that party would be to pay higher fees.
Am I paranoid...or are we nuts? A little of both, I'm afraid...
posted on May 23, 2001 02:25:52 PM new
The thoughts you just voiced have been perking in the back of this bran for quite a while now. AW IS a great ebay tutorial for its management team and has been for some time.
Just because you are paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you!
Must be quite the little tutorial for eBay...keep them abreast of our every thought. Keep them advised on what we'll tolerate.
Sometimes, you have to know when to keep your thoughts to yourself (or at least, not posted in a public place, for all the world to see). Not paranoid... prudent.
posted on May 23, 2001 02:33:16 PM new
No doubt eBay gets all kinds of tips on this board. Not only do they learn our tricks, but they also get an idea of just how far they can push. I imagine when powersellers get up on their hind legs, eBay does take notice. Wishful thinking, perhaps.
posted on May 23, 2001 03:05:21 PM new
Not to worry folks! It really doesn't matter at all what we say or don't say here or anywhere else! eBay already knows the most important thing.
posted on May 23, 2001 04:23:30 PM new
airguy- your math seems correct, but it doesn't apply to the situation.
Sun just stuck its toe in the eBay pond last year and had sales in the millions on eBay.
Sun alone generates far greater fvf than several thousand small sellers.
As eBay starts adding more large vendors, it will not take long to see small sellers revenue totally eclisped.
Remember, Meg wants revenues ramped up to $3 billion dollars a year. That is 6 times last years figure.
Now do you really think that 6 fold increase is going to come from small sellers ? No way.
If Meg meets the projection, that means for every $1 in revenue eBay gets from a small seller, they will get $5 from a large retailer. There is no way eBay will reach $3 billion in revenue from small sellers- I know it, eBay knows it, and the analysts know it. Now who do you think eBay will miss, the $1 revenue generator or the $5 revenue generator ? Who is easier to replace, a Sun or Wal-Mart or a few thousand of us ? Once eBay reaches $3 billion from these large vendors, they will not lose any sleep over even half of us leaving, as they know and will have proved that our revenue can be replaced quite easily with large vendors.
posted on May 23, 2001 06:25:52 PM new
the Sun Microsystems, and others to follow can't and wont make it happen for ebay. they would be foolish to think that large businesses are ever going to do any real business through their "venue". what is more likely to happen is for the big boys to sell some stuff on ebay, more than likely loss leader stuff like you see in the Wal-Mart Sunday ads to get you though the door then up sell them or sell them stuff they didn't know they needed.
Do you really think Wal-Mart, Kmart, Sun, compact, gateway, dell, or Ritz photo for that matter would need a link on their auction to get a buy to look at their web sites? NO and ebay knows that. If anyone clicks on an auction that is being sold by a big business they know all they have to do is do a search on say yahoo and wham there you go.
if Sun made all these millions in sales through ebay(not counting the equipment they sold to ebay) where are the numbers? does anyone know of any other names they might have been selling under?
it is easier to get one dollar from a hundred people than 100 dollars from one person, the same applies here and that is why they have a powerseller program, they have value to the company and they wanted to protect their investment, or at least that's the way it was.
there is no way that ebay will ever reach the projections that meg has made the way it stands now, I think we can all agree on that one, but I think it is more likely to come form spin offs like half.com than large companies hawking their stuff on ebay.
found another seller that couldn't qualify for the powerseller program, Disney over 3% negs. also it's pretty funny that the big companies all have private feedback, something that ebay says you should try to avoid.
posted on May 23, 2001 06:53:18 PM new
"it is easier to get one dollar from a hundred people than 100 dollars from one person"
Huh? Not on eBay. They'd rather have 1 powerseller than 100 little tadpoles. At least I would. Same profit, with a lot less work.
Some people just like more work though. I wouldn't sell anything I couldn't make $10 on, and many sellers would rather try and sell 10 items that they'd only make $1 each on. I guess I'm just lazy that way, kinda like big corporations are. None of them go after the small $ customers. It's just too much work, for too little return. It is better for them to focus their efforts on where they can get the highest return on the time they invest.
how do you figure that one powerseller is less work than one hundred people doing only one ad? the last time I checked everything at ebay was computerized so it's not like I have to call on the phone and place a add for 100 widgets today, as opposed to one hundred people placing 100 single ads today. the software does all the work.
I am a powerseller, and with the changes I think it might be time to fold it up and time to start working my heating and cooling business again, so if I walk I guess I take the volume of about 10 little guys, it use to be about 50 little guys but I've been lazy too. Now if you piss off 50, 100, 200 powersellers and get them to walk is that better than 200 little guys?
posted on May 23, 2001 07:17:33 PM new
well... if eBay doesn't make revenue projections it will be worse than if they do.
The stock will plunge, and service will also plunge.Fees will also increase dramatically to placate shareholders. If eBay doesn't continue with its stellar revenue growth, we're looking at an $8 a share stock, and a lot of management and emplyees who no longer give a sh*t.
posted on May 24, 2001 12:16:10 AM new
your right the only way to get their attention is for everyone to move to the same site, but it's still hard to think about not listing on ebay at all, and that is where they get you.
also if they change to a half.com structure they get paid first and we get what is left after they have take their cut/fees. they don't have to worry about some big seller, powerseller or otherwise, not paying their bill at the end of the month because their CC was no good. Also they don't have to worry about a few thousand sellers getting together and running charge backs for the last three months because you don't feel the service that was paid for was provided.
posted on May 24, 2001 05:48:50 AM new
libra63: The FAQs on this Linking Policy indicates that there is an EXCEPTION for the REAL ESTATE Categories.
I did specifically ask about the Premier Listings and the eBay Motors and was told by the PTB that ePremier & eBay Motors listings must comply with the new policies. And based on other conversations with the PTB at eBay, my impression is that this new policy on links DOES apply (or is Equally INTENDED) for the Big Boys using eBays venue.
The "Big Boys" are definitely vulnerable to getting turned in by Mom & Pop "Deputies" for listing violations surrounding the new linking policy after May 31. However, it is my understanding that users shouldn't expect that eBay is going to pull every listing in violation effective May 31. They intend to give violators ONE WARNING before removing listings.
This will require the "deputies" searching for High Volume violators to turn in, to actually keep a list of "perpetrators" and follow-up in a couple of weeks from the original date of notifying eBay regarding the infraction to see if they've changed their wicked ways before submitting a SECOND violation report.
posted on May 24, 2001 05:50:14 AM new
Libra63- According to the article in AW about corps coming to eBay, they already are using links and any other method they can come up with to steer buyers off site.
It is also fact that these big outfits negotiate with eBay for TOS, so what the "rules" are for them is already different than it is for the small sellers.
Here is a link to a news story about Vegas Casinos and their large customer [Whales].
posted on May 24, 2001 10:34:44 AM new
Thanks Dottie and reamond I sure hope I have kept that Premier auction to see if they change their description. If they don't would you (me) report them? Ebay sure is showing a double standard. I guess they can't remember the early days when they depended on Mom and Pop and buyers itching to get at those collectibles that they can't find in their area. I haven't tried Yahoo yet but I think maybe I will give it a shot. I don't have many repeat buyers because of the merchandise that I sell so I don't have any lists so I guess I will just start over. I will list on ebay and in my EOA I will put in the AW storefront, my website and Yahoo. I am sure that if we list our sites through the about me page that ebay will start charging for them also. I guess the Rich get richer and the poor get poorer. Poor includes me.
posted on May 24, 2001 11:27:28 AM new
It doesn't do any good to turn in a big player if you don't know what the TOS for that particular seller is.
eBay now has a TOS for all the serfs and a custom secret propriatary TOS for the big guys.
If any of us had re-listed an item 4 times after eBay removed it due to being infringing, I guarantee we would be history. But when a big outfit does it, no problem.
I warned of these things happening several months ago on a thread regarding big players coming to eBay. Many of the collectible and small sellers said I was overstating the case, and these big players couldn't hurt the small sellers. Well... one of the things I said would happen would be eBay catering to the big players regarding TOS and how the site is operated.
Follow the money ! eBay will cater to the big outfits because they bring in huge revenues with far less expences than the small sellers.
The next thing that is going to happen is the price of realestate is going to go up dramatically on eBay. The big corps will still find it a bargain, but the small and marginal sellers will be forced out due to these fee increases.
posted on May 24, 2001 12:07:10 PM new
reamond: Sorry that I'm just now getting back to this thread... I've been busy listing a bunch of items over at SellYourItem.com but I wanted to let you know that I DID send an eMail inquiry this morning after reading your post which stated the following:
"It is also fact that these big outfits negotiate with eBay for TOS, so what
the "rules" are for them is already different than it is for the small
sellers. "
And I asked specifically if that was true or not. This is the direct response I received a short while later:
"same rules about item descriptions for all sellers. real estate category
(for all sellers) is exempt."
So I would say that it is NOT a "fact" that these big outfits have been able to negotiate their way out of abiding by the new policy on LINKS... and felt it was important to clarify that rumor in this thread.
posted on May 24, 2001 02:00:41 PM new
Here is the article running in the New York Times today.
EBay Irritates Some Sellers by Banning Links to Home Sites
eBay and its sellers may need each other to survive, but that doesn't exactly mean they are best friends. The relationship took another rocky turn recently as eBay announced that starting May 31, it would prohibit sellers from linking to their own home pages from eBay pages that list items up for bid. A seller is allowed to provide text descriptions of items, as well as photographs and graphics, but it cannot link to a separate Web site that may provide more information about that item, or any other.
Now sellers who want to take customers to their own Web sites may do so only through a free eBay service called About Me. It invites sellers to set up an eBay-based Web page that includes information about themselves but not about items sold outside eBay's auctions.
The action has left many sellers seething. An eBay discussion board now includes more than 300 postings about the new policy, many of which are from people who contend that they are now forced to discard Web pages they had created for the sale of specific items or bury their own Web sites several clicks away from the About Me pages, where they suspect that few customers will find them.
The new policy spells out a prohibition that was implicit in eBay's user agreement but had not been strictly enforced, according to the policy announcement on the eBay Web site. Down the road, eBay will offer — for a fee — a "storefront" feature that will allow sellers to provide more information about their businesses, said Kevin Pursglove, an eBay spokesman.
"If our sellers simply use eBay as an eyeball-attracting mechanism," Mr. Pursglove said, "those sellers are not paying their fair share of the fees to maintain a viable marketplace."
posted on May 24, 2001 08:35:18 PM new
The HardRock Cafe is a seller on ebay USERID hardrock.com Their auction pages are a perfect example of what is NOT allowed for normal users, loads of direct links that are not related to the item being sold and direct links to other items for sale. What are the chances that ebay will make them change their auction pages ...
posted on May 24, 2001 08:50:33 PM new
I wish I had a crystal ball so that I could see what eBay will be like 3,6 and 12 months for now.
The changes are happening little by little, and as each one is digested, and the dust settles, a new one is announced. It would be too much to implement them all at once.
A few weeks ago, I noticed that the feedback page and changed. Underneath the scorecard, it used to say AUCTIONS by userid, now it says ITEMS FOR SALE by userid. Just wondering when the new format is coming.
The ability of eBay to attract large retailers is rather limited. Some have not even been able to figure ecommerce out yet, to even begin tackling the auction format and all its related issues.
But some will come and use the format to bring in buyers. After all, if you are going to have auctions at your site, why not do so through the eBay API so that you can reach eBay buyers as well. That way, your auctions, reachable through your website are lively.
I notice what the big boys are doing. And it makes me think of ways I can do the same thing. The whole idea of sending buyers to your site to complete the checkout process is one of them. We never think about that because we always read complaints about using third-party checkouts (like Andale), but we don't often think about creating our own check-out/ upsell.
I mean, theoretically, you could have your own domain, host your own images and make all your images clickable so that the user clicks through to your website. Same way it's done when you use auctionwatch hosting, except it clicks through to your own site. And from there, the buyer could click through to your other items.
posted on May 24, 2001 09:20:56 PM new
Chum-Thanks for the article. Very interesting. It seems like everybody comes into AW to read the boards. What is nice about it is that then the public can see what is happening on eBay. Did you notice how the reporter said free ebay service the about me page. lol. Free for how long? Until ebay realizes that more people are going to the websites than bidding in their auction site.
Zymo-I just left the Hardrock site and at first I didn't see any linking. I started by opening their TOS and there they state all ebay rules then they break the rules by linking to their store, buy it on line. Well, soon it will be May 31.
posted on May 24, 2001 10:49:22 PM new
linking from your me page just makes it easier for ebay to track how many people are leaving their site(your listings) and going to your site.
if they feel the number of people that are clicking off to sellers web sites is too high they will probably kill that as well.
sending people to your web site to check out, if too many people start doing this it is likely that they will stop letting people send their own EOA emails and will probably go to the half.com format. which could be what it meant on one of the other threads where someone got a email from ebay where it says that you will be able to pay with a credit card with no fees to the buyer or the seller. just a guess here but it will probably be phased in, you can try it for awhile, then they will make it mandatory that they handle the monies, they'll take their share and send you yours.
posted on May 24, 2001 11:24:21 PM new
I can understand how ebay will be able to tell how many buyers go to our website because of the about me page but how will they know if we put it in our EOA? Well time will tell.
posted on May 24, 2001 11:30:58 PM new
EOA I was saying that soon ebay will be handling that as well, they will just collect the monies like at half and send you your share
posted on May 25, 2001 12:05:05 AM new
That sounds great. Let eBay handle the collections, and eBay doesn't get paid until we do. That would solve my $500/month deadbeat problem.
