posted on June 25, 2001 04:50:10 AM
Airguy, that made me laugh. Thanks. I wonder what eBay or ReturnBuy would do if you used it, cuz you know, if it is OK for ReturnBuy to do..........
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[ edited by revvassago on Jun 25, 2001 04:50 AM ]
posted on June 25, 2001 05:48:06 AM
I just checked quite a few of ReturnBuy's auctions and frankly, I'm not sure I'm seeing anything wrong here anymore. I don't see a PowerSeller Logo on their auctions, so evidently they haven't been able to maintain their feedback ratio. In checking links, there are no overt mentions of selling off-site or a customer sign-up, unless the customer service link can be used to build a customer list. Of course, that can be a huge loophole in eBay's links policy...
vidpro2
[ edited by vidpro2 on Jun 25, 2001 05:53 AM ]
posted on June 25, 2001 06:27:05 AM
it would appear that they have complied with their parent company, eBay, and removed offsite links....
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posted on June 25, 2001 09:20:12 AM
Hi vidpro2. Well. it looks like the complaints worked. As of June 21 ReturnBuy still had 3 links to their ME page other than the one included by eBay. Now I can't find those pages anywhere so I wonder where they went? Thanks for contacting eBay about this matter and for the AuctionBytes news report. I'm sure this helped to force eBay to clean up their act.
Now we need to do something about Hardrock.com since they have blatant links to their homepage directly on their auction listing page. They also have a not so blatant one in their HARD ROCK CAFE FOUNDATION link located at the bottom of the page.
I've never been one to turn in other auctions for violations because I just didn't think it was any of my business and I don't like the fact that eBay relies on it's users to "tattle" on other users. However, I'm going to make an exception in the case of these large retailers because I now think this IS my business. There's no way a small seller can compete with the BIG BOYS if the rules aren't applied evenly to everyone. I hope others will do the same. Since eBay won't do anything without a complaint, maybe we need to start complaining.
It's sad but true.
(I've edited out the link to Hardrock.com's auction per instructions from the moderator. I thought it was OK to provide an auction link if the seller was a large retail company but apparently I was mistaken.)
Blanche
[ edited by bhearsch on Jun 25, 2001 09:44 AM ]
posted on June 25, 2001 09:31:34 AM
BTW, ReturnBuy's CUSTOMER SERVICE LINK is in violation of eBay's policy concerning email sign-up lists IMO. Why can't the rest of us have a similar link in our auctions? Wouldn't that get around the issue of collecting OPT IN email addresses?
Blanche
[ edited by bhearsch on Jun 25, 2001 09:34 AM ]
posted on June 25, 2001 09:35:18 AM
No, it isn't the size of the company that allows the link, it is the fact that eBay invested in ReturnBuy that we could provide links. I would guess that the moderator will ask for you to edit fairly soon....
But I see your point, and am going to report them to safeharbor as well.
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posted on June 25, 2001 12:12:39 PM
you know I haven't even complained about the big boys yet, or anyone where these new rules apply for that matter. I do cringe and get hot under the collar when I see a competitor selling like items and I feel he has given himself an advantage by listing against the rules, but still I haven't acted against any of them. Yes I've copied and altered their auction templates, if you've looked at my link you know what I'm talking about. If the abuse that I feel is happening, keeps happening, I will start listing my auctions the same as theirs. I have made copies of several of the large sellers auctions that are in violation of their policies and have kept a file on these from the deadline date on the 31st.
eBay is the biggest "big boy" of them all, or in some cases the biggest bully. If they want to end my auctions with bids, and damage my business for following business practices that they allow on their site by other, larger, companies then I will take them to Court. eBay by their rules say that you will be sent an "educational email" and you will be given 14 days to come into compliance(as they have 10 day auctions I feel it should be 20 day but that's just me) it has been my experience in the past that they have ended my auctions with bids and given me 24 hours to come into compliance. In the case I mention here no one that I talked with on the phone at eBay could tell me why the person at ebay had done what they did by killing my auctions. I should have taken them to court then.
I have software, just like most people, that I can set to refresh and track my auctions. If I decide to list like the "big boys" I'll set it to refresh and let it rip, if they want to close 1000 auctions, oven half with bids like the last time, they can compensate me for the damages of the monies lost or I will see them in court. This is what they should expect because that is how they seem to like playing the game.
So by turning in all the violators, with the exception of return buy because after all they are owned in part by the people that make the rules and should have been in compliance from day one, I wouldn't turn in anybody, ever. If you start turning in people your doing eBays work for them, and when they are done with this round of noose tightening, they will start another and again rely on the users to help enforce the new rules. If you do help eBay by turning in sellers don't complain when the rules become so restrictive that they are now placing the noose around your neck and ask other members to pull the trap door handle.
Sure it is only a matter of time until ebay is a "closed house" or a closed selling system, I like what someone else called it "the most efficient vending machine on the planet" or something to that effect. Well if ebay wants us to stock their monopolistic vending machine, and continue to do so, they need to find ways of making money without restricting free trade.
posted on June 25, 2001 02:11:14 PM
Here is eBay's response to the ReturnBuy situation:
The PowerSeller logo has not been removed by eBay. eBay is not sure why the PowerSeller logo is not being displayed by ReturnBuy, more than likely it was taken down by the seller itself and it's not known whether it's temporary or permanent.
The links that are shown on the "View Auction" page comply with eBay's rules. You may have a link to a page where buyers may ask questions about a product that is being sold. According to eBay's Listing Policy:http://pages.ebay.com/help/community/png-list.html#1
Essentially, it falls within eBay's "two-click" rule.
posted on June 27, 2001 09:49:24 AMUPDATE REGARDING HARDROCK.COM
I just received this email from SafeHarbor:
Hello,
Thank you for writing to us regarding this listing. I'll be happy to explain what has been done in this matter.
Upon review of the information that you have provided, we have determined that the seller has violated eBay policy. I wanted to let you know that I have warned the member against any future activity of this type.
For more information on our listing guidelines, please visit our policy page at the following URL:
posted on June 27, 2001 10:11:39 AM
Now if ReturnBuy will just start using pictures of the actual item they are selling or at least pictures of the same number of components offered in the auction and remove completely contradictory terms in their description such as "Tested and working" and we offer no opinion on the working condition and "all sales final', then even more headway will have been made.
I certainly would not review other sellers listings in such detail but ReturnBuy is a special case as they are partially owned by eBay.
Don't think they should go into competition against us but since they have it would be nice if they were honest and straight forward in their listings and meet the standards that they hold us to.
posted on June 27, 2001 10:31:50 AM
The thing I don't understand is why ReturnBuy needed 15 million dollars in investments to sell items on eBay. I know eBay's fees are high, but I didn't realize they were THAT high.
Their board of directors must be bringing home some fat checks...
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posted on June 27, 2001 10:50:46 AM
If eBay came to you and said "I would like to invest millions in your company. I will help you grow large and profitable. When the time comes there will be an IPO and we both will make all of our investment back and profit by many millioms and millions and millions of dollars".
Would you accept the offer?
Could you find somewhere to use the money even if most of it was just as a bank account?
Don't think they would have to ask me twice.
(You can't buy me cheap but that doesn't mean I'm not for sale.)
PS I don't want a big corner office but a small office with portholes that's floating around the Caribbean would be nice.
posted on June 27, 2001 11:29:48 AM
Then consider this my initial request for inverstors to bring their money.
Come on, eBay! If you are bringing candy for one person to class, you have to bring it for the whole class!
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posted on June 27, 2001 01:04:58 PM
I looked at their auctions, and you know what I found disturbing? They won't ship to APOs and FPOs. That's a FINE way to treat our guys and gals in uniform.
Alaska and Hawaii are part of the US also, but the excluding of Service Persons overseas is more disturbing.
posted on June 27, 2001 03:37:24 PM
Hello revvassago. I received a similar reply from eBay concerning HardRock Cafe. I read in a June 23 TAGnotes newsletter that HardRock Cafe had been reported for 12 days by various eBay users and so I'm wondering why it took so long for eBay to take action.
QUOTE from TAGnotes:
"Hard Rock Café has been reported for 12 days by
various ebaY users for their violations, and ebaY has done
NOTHING about these auctions. The same is true for the PGA
auction TAG included in the last issue of TAGnotes, which has links
to the PGA website and other links all in violation."
END QUOTE
I just don't see any other way to keep the playing field level between the BIG BOYS and the rest of us without reporting their auction violations. EBay doesn't have ownership in HardRock Cafe but it does have a partnership agreement with them regarding the use of their API. I don't see much difference between the partners eBay has ownership in and those that it doesn't. To me a partner is a partner and they need to play by the same rules that are forced on the rest of the "community". I keep thinking that if we stop these large retailers from providing links to their websites they may quickly become disenchanted with listing on eBay which will force eBay to allow the use of website links again on our auction listing page. I know --- wishful thinking and all of that.
posted on June 27, 2001 03:44:06 PM
If you really want to stick it to eBay, you should NOT inform them or SafeHarbour. Collect and organize the information and links in a factual bullet-point manner, and send it off to the media sites.
Pretend it's a real-life X-Files: you have to expose the truth. Sending emails to them so they can quietly clean up their act is only helping them. They'll keep doing it until they get the emails. But if their double standards are exposed to the public at large, they may think twice about doing this sort of thing again.
posted on June 27, 2001 03:55:50 PMbobokiki2: This isn't a matter of "sticking it to eBay". This is about high volume, highly funded sellers not following eBay rules, while the rest of us are. I don't like a lot of eBay's rules, especially the one about offsite links. But, if I have to follow the rules, then so do the big guys.
Therefore, every time I find someone violating eBay's rules, I am going to report it to SafeHarbor. Maybe if enough of the big sellers get nailed by eBay, they will start complaining, and eBay will listen. Because it sure doesn't do anything when the little guy complains.
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posted on June 29, 2001 05:01:03 PM
From an email from Powerseller support, the subject being about why an auction in violation of the links policy was allowed to run (seller PGA)while other smaller sellers auctions are closed. ebaY said -
"The member to which you refer has been reported numerous times and we
have taken appropriate action. I understand your frustration but would
like to remind you that, according to the User Agreement, eBay retains
the right to end any listing as they see fit without warning/alerting
the seller." and "The seller to which you refer has an account higher than a Gold account
with their own private account manager who has been alerted to this
situation. The account manager is working with the seller to correct the
problem as soon as possible. As powersellers are given a certain amount
of deference when it comes to their accounts as opposed to regular
sellers, these special sellers who are higher than Gold Powersellers are
given the same amount of deference as opposed to Bronze level
powersellers. That is why the auction has not been removed." and "In regards to your last question, eBay enforces all of our policies equally, however, when and how we enforce them is determined by various
factors - one of them being the level of the powerseller account. Rest
assured that this seller's auctions will be brought into compliance very
soon."
It becomes interesting to see how ebaY defines "equally" - and as we all know abd this confirms - some sellers are more equal than others. -Rosalinda
posted on June 29, 2001 05:25:43 PM
nothing really new here, the more pay for the more you get, and if they are above a gold powerseller, with eBay, they still are not getting what they have paid for.
posted on July 23, 2001 11:07:41 PM
I know the tagnotes lady was following up on some of the bigger offenders to the links changes at ebay and how some of the sellers were getting preferential treatment funny how these guys can have links back to their web site and they have items for sale on the first page that pops up.
I've sent emails to safeharbor asking what's up and they haven't even emailed me back and it has been 6 days. I've sent emails through the power seller channels and still nothing. So I guess this does prove once and for all that there are two sets of rules for sellers on eaby.
posted on July 23, 2001 11:28:10 PM
I love reading these posts, but hate getting in the middle. However, I just wanted to say that I have done business with ReturnBuy, and am very happy with them. At first, I was a little turned off by the terms of their auctions with all the restrictions and high shipping. But I would rather do business with someone who lays all the rules out in advance. Their specific terms of sale are alot better that one line descriptions with "buyer pays shipping". At least I knew what to expect. And a lot of their negative feedback deals with high shipping prices. Those are stated up front. I guess that puts us back to the "Bidders Don't Read" arguement. I have been buying and selling on eBay for about 2 years. I have had good and bad bidders and sellers. These guys are good sellers. Auction was paid for in 24 hours, package was at my house in 4 days. All sellers should do so well. How do you meet that standard?
posted on July 24, 2001 11:11:23 AM
Here is an interesting thought....
Say you are a seller and you got booted from eBay for having links in your auctions or any of the other rules that ReturnBuy is breaking. eBay is at least a partial owner of ReturnBuy.
Hmmm ....
In this case you as the NARU seller could make a tidy sum with the right lawyer.
