posted on May 27, 2001 12:28:36 PM new
Twinsoft...at this point is is just speculation. I realize those who interpet the writing on the wall the way you and others do feel they are interpeting it correctly...maybe you are, maybe your not...only time will tell.
But it IS just interpetation and opinion...others may be interpeting the same "clues" differently and they may prove to be right...again, only time will tell.
But to tell others that they are clueless because they don't interpet the situation the same way you do is wrong (and that is a general you )
I too have been on ebay for over three years and have seen the same things you have...and have seen the same gloom and doom predictions and the same call to arms for sellers to "diversify". And have seen the same name calling directed towards those who disagree.
posted on May 27, 2001 12:39:51 PM new
Shaani, I agree with you there. One hundred percent. The clueless sellers I am talking about are the ones who think they can "outsmart" eBay in the face of changing policies. Not those who are smart enough to get out when the deal's done, but those who hang on thinking tenacity is what's needed to get over this hurdle. It's not a hurdle, it's an abyss.
Specifically, I'm speaking to a remark made in this forum a few days ago about Mom and Pop sellers snitching on the big guys for policy infractions such as off-site linking. As if somehow, that will level the playing field or I don't know what. I think that attitude amounts to ******* in the wind. It is an exercise in futility. JMHO.
eBay is becoming a grown-up party. At first the kids prance around, thinking they're the center of attention. After 10 minutes, a grown-up says, "Okay, off to bed." And that's it for the kiddles.
posted on May 27, 2001 12:49:55 PM new
Amy, we're going to have to agree to disagree on this one. Read my post above. I don't mean that anyone selling on eBay is clueless. I mean that anyone who thinks they can "outsmart" eBay is clueless. eBay could drop those sellers in a minute, and I think once eBay rolls out the new "storefronts," we'll see eBay one big step closer towards the Final Solution.
However, I must say that eBay is making no secret of ditching small sellers. They are making record profits, yet they increase fees. (For example.) They've made no secret about where the bulk of the profits come from, and will come from in the next few years. I think you're getting a bit defensive here. I'm not talking about your sales. I'm talking about eBay's policy.
But until eBay comes right out and says, "We're dumping the collectibles sellers," I guess one could argue that it's subject to interpretation.
posted on May 27, 2001 12:50:20 PM new
I know it's a hackneyed phrase, but that's because it's so true. "Hope for the best, but prepare for the worst." I think it fits the relationship of seller to eBay perfectly.
posted on May 27, 2001 12:56:07 PM new
toke & twinsoft: I agree with your comments in this thread!
And, I just wanted to provide an update... you wouldn't believe the number of REGULAR eBay Q&A Posters that have registered over at SellYourItem.Com just within the last 24 hours. It's incredible!!!!
I didn't even see anything like this when the old Gold's Auction site was up and running.
ALSO... I had an item end with Buy Now on SYI a short while ago. My page view hits on 32 listings is over 150 and I have other BIDS.
posted on May 27, 2001 01:15:37 PM new
Hi Dottie...
I've been trying to remember what happened to Gold's. Wasn't it inadequate servers that did them in? Please correct me if I'm wrong...it's more than likely... I have a very vague recollection of the whole thing, since I never listed there.
Anyway, if that's the case, did you notice that SYI is running on Beta servers right now, and plans to upgrade later? Isn't that what happened before???
posted on May 27, 2001 01:42:37 PM new
Toke: I think that's what caused some skepticism in the beginning... Gold's was on BETA servers (brand new site and really wasn't prepared for folks to find it OR for the influx of followers when eBay initiated the Reserve Fiasco)...
Many people went over to check it out at first, but then never "forgave them" for the site being slow when it was literally bombarded out of the blue by users seeking alternatives to eBay en masse.
What happened later had no relation to the early site stability issues. In fact, once the old Gold's Site was on 'real equipment' it was quite nice... but the traffic never increased beyond a certain point.
Some of us sellers DID manage to bring our regular customers over to Gold's to buy and we DID experience some bidding wars over at Gold's. I know that I was routinely making as much (if not more) on some items at Gold's than I was able to get on eBay.
Gold's owners weren't running the site in the early days, and in my opinion, trusted the wrong person to "deliver" a bunch of promises. By the time the OWNERS realized that mistake, it was rather late. And some of the early offers for financial backing that was crucial to it's long term survival had lost interest.
My personal feeling is that Gold's was doomed by fear of making any decisions at all. Rather than step up to the plate and make some important committments, NOTHING was done.
It just doesn't work that way. There needs to be a strong business plan and some real financial backing (hard to come by now-a-days for sure) and a team of hard workers that actually follow through.
I'm hopeful that SellYourItem.Com will have a better outcome. But I admit, that I feel desperate to find an alternative to eBay and from where I'm sittin' ALL of the options look about equal. Sellers and Bidders need to be dedicated to make themselves an alternative venue for their online activities. It behooves bidders to seek alternative sites too, as I know from personal experience as a seller if I'm not shelling out so much in Listing Fees and Enhancement Fees just to get my items noticed within the listings, it's more affordable to offer items with lower opening bid amounts. (less overhead for the seller to pass on to the buyers).
I guess that's about it in a nutshell.
(sorry for the long post)
posted on May 27, 2001 01:57:12 PM new
Thank you, Dottie... I DO remember how loyal the Gold's sellers were, at the time. How much hope there was.
I dunno quite where to jump. I strongly believe eBay needs competition, but I don't have the quantities of stock to play with that you do. Still have my test item at ePier, but all the hits (except for ONE...lol) are from me checking my auction...
I've made buckets of money on eBay and still prefer it to any other site. I'm hoping some serious competition might keep them to at least a bare minimum of customer service. Stinky as they've been lately, I still hold out some hope.
posted on May 27, 2001 02:15:35 PM new
This newbie is attempting to assimilate all this into usable info for the present and future. Also, for me all the posts have value.
Now having read AW posts [mostly here] and other boards for 3 weeks--5 hrs a day...trying to put together auctions as my primary income [I do not have the option of working outside my home]....I have formulated some ideas---
** many of these ideas are parts of other's messages on AW, whom I would give credit to, but, unfortunately, I can't remember who wrote which post, [so please take credit if it's your idea & why you suggested the idea!]...that being said;
1] If you sell on eBay, why not take and put a small % of your auctions on 2-3 other auctions.
2] Most sellers have kept the email addresses of their buyers. This could be quite a sizable list just for the sellers who post on AW. Why not send an email to each of the high bidders [& any other bidders that the sellers have email for] & tell them that they will also be having auctions on ___ & ___ auctions sites,... so be sure to check them out there under the name of ____. I personally have received such emails. They also explained that they were doing so because of lower listing prices on the other auctions, which allowed them to auction an item at a lower price. I greatly appreciated these sellers emails, their time and effort to inform me and I did buy from them on other auction than eBay after their email to me.
3] If a seller is concerned about reprisals from eBay they could use an anonymous type of software to contact their high bidders--[I don't know of any, but I have read about it.]
4] I agree wholeheartedly with a few posts that stated it is not enough to just post an auction on another auction site than eBay...these auctions must be supported with buyers...so why not buy at least 1 item on an auction you are also selling on...there must be 1 item on that auction that you need.
I need to close for now but I hope this spurs some ideas and actions...Thanks for taking the time to read my post...topics42
posted on May 27, 2001 02:24:04 PM new
Twin...i'm not talking about my sales either. I'm talking about the speculation that ebay is dropping the small sellers. I'm talking about the disrespect that is often shown those who don't think ebay is pushing the small sellers out the door.
I'm not talking about kiddies at an adult party...I'm talking about adults who interpet the party differently than other party goers do.
I'm not talking about people who think they can outsmart ebay...I'm talking about people who feel it is entirely possible to adapt to the morphing ebay. I'm not talking about people who only see good with ebay but people who see the warts and still feel they can work with a changing enviornment.
I fully respect your opinion that ebay is squashing the small seller and showing him the door...I just happen to disagree with your opinion. I don't say your defensive when you disagree with my position, why should I or others be told we are being defensive if we disagree with your position?
Toke is right...hope for the best but prepare for the worst. Some are doing that by trying to find alternatives. Others are watching what is happening and planning on ways to work within the new ebay...but they too are preparing for the worst.
Its just that the interpetation of "worst" may be different
posted on May 27, 2001 02:24:18 PM new
toke: I know what ya mean. I still HOPE too... seems that's most of what I've done as a volunteer voices1 member for over 2 years... well, SPEAK UP and then HOPE.
Some folks have suggested that those of us who are now discussing dissatisfaction with the changes at eBay in these outside forums are merely looking into a crystal ball and speculating. I say to that, "NOT SO!"
I continue to be honest with the PTB and passionate about the plight of "mom & pop" sellers and collectors still trading on the site. NOTHING I say in these forums would come as a surprise to any of the PTB at eBay. These recently announced changes have been in the works for a while, and I have been extremely vocal about them as a Voices member. (to no avail this time, it seems) - But as adamant as I've been feeling about some of these "ideas", I have NOT discussed things prior to eBay's own Announcements.... and I NEVER will.
I appreciate the opportunity eBay gives me to voice my concerns directly to the PTB and early enough in the development process (sometimes) that community feedback can actually make a difference.
It's more a matter of INTEGRITY (and respect for the Voices program) than a matter of loyalty that I keep my "mouth shut" before announcements at this point though... and I can say with certainty that while I love to trade on eBay (and will CONTINUE to do so), I am extremely eager to find and grow alternatives (such as SellYourItem.Com) to ADD to my eBay success.
posted on May 27, 2001 02:33:33 PM new
Yep, reading between the lines and being able to read the handwriting on the wall means it's NOT going to get better and can only get worse! Make hay while the sun shines and prepare your alternatives.
posted on May 27, 2001 03:33:48 PM new
('Know I shouldn't do this but anyway...)
Amy, you took a shot across the bow when someone called you an eBay "cheerleader." I don't think of you as a cheerleader because you say (and I believe it) that your sales are good. I respect and admire anyone that is making good on eBay nowadays.
I suppose I overgeneralized when I said sellers are "clueless," when what I really meant was sellers who think they can outsmart eBay.
At this point we start to disagree. Yes, I think eBay is showing small sellers the door. And what's more, I think that is obvious, an inescapable conclusion and from the posts I read here I'd say 95% of posters agree.
I do think calling someone an eBay cheerleader is unfortunate, but since you are always defending eBay and its policies, giving your own success as an example, I'm sure you realize the risk you run. If 95% of people say the sky is blue, and 5% say that's a matter of opinion, my own guess would be that 5% are colorblind.
You may be clever enough or dedicated enough or talented enough to succeed on the new eBay. That does not change the fact that eBay is scraping the little sellers off eBay's shoes. That is my opinion. I'm glad we respect each other, because I don't claim to be an infallible oracle. Just one person's opinion, FWIW.
posted on May 27, 2001 04:03:33 PM new
Twin...thank you..respect is all anyone wants
I don't defend ebays position all the time, heck I have grumbled about many of the changed policies as much as others. I'm just the type of person who can see where my grumbling will probably have no affect and then proceed to learn how to make lemonade from the current crop of lemons. And I'm also the type of person who can see the other side of the coin (ie, ebay's POSSIBLE reasoning) and try to understand where ebay is coming from.
I also don't think that these boards represent a true reading of how the sellers on ebay feel. 95% of those posting here may say the sky is blue (or ebay is sweeping the small dealers out the door), but those who post here are but a very tiny sampling of the ebay community. It may be that there are many others who don't agree and the 95% here becomes the 5% minority when ALL ebayers are taken into consideration.
posted on May 27, 2001 04:31:11 PM new
Hey remember this from Girl Scouts:
"Make new friends and keep the old... one is silver and the other is gold"
Guess they at Ebay never wore a Brownie Uniform.... so sad.
As to Stingray and your love of money, funny to find you here with all us regular folk trying to get us to go to bat with you on this cause... I just think it is in poor taste to start a thread asking for our community support and then insult my nighbors (aka "the comminity" in the same breath. Hint... I'm most willing consider your apollogy. As to the name of the auction house "Golds" I never really liked the name, reminded me of the sleezy strip clubs in the big city.
Having lived on the tidal shores I've learned that tides come and go, and with great force. Now looking out from my porch, I'd say last week was high tide for EPay and, and the flow is on the go. Sorry for changing the thread, as I should have kept to a Titantic analogy.. either way the waters are churn'n Captain..!
posted on May 27, 2001 04:39:52 PM new
So are there any statistics floating around somewhere that would show what percent of the dollars come from the collectibles and antiques versus new merchandise??
I deal in antiques and collectibles and have not paid attention to the rest of the site.
So, What are people buying that is bringing in such huge revenue that is making ebay want to get rid of mom and pop and are there statistics collected anywhere to show this??
posted on May 27, 2001 04:47:54 PM new
Amy, I think you're absolutely on the mark about the vast majority of sellers on eBay. The local sellers that I see virtually every day, never have a clue about changes. They don't read any boards...here or on eBay...nor do they read the Announcement Board. They just keep listing away...oblivious to all the new rules and fee changes around them. I am NOT kidding. I give them all heads up from time to time, just to keep their auctions from being shut down.
I'm getting tired of it, though. If they don't even care enough about their businesses to read the AB...why should I worry about them?
Anyway...100% of the sellers that I know personally have no opinion about any of this. Maybe ignorance IS bliss...
posted on May 27, 2001 05:31:30 PM new
I don't think eBay is trying to "get rid of" collectibles sellers, I think they have some ridiculous ideas about how to force us to list every piece of merchandise on eBay or not at all. The vast majority of eBay employees possess an appalling ignorance about collectibles, about the nature of selling collectibles, and that ignorance is revealed in their short-sighted policies and increasingly cumbersome fee structure. They want their cake and eat it too.
It is almost as if they think that sellers will react by doing "A" when they implement a burdensome policy, but instead when we find that "B" is more advantageous to us personally, eBay panics and then implements even more policies to shut down "B". So eBay scrambles to continually plug the holes in the dike.
As a seller I am going to be making some huge changes as to what I market on eBay and how to find other ways to promote my website which has proven more lucrative than eBay at this point. Experimenting with other auction sites is certainly one alternative.
But until the BUYERS feel the same degree of alienation as the SELLERS, I don't see them shifting loyalties. Shopping eBay's glutted listings is already such a time-consuming proposition, bargain-hunters are having a field day. Not so sure why they would be able to work in other sites in their daily shopping routine.
posted on May 27, 2001 05:39:11 PM new
The buyers will stay as long as the sellers are still there. Once the sellers go elsewhere, the buyers will follow. All that is needed is sellers leaving in droves to another site already in existence (there are MANY good ones that would suceed if sellers STOPPED selling on egreed. Another option is the sellers co-op idea. Remember the movie Field Of Dreams .. IF YOU BUILD IT, HE WILL COME ....
posted on May 27, 2001 05:47:01 PM new
Toke...very few of the ebay sellers I know ever bother to read the announcements or any of the auction boards either...including some who are quite successful!
Someone on another thread made the comment that 90% of what we worry about never comes to pass. Maybe those who go "blissfully" along have the right attitude. If and/or when a change comes about that affects them then they will figure out a way to adapt, but until then it is more productive to just continue to list and make their money. It saves them the stress of worrying about the 90% of things that never will happen anyway, leaving them better able to cope with the 10% that will need to be dealt with. . Especially when that 10% is probably inevitable anyway.
I agree with Reddeer...ebay isn't going to squash the small seller. As many have pointed out, ebay is greedy...they are not about to push the small seller out the door and into another auction site. They want the small sellers AND the big ones. It will be interesting to see if they can blend the mixture into an even bigger and better site...one that is great for everyone (I'm betting they can).
But hang on, its going to be a wild ride until stability sets in again.
posted on May 27, 2001 06:08:34 PM new
Interesting where we'd be if Yahoo had held off their fees for a year, or had instituted a FVF instead of a listing fee. It really did look like it could grow into a decent alternative. I haven't been there for months. Yahoo, what were you thinking?!
I think it's a mistake to think any site can compete with eBay. You know it, I know it, and eBay knows it. C'mon, be realistic. I think a more logical approach would be to look for an alternative site. Two things I think are required. First, that sellers list 10% of their items at another site. Just for "kicks," or just for principle. No, it won't make a dent in eBay, but it is a step in the right direction. Second, there shouldn't be any expectation that SYI, ePier or any others are going to topple eBay any time soon. eBay wasn't built overnight, and with their market share now, it will be even more difficult to draw bidders away.
Any auction site (and sellers) should be committed to the long term. I personally would be satisfied with a site that simply presents an alternative to eBay. What we have now is a monopoly and nothing at all to stop eBay from "dumping" on sellers. A site that is even 10% of eBay's size would be enough to rein in some of their more drastic changes. It's unrealistic to think that any site will compete with eBay any time soon.
Unfortunately, as soon as an auction house gets its head above water, it starts charging fees. Nobody talks about Amazon or Yahoo much any more.
posted on May 27, 2001 06:13:12 PM new
i very sadly say this. i went to epier and looked at the antique catagory i sell in. they had three pages of items in my cat. and only one bid at 1.00. ebay has a strong hold on the online auction biz.
the competition is very weak. i wish there was a second choice that would bring bidders. but ebay is dug in. i think the only thing that could hurt ebay is ebay itself.
what made the whole concept work was it is an auction. i think that the buy it now idea will hurt ebay in the end. i can walk out my door and buy anything now. buy it now will make ebay just another site on line if they are not careful..i have been in the antique biz. for 27 years and i can tell you that not one auctioneer ever decided it would be better to just sell the estate items at a fixed price. think about it.
>>Anyway...100% of the sellers that I know personally have no opinion about any of this.<<
At a big flea market I met a bunch of them too. I also met a seller who enlightened me... and I listened and listened. As to the people I meet daily none of them sell, they are the buyers in the e-world. They know and respect that I make my money selling full-time on the internet and I always have their ear when we talk as they are quite interested. It's still fun to tell people how I can buy a toaster at a yard sale for a dollar and sell it for 200 dolars.
The one thing I can agree with here in this thread is that some rough times are ahead and I've already began to plan. Like they say better to have a plan and not use it, than to face that big vast universe of future problems.... and not be prepared.
Make'n new plans Stan.... just hop on the bus Gus...!
posted on May 27, 2001 06:24:11 PM new
toke..they may be
Some things I think they will/may try...picture hosting through them is one possible idea they may try. All payments going through them may be another (everyone must pay by credit card like they do at half.com).
But I think the logistics of it may be the roadblock. Can you imagine how many new employees would be needed to keep track of it all? Or the possible challenge to their venue only status?
If the customer had to send the item back to ebay in order for a refund to be given as they do at half...can you imagine the size of a warehouse they would need? Books are small..computer, bikes, full sets of dishes are not. And they would have to have the item pass through their hands, otherwise the seller could claim the item was never returned (when it was) or the buyer could claim it was returned (when it wasn't).
Plus, the more they handle the payments or items the more they step into a vendor's role. I may not agree with everything they have done, but I don't think they are stupid...they aren't going to endanger their venue only status...to do so would leave them so liable that ebay could never survive!
As I said...it will be intersting to watch. I hope they can pull it off, without killing the goose. (and no, I don't want them to be in control of my business either....unless they want to buy the merchandise, list it, pack it, ship it, get the feedback...and give me ALL the profit!)
posted on May 27, 2001 07:43:59 PM new
Why do you folks think that if eBay goes through with a policy of payments being made through eBay that any returned items would be returned to eBay ?
I get paid through Amazon, but any returned items are sent directly to me.
posted on May 27, 2001 08:32:27 PM new
I can't help reading these threads...but it's getting pretty sad. There ARE many sellers, esp. on the "other auctions" board, who would do just about anything to support an alternative to ebay. Sure, we can try to drum up buyer interest by including notes in our emails. But until the alternative sites do something about general advertising and drawing in their own customers, it's all apparently pointless!
Somehow half.com managed to get some press and build visability...then it got bought up by ebay. Are the alternative sites afraid they will be next?
Why are there never any answers post here or elsewhere about why these sites don't try to advertise?
If the economic news this year has told us anything, it's that dot.coms need to act like "real" businesses. If that means generating revenue through usage fees, OK by me. But it also means marketing!
)
I have a very vague recollection of the whole thing, since I never listed there.
