kristie
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posted on June 8, 2001 06:43:54 AM new
I recently called Paypal regarding a transacion. I was told that the fee increase
for under $9.99 transactions has ALREADY taken place effective last Tuesday. The fee
is now 30 cents + 2.2% of transaction amount. They offered no apologies for this when I questioned them. They said that this information is listed under there policy update on the web site and they did not need to notify users. It is outrageous that they have increased fees without notifiying users. Any comments?
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MouseSlayer
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posted on June 8, 2001 06:52:24 AM new
Um, typical PayPal policy change without notice. 
~^~  Hippy wannabe  ~^~
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dschulma
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posted on June 8, 2001 08:01:30 AM new
Yes, very typical. That's one reason I closed my PP account over a year ago and haven't looked back!
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sadie999
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posted on June 8, 2001 08:12:35 AM new
kristie,
I think that rep was a bozo. I just checked my account. I've received two PP payments under $15 in the last couple of weeks, one the day before yesterday. The fee was 30 cents.
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ebaypowersellergold
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posted on June 8, 2001 08:12:57 AM new
Sorry to break the bad news, but they're not done either. Remember, they're acting as an INTERMEDIARY between a credit card company & you. As such, they won't even be able to continue to offer terms "similar" to a standard merchant account and still make money themselves (2.2% + 30c is similar to most merchant accounts out there).
They've even compounded the problem by paying interest on accounts (they'll have to eventually charge even more down the road).
I still feel bad for all those that got "suckered" in when they said they'd be free forever (yeah, I read the weasel words they issued to tell you why they weren't "really" lying when they said it would be free & they'd make money on the float...) Anyone that thinks this is the "end" of the price increases isn't doing the math. My guess is that they're paying the credit card companies over 2% themselves... They'll need to eventually MAKE MONEY if they want to survive. BTW, they don't make ANYTHING on the float (unless they have a 100 or 200% per year return on some investment no one else knows about... do the math to see what return they get holding money for 5 days in a 10% annual return account)
My personal opinion is that an electronic check option will eventually take over most of the on-line business. Although others (like Billpoint) are currently grossly overcharging for such a service, it should eventually be possible to do for a 25c/transaction fee, regardless of the amount. No cost to the seller, cheaper than a stamp for the buyer, instantaneous too (no "float" required).
Sounds "win-win" to me. Not everyone needs to use a credit card for those $50 buys... a direct transfer from your account will be all that's needed.
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paypaldamon
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posted on June 8, 2001 03:08:06 PM new
Hi,
Please check the "What's New" section on the site. The fee increase has not gone into effect and will not until the end of the month. I apologize for any incorrect information you may have received through customer service.
In addition, you may want to check out the section on PAYPAL PREFERRED in What's New. This is a way of reducing the fees you pay.
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ExecutiveGirl
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posted on June 8, 2001 03:20:06 PM new
Paypaldamon said: This is a way of reducing the fees you pay.
Yes! There really is a way to reduce your fees! Do what I did and CLOSE your Paypal account.
My Paypal fees literally disappeared!! 
[ edited by ExecutiveGirl on Jun 8, 2001 03:21 PM ]
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kristie
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posted on June 8, 2001 03:51:51 PM new
Right on, Executivegirl! I couldn't agree more. If a group of us made the decision to close out accounts and not
tolerate this anymore, we might have an
impact. I think it's time for Ebayers to
stick together and take a stand.
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packer
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posted on June 8, 2001 03:59:05 PM new
I'm not going to close my account just yet.
But..I am going to put on my auction page I DO NOT TAKE PAYPAL with a brief description as to why.
If some dodo bird decides he's paying by PayPal anyway then I'm going to charge them a DOLLAR for the privledge. If they don't like it then they can bide by my auction terms.(period)...
packer
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ExecutiveGirl
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posted on June 8, 2001 04:12:58 PM new
Packer - just remember that chances are, many paypal users will just send you the payment without telling or asking you first. Then, if you tell them to Paypal you another $1.00, you will have to pay Paypal part of that $1.00 you just received.
It's a never-ending battle.
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packer
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posted on June 8, 2001 04:24:56 PM new
Hi ExecutiveGirl,
I thought of that. I will just refuse it till they send ne the correct amount.
I'll probably have to change some of my preferences.
Is it possible to have an "ACCEPT" or "DENIE" on EVERY transaction made?
I'll have to look into it.
packer
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morgantown
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posted on June 8, 2001 04:27:43 PM new
There is not going to be a mass exodus of PayPal over this fee increase. Just like there was no mass exodus when they began charging fees. Blowing hot air is the only thing likely to happen.
The thing that really gets me is the speed & scope of which these increases and tos policy changes are enacted [PayPal and others]. Imagine what we will be facing 1-2 years in the future...
MTown
UBB
[ edited by morgantown on Jun 8, 2001 04:28 PM ]
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ExecutiveGirl
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posted on June 8, 2001 04:31:01 PM new
Packer:
There is no way to decline or refuse a payment (been there, done that!). Your best bet would probably be to make your Paypal address DIFFERENT than your ebay email address. That way, bidders won't know the correct address and when they pay your ebay address, it will go to an invalid account and you can tell them to cancel it and if you want, you could tell them the new amount (adding the $1 charge) and tell them to send payment to your other address. But then again, you can only hope that they will pay you the additional $1 charge and not turn you in to ebay. 
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packer
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posted on June 8, 2001 04:39:27 PM new
EG,
That sounds good, I will be having a new e-mail address shortly. I've switched to cable modem.
As far as being turned into e-Bay, I don't think that would fly because in my terms of service on the auction page it will state "I DO NOT TAKE PAYPAL". So if they ask, I'll say sure but add $1.00 and expain why.
It will be their choice, right?
packer
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revvassago
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posted on June 8, 2001 05:06:51 PM new
Interesting.......
Paypaldamon said that we should look in the What's new section to find out about the fee increase and to learn how to reduce fees:
I looked everywhere for a "What's new" section on their site, and couldn't find it.
I guess that means there is no way to reduce PayPal fees.
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paypaldamon
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posted on June 8, 2001 05:19:09 PM new
hi revvassago,
Please look under PayPal Preferred. New products, policies and announcements can be found under "What's New".
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homeatmospheres
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posted on June 8, 2001 05:19:51 PM new
I thought that you were not allowed to charge an additional fee to accept paypal. I just checked ebays help site and found this information :
Payment Surcharges
An eBay seller may not charge a fee, often called a "credit card surcharge," when accepting credit card payments. This surcharge, which is an added cost to the buyer over and above the final sale price and shipping/handling, is not allowed under the laws of many states, including California. For more information, see:
http://www-s2.visa.com/fb/merch/biz/govt/surcharge.html
http://www.mastercard.com/consumer/cust_serv.html
I honestly don't see what the big darn deal is with the fees for paypal. I would rather people pay me that way, then I know the money is really mine. I have had a few bounced checks and waiting for snail mail is ridiculous. People always saying "I am sending the check today" and it never arrives.
Paypal is still a heck of a lot cheaper then a REAL MERCHANT ACCOUNT and there are no monthly minimums.
WE ARE STILL PAYING LESS TO RUN A BUSINESS ON EBAY THEN OPENING A STOREFRONT RETAIL OUTLET.
So quit your complaining and be glad you have a forum and resourses to sell and accept money on!!!
[fistbal01]
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kidsfeet
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posted on June 8, 2001 05:24:43 PM new
Paypal is not a "heck of a lot cheaper" than a real merchant account.
I don't take paypal (2.2%). I DO have a merchant account for internet transactions (2.45%), with NO fee increases.
Not that much of a difference.
I'll stick with the merchant account, thank you.
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paypaldamon
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posted on June 8, 2001 05:39:14 PM new
Hi kidsfeet,
Can you earn money back from the merchant account or can you have protection from charge backs?
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kidsfeet
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posted on June 8, 2001 05:51:32 PM new
Paypaldamon:
No. I don't earn money back. But I don't have to keep my money in an account with no FDIC insurance, either.
I have more control with processing cards with my account. I KNOW the bidders actual CC billing address, not just an address that a third party provides me. I can accept or deny their CC payment, as I choose.
My merchant provider does not freeze my account and "investigate". I have a full opportunity to provide ALL information to my provider, in the event of a chargeback. Chargebacks are always a risk. I don't have to jump through hoops. I can provide tracking in formation that DOES NOT have to be trackable online. They will accept ALL proof that I have to fight chargebacks.
To those that use paypal, great. I just have no use for it.
[ edited by kidsfeet on Jun 8, 2001 05:52 PM ]
[ edited by kidsfeet on Jun 8, 2001 05:56 PM ]
[ edited by kidsfeet on Jun 8, 2001 05:57 PM ]
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paypaldamon
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posted on June 8, 2001 05:55:22 PM new
Hi kidsfeet,
We release the same billing address that the other companies would, as the information is provided by the credit card companies.
Accounts are not restricted over a charge back. We do place a pending reversal on it until the seller provides the documentation requested in the Seller Protection Program.
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homeatmospheres
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posted on June 8, 2001 05:57:40 PM new
Kidsfeet,
Great but don't you have a minimum that you have to process each month for each type of credit card you accept (visa/ms/discover/etc)??? Many ebay sellers don't run high volume like others and therefore would be very turned off by having a minimum set for them.
Plus, when I checked into a merchant account they wanted me to sign a contract and lease the equipment from them. FOR A FEE!!!
I would rather take paypal where the buyer feels a little safer instead of giving me there credit card number directly.
As a buyer I very rarely even bid on auctions that don't accept paypal. It is convenient and I get my items a heck of a lot faster than going and getting a money order (which takes eons to trace if lost in the mail) and mailing it via snail mail. Or worse yet, sending a personal check and waiting for the seller to hold it for 10 days or longer.
I like convenience and so do my customers...maybe that's why I have approx 50% and more use paypal. I enjoy seeing in my feedback comments about a Fast and swift transaction.
To each their own but it gets sick of always seeing so many negative comments on here about the silliest things.
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kidsfeet
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posted on June 8, 2001 06:00:41 PM new
Paypaldamon,
I don't know how your address verification works. I know the bidder enters their address, and paypal says it is a verified or not verified address. But where it is verified from, I don't know.
I know directly through the AVS system if there is a mismatch.
If there is an address discrepancy, I can call my provider, get the phone # of the CARD ISSUER and call them direct to see if there is a second address listed. They will even get the cardholder on the line, if necessary, to verify the correct address. This just happened to me the other day. Someone had moved, and their address was not updated in the AVS system yet. I spoke with the CC ISSUER, they called their customer and everything was straightened out.
I like having more contol over who I accept CC payments from, and more support from my provider. It is well worth the extra 1/4 of a percent.
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kidsfeet
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posted on June 8, 2001 06:04:51 PM new
homeatmospheres,
I am not knocking paypal. If it works for you, great. I was just pointing out that the merchant account fees are not that far off from paypal's fees.
As far as minimums, yes, there is a minimum $25.00 in processing fees per month, which translates to about $1,000.00 per month in transactions.
With an internet merchant account, there are no leasing fees, no equipment to rent. All the processing is done online through a virtual terminal.
As I said, if it works for some people, great. I just don't need it.
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packer
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posted on June 8, 2001 06:07:05 PM new
I have a merchant account.
All I have to do is maintain $1,000 in my business acount and there are no added fees anywhere.
I'm charged $2.00 a month to rent their swiper and I can have a $10.00 charge or a $1,000 dollar charge. I pay a Flat 5%.
packer
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redskinfan
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posted on June 8, 2001 06:07:44 PM new
So if they're charging fees on every transaction now, is there a fee coming into effect to transfer the money into your bank account??
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kristie
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posted on June 8, 2001 06:07:49 PM new
My major argument with the new Paypal fee increase is that it unfairly penalizes the seller who sells less expensive items. My closing bids are generally in the $5.00 to $10.00 range. As such, the fees are taking a larger percentage of my profits. I also don't think Paypal should be entitled to a percentage of the shipping fees/insurance and other add ons that are unrelated to the product sold. They should only be allowed to charge a fee on the actual cost of the item.
My second objection is the rather underhanded way Paypal has approached the addition of fees. First, they advertised "always free" until they could get their foot in the door and establish market share. When they felt they had established a following, they had no remorse about changing their policy, ignoring the fact that sellers are the ones who made them the success that they are. With the latest fee increase, they failed to send sellers any direct notification. The only to find out is to continuosly read their policy changes on their website. And who does that?
I personally have lost any respect that I may have had for the tactics and actions of this company. I will do my best to encourage my buyers to use other sources.
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koto1
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posted on June 8, 2001 06:32:49 PM new
redskinfan -
So far, transferring money directly into your account is still free. If they start charging for that, I'm outta here!
kristie -
I received an email from PayPal just today about the policy changes...perhaps when you signed up, you clicked the box that told them NOT to send you informational emails?
"Who's tending the bar?  Sniping works up a thirst"
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outoftheblue
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posted on June 8, 2001 06:57:37 PM new
This paypal preferred program is bogus and will save you very little if anything.
"Advertise PayPal as the only online payment option on your eBay listings."
Ya right Damon. This sounds like a Microsoft like move to me. I wonder if the feds will like it.
I don't want to hear this cash back using your PayPal debit card hogwash.
[ edited by outoftheblue on Jun 8, 2001 07:05 PM ]
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morgantown
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posted on June 8, 2001 07:09:00 PM new
So if they're charging fees on every transaction now, is there a fee coming into effect to transfer the money into your bank account??
Any [wildly normal] fees that can be imagined are highly likely to be implemented. I honestly belive that the dot.coms are out for all they can get - IN RECORD TIME MIND YOU...
They are going to push it [us] to the breaking point.
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