spittingcamel
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posted on June 18, 2001 05:38:11 PM new
Now that we are not supposed to link to our sites anymore, what are people doing. We are wondering about other peoples creative & affordable stratagies for promoting their websites. This could be online and off. It is always a challange to reach new customers.
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wildanteeker
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posted on June 18, 2001 07:05:07 PM new
From what I see most are still posting the links anyway?I really did not see much change in anything?If anything at all I have been seeing more links on pages.I guess it is hard to police every seller so to me it looks like that rule will eventually just win out to the mass of people who continue to ignore it.It seems a gigantic protest and it is working.Even the "net cops" can't keep up with it.eBay would stand to lose too much if they started suspending people for defying this "rule".Looks like one of those deals where the masses have won out!Hats off to those rebels that defy the rules!!
[ edited by wildanteeker on Jun 18, 2001 07:07 PM ]
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sugar2912
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posted on June 18, 2001 07:14:56 PM new
I guess I'm only a half rebel, I still link to my site... but it is a teeeensy tiny link! I also have a clickable email link.
So THERE eBay! Nyah Nyah Nyah!
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daredevil2010
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posted on June 18, 2001 08:12:12 PM new
The best thing to do is LEAVE eBay. Not until a 2nd power emerges will eBay be forced to listen to sellers. They're like a monopoly.
I personally still sell on eBay, but I have most of my auctions on Bidville. Hopefully some auction site (like Bidville or ePier) will emerge.
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uaru
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posted on June 18, 2001 08:17:02 PM new
I don't know how long you could get away with it but you could change your eBay ID to www*mysite*com and get some attention for your site that way. I believe the clock is ticking on users even being allowed to have their email address as their ID.
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manyfeather
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posted on June 18, 2001 08:33:35 PM new
What in the world is going on here? Now we have ebay auction police telling us how to sale our items. We can't link to our own websites.
What crap. I was tagged last week and cited for links to my storefront, links to my website and my ad for paypal was too big.
Mercy. I have been on ebay for 3 years.. and brought them a good deal of business.
I pay my fees to list and if I sell I pay more.
I would love to see another online auction give them a run for their money.
For all I know they probably have a spy on the message board reporting back to Central..
When will Americans stand up and say Enough!!! we are violated on every front..
The land of the Free??? In your dreams..
There, I feel a bit better.. LOL
Manyfeather
I no longer seek, I find.
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spittingcamel
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posted on June 19, 2001 10:33:15 AM new
I was also wondering about new ways of getting people to our site. What have others found to be usefull without spending a fortune. I would love to find something creative, that people would remember.
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jdubonline
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posted on June 19, 2001 11:56:14 AM new
The solution is simple: cut back on your listings and move as many as possible to other venues, such as Yahoo, Amazon, ePier, whatever. Until eBay starts seeing a real drop in the amount of listing fees they are collecting daily, they are unlikely to respond to the complaints of "small-time" sellers.
The only way to have an effect with a company like eBay is to hit them in the pocketbook.
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reamond
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posted on June 19, 2001 01:52:14 PM new
Use your EOA email to transmit information about your site and what other items you have for sale.
I always offer other items in my EOA and offer a discount in directly purchasing a second item shipped with the eBay item. A large percentage of buyers add the extra item. I can offer discounts because there are no fees associated with the extra items.
Advertise your site on the EOA.
Also keep a database of all customer information. At some point if you leave eBay for another auction site, or want traffic directed to your own site, use the buyer list to bring them to your new digs.
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circuitmatter
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posted on June 19, 2001 02:03:16 PM new
"I always offer other items in my EOA and offer a discount in directly purchasing a second item shipped with the eBay item. A large percentage of buyers add the extra item. I can offer discounts because there are no fees associated with the extra items."
Is that against eBay's rules?
circuitmatter
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capotasto
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posted on June 19, 2001 02:19:11 PM new
circuitmatter:
Clearly offering more or additional or other items in your EOA deprives ebay of additional fees, and therefore must be against their rules. Also offering anything in your USPS letters or over the telephone is against ebay rules, as is offering anything to anyone in person face to face.
If you have anything for sale and have an ebay ID, you are only authorized to sell it on ebay. Any other sale is a violation of ebay TOS and will get you suspended.
It may also get you a life!
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dzge
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posted on June 19, 2001 05:50:54 PM new
I agree with jdubonline.
If more people would start listing more auctions at other sites there are more possibilities for the current situation to change for the better.
http://boycottebay.ohgo.com
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MrBusinessMan
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posted on June 20, 2001 05:52:00 AM new
reamond:
Use your EOA email to transmit information about your site and what other items you have for sale.
I have done the same thing for over a year with great success. Yesterday I received a "WARNING" email from ebaY telling me that doing this is considered SPAM, and if I continue I'm in jeopardy of having my account suspended.
The ironic thing here is that ALL of my auctions are Featured and Featured in category. This means that ebaY makes $123 and change on EVERY auction I run before the first bid is even placed. I sent them a friendly reply letting them know that they will no longer be receiving $1800 per month in LISTING fees alone from me if I'm not allowed to offer upgrades and additional items in my EOA. I haven't received a reply yet.
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bogalucy
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posted on June 20, 2001 07:26:23 AM new
I still put links on my eBay auctions. I love the idea of keeping the eBay Pleece busy this way.
On my listings I also post my ePier seller's ID, which is the same as my eBay one.
I dot.commed my eBay user ID, changed my username to the dotcom name, and registered my eBay name on at least six of the lesser known auctions sites plus Yahoo and Amazon.
So far its been working amazingly well. I am selling way more stuff on ePier now than I ever though possible. I have links on my ePier listings to my website and e-Store there, so this system seems to be working quite well after all is said and done!
Pffffttttt to the eBoys - that's what I say!
[ edited by bogalucy on Jun 20, 2001 07:32 AM ]
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spittingcamel
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posted on June 20, 2001 03:03:32 PM new
What I was trying to get at are new ideas, outside of the auction realm. I have done the website promos in the auctions, reminded winners of the "more items like this on our website", in our emails, included coupons with the product. We have even done the person to person thing at shows. We even do cross promotions with a "brick & mortor". Outside of spending a fortune in an advertising campaingn. Has anyone had good luck with any of the site that are supposed to increase your hits. If so is the cost worth it? Who should you avoid?
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reamond
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posted on June 20, 2001 03:14:28 PM new
Businessman- If they suspend me for private and consenting communication between me and my buyers, it will make an interesting court case.
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MrBusinessMan
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posted on June 20, 2001 05:44:26 PM new
reamond:
I decided to suspend my Featured and Featured in Category listings for a few weeks and let them see that they're losing a lot more than they will ever gain with this assinine policy. The only question is, will they even notice? I doubt it. $1800 a month to ebaY is nothing. But I'm gonna give it a shot anyway.
It seems to me that it would be in ebaY's best interest to cut a seller a little slack when his listings generate $123 each even before the first bid is placed.
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reamond
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posted on June 21, 2001 01:11:00 AM new
Businessman- Experiment a little- I have found that featured auctions don't always yeild as many buyers as regular listings - but I haven't nailed down why this occurs yet- I am still studying time frames etc..
Also, with the new "service" of eBay emailing your under bidder buyers notice of other similar auctions, it may not be wise to invest in featured auctions. Let another seller pay for the featured listings and let eBay spam the under bidders to your auction.
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MrBusinessMan
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posted on June 21, 2001 05:29:54 AM new
reamond:
I HAVE experimented. Extensively. I have found that by featuring my auctions and offering upgrades to the items won, I make up the $123 listing fee several times over. If I run the same listings without featuring them, I net a small fraction of what I net with the featured listings. I agree with you that featuring auctions often doesn't really pay off. But with the items that I sell and the categories that I sell in it pays off many times over.
What I don't understand is why ebaY doesn't take into account the amount of listing fees generated by featured auctions and grant a little leeway to the seller acordingly. After all, the bottom line is their main (only?) goal and we all know that. By in effect forcing me to abandon Featured listings, THEIR bottom line AND mine will suffer (in direct contrast to what they're trying to accomplish). What's wrong with the minds at ebaY? Do they not have the ability to use simple math and logic in order to come to an intelligent conclusion?
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reamond
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posted on June 21, 2001 09:42:11 AM new
Businessman - If it is the case that your revenue will suffer by not listing featured, then I would go ahead and list featured. The amount of money you generate for eBay is significant for an individual, but it is not significant overall for eBay to waive their policy.
The best revenge is success.
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wbbell
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posted on June 21, 2001 11:00:05 AM new
MrBusinessMan, did you ever find anything in the official eBay TOS that said you couldn't put a deal/website in the EOA?
Here is all I could find in safeharbor regarding SPAM.
Sending spam - Sending unsolicited (without prior permission), commercial email. Examples:
Sending unsolicited offers to bidders for the same or similar products that they have bid on in the past
Soliciting a seller to sell a listed item outside of eBay.
I can see eBay's point about dictating what we put on their website (though not necessarily agree with it). But dictating what we say in our email is really bordering on ridiculous.
I recently got a website going and started putting a "deal" in my EOA and seeing very promising results thus far. If (when) I get a warning I would challenge eBay to show what TOS this violates.
[ ubb ]
[ edited by wbbell on Jun 21, 2001 11:01 AM ]
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reamond
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posted on June 21, 2001 12:25:15 PM new
Even if eBay invented a rule that you could not offer information about other items for sale and/or a web site in your communication with a buyer after the auction close, IMHO it would sound causes of civil action in Tortious Interference with a Business Relationship, as well as Restraint of Trade. I'm sure my lawyer could come up with a dozen other causes of action, as well as class action status.
It does not qualify as "spam" by any definition, or eBay has been spamming all of us for quite a while.
It would be extremely hard for eBay to maintain its "venue" status and dictate or interfere with business relationships after the auction is completed. Imagine if a classified advertiser dictated what you could say to a caller for the item you listed.
eBay's business model may not make it, in spite of the growth and success it has accomplished. I remember a classified ad paper that allowed free listings and you only paid them if the item sold. Policing what was actually sold and what wasn't made the paper cost prohibitive and it failed.
If eBay depends on revenue growth from all sales moving through eBay's fee structure, it may cost more to police and enforce the model than the profits from the "venue" generate. Remember, eBay's profits are only pennies a share. If eBay thinks small sellers are a problem in this matter, the big corporations are even more astute of branding and capturing customers and the vulnerable position they would be in if increasingly dependant on eBay for online sales. As we have seen with large retailers already on the site, they have links to their own sites. They view eBay as a way to steer buyers to their own site, as one admitted in an article about this issue.
In fact, I doubt any large retailer would deal with eBay if they were prohibited through technology or otherwise from steering buyers to a site the retailer controlls.
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MrBusinessMan
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posted on June 21, 2001 02:43:53 PM new
The following is the email from SafeHarbor in it's entirety:
Dear xxxxxxx ([email protected]),
Recently we became aware your eBay registered account was involved in the following activity:
* Sending Spam - Spam is the sending of unsolicited, commercial email including unwanted email to past bidders. This also includes sending End of Auction emails that offer price upgraded products.
which is not permitted at eBay.
We realize you may not have been aware that there was a rule against this activity. Therefore, we would like to take this opportunity to invite you to review our site policies, which can be found at:
http://pages.ebay.com/help/community/investigates.html#misc
Please understand our goal is to help you understand our policies to ensure successful experiences at eBay. Therefore, we respectfully request that you refrain from this activity in the future to avoid the possibility of a suspension of your eBay registration.
Thank you in advance for your cooperation in this important matter.
Regards,
XXXXX XXXXX ([email protected])
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reamond
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posted on June 21, 2001 03:14:06 PM new
Businessman- Well.... price upgraded products would not be the same as separate products or advertising your web site. But it still apears to be interference by eBay with your business relationship with your buyer- they're just a "venue" you know. At some point the privity with the "venue" must end. The end of the auction seems to be the end of eBay's limited involvement as "just a venue".
I would consult an attorney and see what he/she thinks of the situation. They may take the case on contingency.
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siddielou
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posted on June 21, 2001 04:31:56 PM new
Hi,
If you're serious about consulting a lawyer but can't afford one try your local law school's clinic. Different schools have different policies about who they serve and the types of legal problems they'll involve themselves in (some schools only serve poorer communities, others are more liberal with sliding scales, others look for those unique cases, etc.)
When you call tell them you're concerned about the buisness aspect of it but also the Freedom of Speech and IP (intellectual property aspects).
Good luck,
Sid.
PS - You might want to double check the user agreement. I imagine like every other company on earth it calls for binding arbitration but ya never know until you ask.
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reamond
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posted on June 21, 2001 04:41:45 PM new
The arbitration rule wouldn't apply because the elements at issue are outside the agreement with eBay and its role in the transaction.
Also, many attorneys offer a free initial consultation. If they smell money and a good case, they may offer a contingency. A successful class action suit would retire most attorneys.
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reamond
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posted on June 21, 2001 04:42:11 PM new
The arbitration rule wouldn't apply because the elements at issue are outside the agreement with eBay and its role in the transaction.
Also, many attorneys offer a free initial consultation. If they smell money and a good case, they may offer a contingency. A successful class action suit would retire most attorneys.
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wbbell
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posted on June 21, 2001 05:16:24 PM new
I defy eBay to send me that email. I will challenge them to point out anything in their TOS that was violated.
You just can't redefine the word SPAM as it suits your need at the moment. Put it in your TOS and have me agree to it, and then I can take a risk as desired.
I know I am preaching to the choir here . . .
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dacreson
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posted on June 21, 2001 05:44:49 PM new
Hello All;
I always enjoy reading the "boards" as usual this time of year. You all seam to be missing the point, eBay or any other auction house in not in charge of your business plan YOU ARE and if it don’t work? It is not eBays fault it is YOURS.
Business plan #1 DON’T assume anything. #2 don’t assume the good old days will last
#3 Do you remember "Henney Penny" rule ” don’t put all your auctions in one location”,
How did you survive before eBay? All the other sites are great except no buyers,
Come on get on with your life; is the only one you will have??? Dave
[email protected]
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MrBusinessMan
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posted on June 21, 2001 06:04:31 PM new
I sent SafeHarbor another email this afternoon asking them to provide a link to the specific rule being broken. They haven't responded as of yet.
Finding a good attorney isn't an issue. I have one of the best on retainer and he is aware of the issue and is currently doing some preliminary research into the matter. Right now we're basically waiting to see how and if ebaY reponds. I'm not interested in pursuing a lawsuit at this time but I may after a couple of weeks. First I want to give ebaY the opportunity to fly straight (and I'm documenting every move). I HAVE let ebaY know how much they're missing in listing fees by my refusal to list Featured and Featured in Category auctions until this has been resolved.
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