posted on May 26, 2001 09:55:46 AM
I noticed this in my statement, too. Cancelled the card (though not for that reason).
What I wanted to say is BET ON that ALL credit card companies will do the same thing. People don't read the terms and conditions, and banks are like ducks in a row when they find a new way to screw the public.
Remember when ATM fees were non-existant? When a bank first applied them, everyone claimed that they would never use that bank again. Now they all charge $1.50 in my area. All charge the SAME amount.
Remember when late payment fees were $5 or so? Now they are all between $25-35.
Count on all credit card issuers doing the same thing about the payment services- and it has nothing to do with helping the consumer, believe me.
posted on May 26, 2001 10:01:23 AM
Holy cow, I just realized that cash advances carry a $5 minimum finance charge, plus an inflated interest rate. Glad I cancelled that card.
posted on May 26, 2001 11:25:59 AMAbsolutely. It is YOUR responsibility to guard your card. I once had a customer charge back a laser printer I shipped him, with the excuse that his son ordered it without permission. My merchant bank denied the charge back. His merchant bank tried to insist that it go through. I called them and asked them to send me something in writing that said that a son could order whatever he wanted and the father was free to charge it back. I also told them that I had one of their credit cards and I had a son. They quickly agreed to deny the charge back.
Now this I find very hard to believe. The bottom line is if the person that purchased the item is not on the cardholder's account. It can and will be chargedback. That includes a wife that makes a charge using a card that is only in her husband's name. Also was this kid a minor that made the charge? End of discussion again. You can not enter into a contract with a minor.
Yes, a cardholder is supposed to guard their card. A merchant is also supposed to make sure they are accepting a charge from the cardholder.
I would love to know what credit card company let them get by with denying that chargeback.
posted on May 26, 2001 03:39:36 PM
Thanks for bumping this back up, reddeer...dunno how I missed it. I see it this way...fewer CC sales, fewer chargebacks, lol.
I've always thought that CC sales were for the convenience of the customer...so that's who should pay the fees, IMO. That's why I have no use for PayPal or Billpoint. And if my customer is dissatisfied, I want them to talk to ME...not some corporation. Of course, that could be because I don't have any dissatisfied customers...lol...
I am quite content with checks and money orders. I have no particular urge to drive my treasured buyers into credit card debt...
posted on May 26, 2001 06:39:56 PM
>>(My comments Absolutely. It is YOUR responsibility to guard your card. I once had a customer charge back a laser printer I shipped him, with the excuse that his son ordered it without permission. My merchant bank denied the charge back. His merchant bank tried to insist that it go through. I called them and asked them to send me something in writing that said that a son could order whatever he wanted and the father was free to charge it back. I also told them that I had one of their credit cards and I had a son. They quickly agreed to deny the charge back.
(Shop4shoes) Now this I find very hard to believe. The bottom line is if the person that purchased the item is not on the cardholder's account. It can and will be chargedback. That includes a wife that makes a charge using a card that is only in her husband's name. Also was this kid a minor that made the charge? End of discussion again. You can not enter into a contract with a minor.
Yes, a cardholder is supposed to guard their card. A merchant is also supposed to make sure they are accepting a charge from the cardholder.
I would love to know what credit card company let them get by with denying that chargeback. <<
Reply: My merchant account was with Fleet Bank. They denied the charge back. The buyer's card was with a bank I believe was called the Bank of Monrovia (I think in Pennsylvania). They first accepted the charge back but then after my argument that I also have a son, they quickly backed down. Since then I have also spoken to the credit card deprtment at Citibank and Chase. Both of them said they would have denied the charge back. We have seen quite a few stories of charge backs being made with Paypal, Billpoint and Paydirect where the buyer claims their wife or child used the card. The fact is that the merchandise was delivered to the correct address and was accepted. It is difficult to accept the cardholder's word that they had no knowledge of this. Even so, the cardholder still has the ability to return the merchandise. No reputable bank will allow the cardholder to both keep and charge back the item. If this were the acceptable procedure, why rob a bank? Just order merchandise and blame it on your wife and keep it free.
I hope this doesn't cut into the number of pairs of shoes you planned to shop for.
posted on May 26, 2001 07:28:00 PMActually, Shop4shoes, the previous poster was correct. Those kind of disputes do not fly.
They fly and they fly very well. My neighbor just had one of his first online transactions go bad. Nearly identical situation except the purchaser was the cardholder's new wife, whom he had not added to the account. She used a Citibank platinum card. I am not sure which merchant account my
neighbor used, but I think it was Wells Fargo. He fought the chargeback. He lost. The only thing citibank di concede was that the merchandise should be returned to him. He got back a VCR that looked like it had been dropped kicked.
My sister's fairly spoiled kid ordered a slew of toy tucks and games online. The total came to just over $700. He used her First USA platinum. First USA immediately issued a reversal when they found out what had happened. She returned all of the trucks, except one. The kid had already traded that one. They wrote back that the merchant was disputing it since the trucks were returned after their normal return period. The merchant lost.
Customer's boyfriend orders a very expensive computer using her card. He signed for it when it arrived. She denied ordering it and pointed out that she did not sign for it her card initiated a chargeback. The merchant lost the dispute. They claimed that since the signerature for delivery was not that of the cardholder it was a valid chargeback. The merchant was burned hard on that one it was a high ticket computer.
The fact is that the merchandise was delivered to the correct address and was accepted. It is difficult to accept the cardholder's word that they had no knowledge of this.
Means almost nothing. If the cardholder does not sign for the merchandise it is almost a always a chargeback. According to Visa that is one of the biggest types of cardholder fraud when it comes to mailorder and internet sales. The rep says that UPS and FedX wil refuse to deliver to addresses that pull that trick too much.
. No reputable bank will allow the cardholder to both keep and charge back the item.
Discover is known to allow this to happen. That is why so many merchants shy away from accepting it. They are pretty bad in face to face transactions also. If someone buys something from your store and does not like it after a few days and you refuse to accept a return, quite often Discover will initiate a chargeback.
I notice that you made no mention of this person returning the goods in your first post. But then again you quite often leave out some of the story.
I hope this doesn't cut into the number of pairs of shoes you planned to shop for
Is that what passes as wit, where you come from? You talk a good game until someone challenges your half-stories and misinformation. Then you make your fairly pittiful attempt at a personal attack.
posted on May 26, 2001 07:55:43 PM
I use a credit card service that was recently bought out by another.
Now the only thing I need for authorization is the card number, expiration date and amount. (I used to have to input the address number too, and zip code)
I don't feel comfortable with this new way at all, there is no way they are verifying the address as belonging to the credit card.
I want to stay using a merchant account, for ebay and my other on line business,
anyone have a good merchant account to suggest?
Also, I recently lost a dispute, even though I shipped it to the right address of the card. When they notified me of this, they also stated the amount $25.00 was too small for them to persue further.
Yet it wasn't too small for them to take their 3% out of.
posted on May 26, 2001 08:14:45 PM
Shop, it may occur but if that was commonplace, everyone would just have their sibling, spouse or neighbor order for them and then do a chargeback. Most card issuers will not buy into that. YMMV.
It does seem like there are multiple examples here getting confused. If the consumer returns the merchandise, they generally get a refund regardless of who charged it. I agree that the merchant often has to except a return that unacceptable in its condition.
posted on May 26, 2001 08:35:38 PM
loggia: It is very commonplace. As I said the rep I spoke to said it was one of the most common types of mail order fraud.
I live in Gainesville, Florida. Home of the University of Florida.
I am not sure how familiar you are with credit cards issued to students, but what happened here illustrates how bad the problem is.
A college student can get a credit card with no job or credit history. All they need is proof of enrollment at a college.
Here at the University of Florida there used to be about 40 companies that wanted to give students credit cards. Most of them have now stopped. Why? Fraud. Mainly, my boyfriend, roomate, dog, iguana, pet rock charged this without my knowledge. One card company said that it was so bad that it wasn't feasible to issue them anymore at the U of F.
One company that I spoke to told me that when they had tried to challenge some of the more blatant attempts at fraud, the little darlings would have student legal services fire off legal letters on their behalf. Every student at the UF gets free representation by an attorney. They are not afraid to use them.
The saddest thing is that many of them are proud of their scamming. In my stores I hear angel faced young ladies bragging about how they nailed the card companies for a digital camera or a new stereo. When I hear it I always inform them that they have just hurt some merchant. Some of who may be a mom or pop orperation. Some are genuinely shocked, since they thought the card company paid for it and not the merchant. Most however don't care.
The other thing is that many of the freshman that get the cards are not 18. They rack up a bill and then refuse to pay based on the fact they are a minor. I blame the issuers for this more than the student.
It isn't just a problem at the U of F. It is a problem at most major universities.
Absolutely. It is YOUR responsibility to guard your card. I once had a customer charge back a laser printer I shipped him, with the excuse that his son ordered it without permission. My merchant bank denied the charge back. His merchant bank tried to insist that it go through. I called them and asked them to send me something in writing that said that a son could order whatever he wanted and the father was free to charge it back. I also told them that I had one of their credit cards and I had a son. They quickly agreed to deny the charge back.
