posted on February 13, 2001 09:10:48 AM new
Someone pass the rose colored glasses and the koolaid.
I wonder when people cite failing companies as an example that what is happening at the one they participate in is okay. Gold's is gone and their business plan should not be looked at when citing success.
To use eBay's 20 million and actually think I or someone else expects to see someone with 20 million unique feedback is ridiculous.
I just randomly picked out a sellers on eBay.
623 feedbacks total. 612 uniqe.
another
1289 feedbacks total. 1143 unique.
324 feedbacks 303 unique
1088 feedbacks 902 uniqe.
Now if you were to compare the buyers on the uniqe feedback I just posted you will be lucky to find out of almost 3,000 feedbacks that any of those 4 sellers sold to the same user ID.
You visit BidBay and you will be lucky to find in all that feedback someone who isn't on another persons feedback.
In other words. It's all the same people buying from the same people. Over and over again.
You yourself have over 2300 feedback with only 33 unique users. Your unique feedback percentage is less than 2%
And adding together the numbers I put up on the other post less than 7% of that is unique.
That is a very telling number. 2% and 7% is not a reason to boast. The highest I have found so far is 12.5% and that is just one person.
Now you look at the eBay feedback numbers they are all over the 95% range actually teetering around the 98% range.
I don't expect BidBay to have these kind of numbers, but with a claim of 4 million users I would expect to see that percentage up in the late 20's and even 30's for the most recognizable users on BidBay.
Why aren't you running any auctions again? Well except for the World Shop one.
But to get back to eBay's 20 mil. You and I know it's both a numbers game.
I dont expect to have 20 million people to view my auctions.
But I do expect to have hundreds if not thousands view the category I list an item in.
That in turn might get me a hundred hits which then turns into 2-4 bids if I'm lucky.
The simple fact is though I am only getting 5 to 30 hits at eBay on most of my items I am still selling with over a 75% completion rate.
There are not just that many buyers at BidBay period. This is something people can deny until the cows come home but it is quite evident.
I'll be awaiting the next look for that silver lining comment.
posted on February 13, 2001 10:13:52 AM new
To bad you couldn't get those feedback comments from 1995 could you or even 1996? Because of this your whole post is moot. It is well known also many don't even leave additional feedback comments on ebay because they don't boost the number next to your user ID. LOL You completely missed my point. Guess you have not been around that long?
Anyway you have proven you can't listen to reason can you or maybe you don't want too?
Glad you seen I had that world shop up. It has seven bids on it. Pretty good bidding battle, Heck even one of the bidders I've never even seen on the chat board.
posted on February 13, 2001 10:30:15 AM new
"Anyway you have proven you can't listen to reason can you or maybe you don't want too?"
Why is it that everybody here debates by telling their point of view and waiting for a resonse except for the cult members? Their posts are always hostile and insulting.
It's as if they are taking the critisism of BB like critisism towards their children. It's an auction site. You don't own it. You didn't make it. You just put your items up their and make the owners wealthy.
posted on February 13, 2001 10:43:36 AM new
with all the talk of bidbay I went in to look around. Here is what I found. The numbers say on the front page:1,400,158 items in 2,242 categories. Yet further research found this.
In the $1 and UNDER section (junk)
Avon samples 13,525
Beanie Cards 5928
Recipes 242,959 !!!!!!!!!!!
Sports cards 11,745
Now in the play money Bidbay Buck section:
recipes 127,110 !!!!!!!!!!
Sports cards 2029
Household 2292
General 8192
(130 pages of bidbay buck items!!) Was I impressed?? Hardly.....Siskel and Ebert gives Bidbay a 1 on a scale of 1-10, ten being best!!!
posted on February 13, 2001 10:52:50 AM new
Actually Vette I already know the answer as you have told me I'm sorry you don't wish to share with the rest of the online auction community.
posted on February 13, 2001 11:05:32 AM new
I searched Katzbiz and got page cant be found.
I quess I am Kaputz.
Hey auctiongallery2, Do you own stock in Koolaid L.O.L
[ edited by snoopyone on Feb 13, 2001 11:06 AM ]
[ edited by snoopyone on Feb 13, 2001 11:06 AM ]
posted on February 13, 2001 09:02:22 PM new
auctiongaurd,
I have deleted two earlier posts because you mentioned auction I.D's. The Community Guidelines have specific instructions to follow when mentioning any identifying auction information.
Please have a look at the CG's before you post an auction I.D.
Joice
Moderator.
*edited to add the second I.D. deletion
[ edited by joice on Feb 13, 2001 09:11 PM ]
posted on February 14, 2001 08:12:51 AM new
Hello everyone,
Mntmama emailed me this information which we both feel should be posted on this thread. I find this information to be true and correct. For some reason she can't post now and no one knows why.
eBay first launched in Sept. 1995, with Labor Day being the first completed auction. Anyone could leave feedback as feedback didn't become transactional until Sept. 1999. This was, in part, due to negative
feedback bombing.
eBay does remove feedback if it's deemed to be defamation of character, racial slurs, profanity or harmful to the seller's reputation. They do not remove retaliatory feedback, as they feel it is the person's right to voice their statement.
eBay never used to get involved in transactions in the past. It wasn't
until fairly recently that they put the deadbeat program into effect. eBay also does not get involved in disputes in e-mail. eBay will not call a user to settle things, eBay does get involved in chatboard discussions and has NARU'd people for causing trouble or mentioning other sites.
.
eBay has successfully sued a chatboard user recently.
eBay's CEO is not Pierre at present, however when he was the CEO he was actively involved in the chats in the early days.
eBay had contests, sweepstakes, etc as stated in the press release below. They also pay users to help other users, by awarding Skippy Credits, which used to be $25.00 each time, now I believe it's dropped to $10. People believe that Skippy is really Pierre, but Skippy claims he's the Chief Engineer.
eBay parterned with First Auction in Sept. 1997. At that time eBay only had 371 categories and First Auction was the fastest growing on-line auction site. (Press release:
Internet Shopping Network And eBay Partner To Expand Auction Capabilities
Sunnyvale, Calif. - Jan. 13, 1998
First Auction ( www.firstauction.com ), the online auction site from
Internet Shopping Network and eBay ( www.ebay.com ), the largest
person to person auction site on the Internet, today announced a
partnership agreement that would significantly expand the reach and
scope
of both commerce sites. "People are bidding on First Auction because
they can get great deals and experience the thrill of interactive
auctions
online," said Kirk Loevner, President and CEO of Internet Shopping
Network. "eBay's hundreds of thousands of person to person auctions
provide even more opportunities to save dollars and offers more
excitement for our growing customer base," added Loevner.
"The partnership with First Auction offers eBay visitors access to the
premier online auction site offering a wide selection of brand name
merchandise and unrivalled customer service," said Pierre Omidyar,
CEO
of eBay.
Both eBay and First Auction have significant presence on each other's
sites, including links to various merchandise categories. Future
promotions,
contests and sweepstakes will be available to users of both sites.
While the two companies will actively promote each other's commerce
sites, both will maintain their strict policies of keeping members
email
addresses and other membership information separate and confidential.
The partnership greatly benefits online auction customers, who can
now
experience the largest "person to person" auction site and the
widest
selection of new auction merchandise on the Internet. The
increasing
popularity of online auctions has made it the fastest growing sector
of
Internet commerce.
About First Auction Launched in June of 1997, First Auction has become
the fastest growing online auction site offering brand name
merchandise.
Over 5,000 items are auctioned each week with merchandise ranging from
computers and consumer electronics to housewares and jewelry. "Flash
Auctions," which last thirty minutes and have an opening bid price of
one
dollar, are an exclusive feature of First Auction.
About Internet Shopping Network Internet Shopping Network (
www.isn.com ) is a wholly owned subsidiary of Home Shopping
Network. ISN's Computer Superstore ( www.css.isn.com ) was the first
online store in the world when it was launched in April 1994. First
Auction
( www.firstauction.com ) is a new commerce site featuring computer,
consumer electronics and Home Shopping Network merchandise sold in
an online auction format. Shoppers can find Internet Shopping Network
at
www.isn.com
About eBay, Inc. eBay, ( www.ebay.com ) the pioneer of the
person-to-person online auction, hosts auctions in 371 categories,
including collectibles, antiques, memorabilia, trading cards, toys,
dolls,
coins, stamps, books and magazines, and jewelry and gemstones. More
than 25,000 new items are added each day and more than three million
items have been sold on eBay since its inception in September 1995. "
posted on February 14, 2001 08:33:23 AM new
Nice post, but what was the relevance? Did that information somehow give us new light on BidBay? This is a thread titled "Rate BidBay".
Also, what are the sources of that info. Obviously the press release came from eBay, but what about the first few paragraphs? What is the source of this information?
posted on February 14, 2001 08:44:11 AM new
When Ebay launched their site, online auctions were something totally new, and few people were online then.Their feedback system has evolved with the times and it DOES mean something, and tells you about the buyer or seller.I have not bid on items at Ebay because of a sellers FB. Bidbay's FB system, to me, is meaningless. I took a look around before this posting at some of the "power sellers" at BB.One seller had 3258 positives....from 103 unique members.One member left this person 661 positives on the same day, this seller returned the favor.Theses FB's were all for bidbay buck recipe auctions. So, you take a recipe (valueless, they're everywhere for free) sell it for BBB's (again valueless)
and what kind of feedback do you get? Valueless if you ask me. But when you look at the big picture their FB system fits the site perfectly. JMHO
posted on February 14, 2001 12:48:53 PM new
Vette, serious question that maybe you could answer.
This is from an interview with your ceo guy:
[b]niki_nice:
How many users do you think Bidbay will have by the end of the year[/b]
[b]bidbayceo:
By the end of the year, we are hoping to double our size. done[/b]
What happenned to the 15 million users that he had contracted for? He said that they would be all incorporated into the site within a few months, but the answer above says that he is just "hoping" to double what they have right now.
posted on February 14, 2001 03:16:26 PM new
Someone asked if we could find a seller with a big ratio of total feedback to unique users. I've found one and know this person. 21,561 positives. 12,891 unique users. There's a big difference there, but this seller has transactional feedback from repeat bidders. Pretty nice seller too. Deserves repeat business. We ALL like repeat business.
Someone else claimed eBay was established in 1996. My findings prove different.
Someone wants to know what revelance this info has on the thread. It's kind of in response to all the posts.
Bidbay is being bashed for holding contests, etc. while eBay and First Auction,
aka First eBay held them as well in the beginning. People are saying Bidbay
doesn't have enough listings while eBay only had 371 categories until the partnership.
Someone wants to know where the statements came from. The facts presented here came directly from the eBay website.
As far as the feedback, if anyone has ever listed there in the past 3 years,
you know why feedback was changed to transactional. There was quite a discussion
on it, as well as the info being on the announcement board.
For the rest of the feedback info, read the feedback forum or the user agreement.
Skippy credits? I've been the recipient of over $200 worth of Skippy Credits in
the past. You can ask anyone on the Q&A board (or other chatboards)who has been there a while if they've received any money for helping other users. This is well known there by a lot of folks. Speak to the oldtimers.
User being sued? Yep, it was right here on AW with links to the newspapers. eBay did win. The threads have just been removed recently. I had them bookmarked.
Again, go over to the Q&A at night and ask those users. They'll tell you.
Write to support and ask them if they intervene in e-mails between users. They suggest that only bodily harm threats will be taken seriously.
Other than that, report to the ISP. Every support person knows this.
Skippy has billed himself as the chief engineer. He used to post on the live support board and he still posts on the main cafe at Halloween with spooky stories he makes
up.
I understand, before my time (1998) Pierre used to post on the chat boards, but I can't verify that.
Pierre is no longer the CEO. If you go to the site they have complete bios on all the officers. There is another person who is the CEO and it's not Meg.
Hope this clears my e-mail to Coolvette up a little.
posted on February 14, 2001 03:50:25 PM new
[i]Bidbay is being bashed for holding contests, etc. while eBay and First Auction,
aka First eBay held them as well in the beginning.[/i]
I'm not quite sure what this means, but FirstAuction is not related to eBay in any way (they had a banner exchange agreement with eBay in the early days, but that's it). They're still around:
Trivia: eBay was originally intended to be more than auctions. The auction site itself was originally called AuctionWeb (AW!).
If you guys are trying to compare bidbay to eBay in the early days, the comparison is laughable if for no other reason than Pierre was pretty concerned about ethics and BidBayCEO has none that I can detect. It also doesn't help your comparison that bidbay seems to have a couple of ex-cons tightly associated with the company, and one of them is selling bidbay stock. eBay did a real IPO, with real underwriters. Bidbay's "IPO" is a bad joke.
posted on February 14, 2001 04:07:27 PM new
Wabmaster
The press release referred to eBay as About eBay so that's where I got it from, put First in there by mistake. In rereading it, I think they were trying to say About ebay meaning, this is about ebay. Sorry for the confusion.
Yes it was Auction Web in the very beginning, but then if you read the release, I guess they partnered somehow. Whether it be a banner or what, I have no idea. I came along in 1998. Just reading what was on the site. If that info is wrong, eBay really should correct it.
Pierre had ethics, Pierre also wanted it to remain a community. It's evolved into somewhat of a three ring circus with the fees going out of sight. Bye-bye to the little mom and pop seller. Sometimes people forget their roots and that's a shame.
Thanks for clarifying things for us.
[ edited by mtnmama on Feb 14, 2001 04:11 PM ]
posted on February 14, 2001 04:37:52 PM new
With regard to fees, you get what you pay for, and you're paying for exposure. It might be interesting if ebay or yahoo developed a listing fee based on page views. You could pay for as much or as little exposure as you wanted that way.
Hmm, I wonder if I could parlay this idea into an IPO
posted on February 14, 2001 06:49:02 PM new
So what eBay ran contests...I'm sure they had real eligibility requirements.
So what in the beginning eBay had a small membership. The internet was and is still very new to a lot of people.
These things don't concern me nor do they apply to BidBay's future.
AG2: I know eBay, I've listed on eBay and BidBay you are no eBay.
Regardless of what eBay did in the early years, we now know what it takes to make a successful online auction site.
And that is buyers, and plenty of them which BidBay does not have.
MtnMama Said:
Someone asked if we could find a seller with a big ratio of total feedback to unique users. I've found one and know this person. 21,561 positives. 12,891 unique users. There's a big difference there, but this seller has transactional feedback from repeat bidders. Pretty nice seller too. Deserves repeat business. We ALL like repeat business
I don't know if this answer was directed at me. But I was concerned about BidBay's sellers.
Still that eBay seller there has over 59% unique users. So far the highest I have found on BidBay is 12.5% which is not really that bad but is the exception to the rule.
In most cases the unique feedback percentage hovers between 2 and 7%.
Mine is 47% unique users on BidBay but is still only 37 uniques out of 78 feedback.
I will say it again. These numbers are very telling. They truly give you insight into what BidBay's actual user base is. And proves it is very limited.
What you also have to consider regarding that 2% and 7% unique feedback percentage is that also includes a lot of bogus buck auctions as well as auctions designed just to increase the feedback of both the buyer and seller for as little money as possible i.e. nickel and dime auctions.
I am now finding $.02 auctions on BidBay.
And I'm tired of the BidBayers who when arguing this point claim feedback is not that important.
Feedback at BidBay isn't important I agree. But at other sites where real money is exchanging hands and at far greater amounts than a nickel plus shipping feedback is extremely important.
But is also important how you read it. That's a whole other post.
And like wabmester said in regards to fees you get what you paid for and at eBay that is exposure.
And yes it is free at BidBay but remember....half off of crap is still crap.
There are lots of shooting star sellers that have huge repeat business ratios.
I'm far from a shooting star, but my feedback is 290, 266 unique users. I like the repeat
business.
As far as nickel sales, eBay has Club99, where people start auctions at .99. So what if you sell 10 items at .99 or 1 item at 9.99? It's all the same.
Lots of folks at ebay start their auctions at one (1) penny.
You ought to see the bids these folks generate. I know one seller who used to do that and most of his items used to go up into the $400 range at the end. It's an auction, not a set fee site. It's what you have to sell not how much you list it for that counts.
I noticed you're fairly new over there and I wish you much success. But, you haven't been around there as long as some of us to see all the trials and tribulations the site has gone through to get where it is today.
You say in '95 the Internet was unchartered waters, but I had websites back then and was selling on line from them. It wasn't as unchartered as you may think. Now, if you want to go wayyyy back to the early 90's, I could see statements saying no one knew anything - but 1995? That's when my son developed his own business at age 14 on the Internet.
I can't compare my sales on ebay to my sales on BidBay. It's way too early for that.
posted on February 14, 2001 09:46:49 PM new
mtnmama,
you are clearly missing the point.
Yes people start bids at a penny on eBay I do that quite often on a couple of items I know will generate more money than that.
But I would not dare do that on BidBay for fear of losing alot of money because there are not enough bidders to always support a bidding war that will drive the price up.
And if the argument is as one person put it on their board that they will not sell because it's not what people are interested in...that just proves why BidBay is not the place to list. Because these items do sell when I list them on eBay where the buyer pool is thousands of times larger.
And as far as selling items on eBay for $.99 I have done the same. But usually they buy 5-20 of those items and that is done in a dutch auction where I list 100 and the listing only cost me $2.00
I am not concerned with eBay sellers who have repeat business because their repeat business keeps them still in over 50% unique buyers. That means there is a larger buying pool out there. Whereas BidBay's largest unique buying percentage I have found is just 12.5% and that is one user.
Most others are in the 2 to 7 % range.
Just taking a look at your feedback out of 41 unique users only 2 names I have not seen before...get the point?
The point of this is that regardless of what the BidBay front page claims there to be in users there are very little real users on that site as there is very little actual auctions running.
There are no buyers, too many junk listings, a horrible search engine and this creates problems for the sellers.
What buyers there are are the same people who participate in the contests, on the chat boards buying or should I say swapping bidbay bucks with each other.
The more BidBay and it's member base attempts to defend their numbers the more people see right through them.
posted on February 14, 2001 10:04:09 PM new
And regarding my being fairly new to eBay.
I joined up in June of 2000. Didn't start listing there seriously until December of 2000 ( was wasting my time on BidBay)and in just a little over 2 months I have left over 185 transactions compared to you leaving 367 in almost 3 years.
And regarding the internet...the statement was that "the internet was new and still is very new to some people."
I stand by that statement. As far as setting up a website...that's no magical feat. Heck everyone has a website.
I could point you to over half a dozen I have created some in a matter of hours and when I first went online it was with a Dell enhanced 386 laptop with a 1200 baud modem...so I've been surfing the net quite awhile myself.
The simple fact is that online participation has grown almost exponentially in the last 5 years.
I'm glad you were with eBay during the "trials and tribulations" this still does not negate the fact that BidBay does not have the buyers or sellers for that fact that it claims to.
CEO even said in the chat on OAUA that by the end of the year they hope to double their membership...that would mean 8 million.
But he also claims to have signed up with a company for 15 million users and claims he will have them registered by the end of the year. That's a difference of 7 million people.
I think the CEO of BidBay is getting confused as to what he has claimed one day from the next. Usually a sign of fudging something.
