posted on July 15, 2001 04:18:59 PM
A bit long I know, yawn if you like, better yet, skip it.
I don't accept paypal, or any other payment service. I state that I take Bidpay, but only because I don't have to pay them to get paid. Ive been selling on ebay for 3 years. My sales have always been excellent, except a dip here and there. I complained about sluggish sales once or twice and blamed it on the influx of millions of extra sellers saturating the shelves. I've diverted my attention to more unique and desirable items and sales came back up nicely. My sell through rate has never been below 63%, usually aroud %79. I just had 32 auctions end with only one not selling, for a total of $1845.00. None of the sold items had less than 3 bids. About half had over 6. and a little less than a third had over 8. Several of the items brought prices that reminded me of the old days. A few I thought were a little soft. Only one buyer asked me why I didn't accept paypal, as it was so convenient for him. He thought it was free for sellers! I told him if writing a check was too much trouble I'd gladly offer him out of the sale with no bad feelings at all and sell the item to the underbidder.I also sent him here to AW and told him to read any of the daily threads complaining about them. He apparently recalled that writing a check really isn't that much trouble.
I don't believe that not accepting them has affected my sales at all. The only way I would consider giving up my profits to yet another 3rd party vendor is if I was selling stuff you could get at a retail outlet or items that there are several of at any given time. Perhaps then I would have to adress that type of competition with tactics to attract customers away from other listings of the same. Perhaps not, I see a few other things as INFINATELY more important in attracting customers than offering them a way to pay without taking their hands out of their pockets.
Iteresting to note is one item I sold in a catagory that actually had several, about 12, of the same item, some with extras most without. A quick research told me the best I could hope for was about $80, with most, depending on condition, in the 40 to 100 range. Mine ended at over 150, despite others simultaneously selling and in better shape than mine. A fluke maybe.
I don't accept pPaypal and I'm not going to lose any business to anybody. And if some did skip my auction because I didn't take them?...Well,...OK. If some one skips my sale for the sole reason that it make them bend their wrist to write a check, well, Its obvious that they didn't REALLY want it anyway, so I'm not losing anything.
When technology has us manipulating our computers with eye contact (or something even less physical), I guess the complaint will be "....nope, not me, I'd never bid on a sale that makes me move my head, no way..."....."yeah, send him over here, at my auctions he doesn't even have to be awake, with that new slumberbidder. I hear it'll always be free too!"...."asleep!?, ya mean your customers are alive?? why some of our customers are dead! We're using eternapay....."
posted on July 15, 2001 06:13:23 PM
>If some one skips my sale for the sole reason that it make them bend their wrist to write a check, well, Its obvious that they didn't REALLY want it anyway, so I'm not losing anything.<
I completly understand why some sellers don't like PayPal. 'Bully' for those of you that proceed without it sans any 'bumps' in your ebay road. Congratulations.
However, in the same regards, please don't 'dis' those of us that proceed without abandon into the PP oblivion. We choose to continue just as you decided against.
I believe that we have seem many Billpoint problems also, and it they were nearly as big as PP the ratio would be the same, if not greater.
I just scanned 20 auction at random, 14 took PayPal, 3 were Billpoint friendly.
(of course your results may vary)
As for......
>>didn't REALLY want it anyway<<
...MOST of the items that I bid on I REALLY don't want, once I think about it.
(but, it's so easy to use PP money to pay for all those things I really don't think about it until later and that fact alone makes me think that PayPal ain't all bad to have on your SELLING side)
posted on July 15, 2001 06:47:07 PM
Valid points, to be sure. Sorry for any inference that accepting this service, even if your items aren't usual fare, is not a good descision for anyone or everyone.
I do take the position that not accepting it is foolish and that it has any signifigant bearing on your auction's success (depending what and where you sell), and not bidding for the sole reason of the extra "trouble" it is to pay manually is, well, ridiculous. I'm sure though that there are some good reasons that using paypal or something similar gives some the feeling of essentiality. Such as the ability to chargeback.
While I understand that some of us have such busy lives, I also think that the state of human laziness is reaching new levels of absurdity for a very visible few, while the majority of thinking men are as yet unimpressed with technologies that compete to save users even the slightest effort. JMO
posted on July 15, 2001 09:23:54 PM
PayPal ... No PayPal, that is NOT the question. I think I've read enough. I have stronger feelings on the subject than any I've seen and I'll keep them to myself. This topic is too well worn out for any thinking person to seriously believe he/she has anything new or of value to add.
Excuse me for running, but I've got a business to run and this thread has not been much help.
posted on July 15, 2001 10:34:48 PM
Well that was a real closer. But here's my $.02 cents anyway.
I, personally, will not bid on an auction that does not accept paypal.
Perhaps if you're buying the same thing that a dozen other sellers are offering, you can afford to be choosy. If you're basing your buying habits solely on Paypal, that's your choice.
I was one of those folks who got their account locked up for months over a $15 dispute. Customers would pay into my account, Paypal would accept the money in my name, notify the cusotmers I had received their funds, and then keep the money. The buyer who initiated the dispute was kicked off eBay for shill bidding and other offenses. Paypal ignored their own posted terms when they grabbed my funds. All they cared about was covering their own butts for $15. It was because of thousands of complaints from users like me that Paypal lost their Better Business Seal of Approval. And only then did Paypal begin to address these issues.
Again and again, Paypal has lied to its users. One lie on top of another. They provide a rep on AuctionWatch full-time just to hush user complaints. Amazingly, grievances aired in this forum are handled immediately; otherwise, expect to have your emails ignored for weeks.
After I closed my account, I reopened a new account to clean out the last few straggler payments. I recall I got a nasty email which said, "we will take whatever steps necessary to recover the money." Three minutes later, I got an email saying someone had paid me with a fraudulent credit card. (I received a total of five payments to that account.) It doesn't take a genius to figure out that Paypal simply invented a fraudulent payment as an excuse to restrict my funds. How many thousands of users did they do that too?
If that's the kind of company you want to deal with, and expose your customers to, then do it. I may have lost a few sales because of Paypal. But I also sleep better at night not worrying about Paypal reaching into my bank account. (No, they'd never make an unauthorized withdrawl, but a "reversal" is something else, isn't it?) Paypal has made it clear I can reinstate my account if I will pay them $15. They can kiss my hiney.
posted on July 15, 2001 11:29:21 PM
[quote]
If you still feel that you need to accept Credit Cards .. call your bank and set up a
sm business merchant account...and take those cards over the phone...
[/quote]
AND
Pay those HIGH bank fees and DON'T get interest on your account and DON'T get money back each time you use your debit card..
But to each his own - I love when people quit PayPal = more customers for me. There are many, many buyers out there who will NOT bid unless you use PayPal.
Since currently 81% of my buyers pay via PayPal - I would be foolish to cancel them. Business would definitely be lost to competitors who use them.
posted on July 15, 2001 11:32:36 PM
"I read about paypal sending lowlife emails to users about ebay adding billpoint logos or something like that. Maybe another member can share the whole story. eBay should ban them from their site, and I think if paypal keeps crossing the line they will."
Reality is EBAY added Billpoint logo's without our permission.
If you are on the PayPal program where you get interest and money back when your debit card is used you can only advertise PayPal. so NO PayPal did nothing wrong. They HELPED us by letting us know they would extend the deadline to get your auctions straightened out since ebay took it upon themselves to add BILLPOINT logo's.
But I am sure somehow you will work it into big, bad PayPal when Billpoint is at fault in this example you used.
posted on July 16, 2001 03:28:58 AMSince currently 81% of my buyers pay via PayPal - I would be foolish to cancel them. Business would definitely be lost to competitors who use them.
That's funny.
In reality what you would most likely find is that the majority of your PayPal users would simply write a check.
I watch my competitors auctions closely, and those that offer PayPal/Billpoint/Merchant Accounts, seldom get the bids that I do, and I don't accept CC payments except via BidPay.
PayPal sure has some of you brainwashed.
Speaking as a buyer, I couldn't give a rat's azz what form of payment a seller accepts, my ONLY concern is that the item is exactly as described, and that it arrives in same condition. With the amount of online fraud these days, my guess is most buyers feel the same as I do.
There's a gold power seller on eBay that moves 25-40 K worth of antiques & collectibles every month on eBay, and he has NEVER accepted CC payments.
How many of you pro PayPalers can say that?
That's what I thought ...............
I doubt I'll ever reach the gold PS mark, but I am a power seller, and I have never accepted PayPal, and I dropped Billpoint several months back.
posted on July 16, 2001 05:16:18 AM
Congrats on dumping Paypal.... I got rid of them as well and switched to C2it, I have
not noticed a change in the percentage of my items selling and I doubt that I will.
if you think people will stop buying because you don't except paypal you are
WRONG.>>
I think you are correct. I dumbed paypal myself quite a while ago. I use Paydirect instead which is free and I am now thinking of adding c2it since the buyers pay the fees and not the sellers. After all why should I pay more then I have to.
There are people that will only bid if one accepts paypal. They don't however effect the sales rate because there are so many other bidders. For the one who won't bid because I don't take paypal or pay all their fees. There is another one waiting to bid just as much.
I give good customer service. I have good stuff. I pack well. My TOS are clear my e-mails are clear and professional etc. . . I run my auctions like a business because that is what it is. That is what keeps sales up. Not paypal. Accepting credit cards keeps sales up but one doesn't need paypal to do that not with all the other services out there.
posted on July 16, 2001 06:06:27 AM
I stopped listing PayPal and I can't say one way or another if it has made any difference sale wise. I got only one query if I accept PayPal--the rest seem to prefer BillPoint or conventionally mailed payments.
posted on July 16, 2001 07:50:54 AM
Several weeks ago I changed my auction descriptions from "buyer may pay with check, money order, Billpoint or paypal" to "buyer may pay with check, money order or Billpoint". My end of auction notices still mention the paypal option because I have been to lazy to change the template. I also continue to offer billpoint's instant payment.
In the past several weeks I have seen the number of billpoint payments increase significantly...with many using the instant pay. The ratio of billpoint/paypal has turned upside down...where before it seemed that there was one billpoint payment for every three paypal, it is now one paypal to every three billpoint.
My conclusion? We are a society that loves the convenience of "credit". Sales increase when the seller offers some form of credit card payment...not as dramitically as occurs in a B&M store because, as one poster stated, the ebay buyer has a form of "credit" when he doesn't have to hand the cash over immediately like he does in a B&M establishment.
It doesn't matter to the vast majority of buyers whether the seller accepts paypal, billpoint or other forms of credit card acceptance...what matters is that there is the ability to pay with credit cards. Those who refuse to bid on an auction that doesn't accept paypal are probably equally balanced by those who refuse to bid on an auction that DOES accept paypal...and both groups are such a tiny minority that the sellers can safely ignore those buyer's choices and still have a thriving, profitable business.
Most buyers don't give a dang which credit card service the seller uses, just as long as they can use thier credit cards. And most buyers are perfectly willing to send a check or money order instead of using their credit card if the item is something they want. The vast majority of buyers don't even take into consideration what form of payment is offered when they decide to bid on an item...they are only concerned with wanting the item and how much they will bid on it.
Don't believe me? Just do a search of AW and see how many times a poster has complained that the buyer DID NOT read the TOS before they bid!
posted on July 17, 2001 12:27:30 AM
I LOVE Paypal!!! I get a lot of Buy It Nows and they pay with paypal or Billpoint and the deal is done and paid in minutes and it goes out the door the same day... No need to keep track of tardy buyers...
As a buyer, I LOVE Paypal!!! I get free M.O. at my bank but that's a 10-30 minute wait! Bummer... Also, I use the debit card and get 1.5% CASH BACK!!!
Unfortunately I can't seem to spend it as fast as it comes in! Oh well, guess I have to collect that high interest rate paypal pays me...
I have a merchant account but I prefer paypal so that I don't have to input the buyres data and if I need to give a refund on paypal... it's a snap to send him money. Also, we can both confirm that payment was sent/received with paypal. Can't do that with my merchant acct.
posted on July 17, 2001 12:27:54 AM
I LOVE Paypal!!! I get a lot of Buy It Nows and they pay with paypal or Billpoint and the deal is done and paid in minutes and it goes out the door the same day... No need to keep track of tardy buyers...
As a buyer, I LOVE Paypal!!! I get free M.O. at my bank but that's a 10-30 minute wait! Bummer... Also, I use the debit card and get 1.5% CASH BACK!!!
Unfortunately I can't seem to spend it as fast as it comes in! Oh well, guess I have to collect that high interest rate paypal pays me...
I have a merchant account but I prefer paypal so that I don't have to input the buyres data and if I need to give a refund on paypal... it's a snap to send him money. Also, we can both confirm that payment was sent/received with paypal. Can't do that with my merchant acct.
posted on July 17, 2001 12:41:35 AM
I LOVE Paypal!!! I get a lot of Buy It Nows and they pay with paypal or Billpoint and the deal is done and paid in minutes and it goes out the door the same day... No need to keep track of tardy buyers...
As a buyer, I LOVE Paypal!!! I get free M.O. at my bank but that's a 10-30 minute wait! Bummer... Also, I use the debit card and get 1.5% CASH BACK!!!
Unfortunately I can't seem to spend it as fast as it comes in! Oh well, guess I have to collect that high interest rate paypal pays me...
I have a merchant account but I prefer paypal so that I don't have to input the buyres data and if I need to give a refund on paypal... it's a snap to send him money. Also, we can both confirm that payment was sent/received with paypal. Can't do that with my merchant acct.
posted on July 17, 2001 03:15:40 AM
Lets face it, electronic payments are a fad. I've seen it before, remember when the copiers were so popular, now we are seeing carbon paper make a comeback. Digital cameras are getting some attention since they came out, but we know they won't last, we all know that Polaroid will come back on top.
posted on July 17, 2001 03:35:33 AMChum: I appreciated the email from Pay Pal which you called "low life". It explained to me why the Billpoint logo was showing up in my auctions even though I had deselected Billpoint as a payment option in my auction launcher. I accept Billpoint, but I prefer to place the logo in my listings myself.
The truly "low life" action was eBay turning around and automatically inserting their ugly logo at BOTH the top and bottom of my auction listings.
As a seller I'll take your money almost any way you want to give it to me. There are costs and risks, visible and hidden, to every form of payment.
As a buyer, I prefer using Pay Pal or check. The only auctions I skip over are the Money Order only ones, which is the WORST form of payment for the buyer. No real protection and it costs me money.
I am curious as to why this subject generates so much passion. Take Pay Pal or don't take Pay Pal...what's the big deal?
Gerald
"Oh but it's so hard to live by the rules/I never could and still never do."
[ edited by NothingYouNeed on Jul 17, 2001 03:36 AM ]
posted on July 17, 2001 08:37:15 AM
I've been selling on ebay on and off for about 2 years. I've never taken Pay Pal. It has only caused a problem with 1 buyer that didn't pay attention to the TOS or EOA notice that I didn't take it. She sent it that way anyway and I got a notice from pay Pal that I had a payment from someone. I emailed her again that i didn't take payments that way. I have a store and already take CC, so I feel no need to take Pay Pal. I pay enough fees here and there. I have never had a bounced check from a buyer on ebay, but I've had a few in my store from locals that I couldn't collect on! Lots of my ebay customers send postal money orders. I feel that Pay Pal is probably great for a person that does not have a storefront business because everyone loves the convenience of CC.
posted on July 17, 2001 08:52:33 AM
Gosh! I'm surprised at the number of un-civil responses. But let me clarify . . . . I do have a commercial account, to go along with the brick and mortar storefront. It allows me to take Visa and Mastercard at about half of PayPal's rate, plus the advantage of also accepting Amex and Discover. The issue for me is: how much is reasonable for the convenience of PayPal's services? They went over the limit, IMHO. With fees from all quarters being added to previously free services or increased, there is a pretty good nibble being taken out of the revenue stream. A good businessperson will probably want to keep expenses as low as possible, and since there are many, less costly alternatives to PayPal, that would not be difficult to do. It must not be an issue to some because it's kind of invisible - no direct money paid out of hand. Maybe then there would be a larger reaction because folks would realize just how much it's costing them. Oh, and the check thing . . . . We've only had three (count 'em) bad checks in 14 years of business, all made good. Thanks to you all for the lively discussion and special thanks to REWASSAGO for actually 'getting' the humor in the title.
posted on July 17, 2001 09:23:34 AM
Let me tell you about PayPal. Not only am I frustrated with the continued raised rates and fees, but their Seller Protection Policy is flawed. First of all, everyone is on the bandwagon...including AW! Start a service, get you hooked and hike up the price. I'm tired of this Drug dealer tactic! They get you on the comeback.... Enough of my soap box, now for my real message....
Let me say, that the very fair and nominal charges by AW is well worth it, for hosting, listing, post sale, etc. I'm all for value added services.
Secondly, the PayPal seller protection is bogus. I ship ONLY to Verified members with Confirmed shipping address. A buyer paid via PayPal and receieved merchandise from me and was dissatisfied with it. The piece was as stated and as I mentioned in the auctions, please email ANY questions PRIOR to bidding. The buyer disputes the transaction and files a complaint to PayPal. THEY IMMEDIATELY YANKED MONEY FROM MY ACCOUNT!!! Is this legal? Now, not only am I out the merchandise, transaction fees, ebay fees, etc. But he has my item for FREE. I re-read the Seller Protection Policy and felt pretty comfortable that they would reverse the transaction, since I complied with everything. But when I went back to my account I noticed that NOW the buyer has changed the ship to address and is reading UNCONFIRMED address. So, basically I'm SOL.
Beware PayPal users...Seller Protection is a FALSE SENSE OF SECURITY!!!!!
[ edited by beatsarealjob on Jul 17, 2001 09:36 AM ]
[ edited by beatsarealjob on Jul 17, 2001 09:37 AM ]
posted on July 17, 2001 10:12:24 AM
Count me as a buyer who looks for sellers accepting PayPal payments.
The items I buy through eBay are mostly CDs and DVDs... Every now and then a book.
What do these items have in common? There are usually quite a few of the same thing listed at the same time.
Who usually gets my bid? The seller offering the convenience of PayPal.
When given a choice of writing a check, printing an envelope, sticking a stamp on it, dropping it in the mail box, then waiting a week or two for my item to arrive OR paying via PayPal and receiving my item in 3 or 4 days.... Well, it's no contest really.
And, yes, for me as a buyer there's no difference between PayPal and Billpoint. I simply want to use my credit card and receive my item FAST.
posted on July 17, 2001 10:13:04 AM
BEATSAREALJOB: If you accept payments with a regular merchant account, you would still have had that chargeback and be out the fees, etc., while it is being investigated. So that's not a good reason to not take PayPal. I agree, their buyer AND seller protection programs should be tightened up, though.
Second, if the buyer recently changed his address so that the one you sent to is now unconfirmed, PayPal ought to be able to see that it happened. It sounds like the buyer did this deliberately to get out of paying for the item, and I hope PP will reverse the chargeback on that basis. Good luck.
I'm one of the few that wont take paypal...
as we speak I have just wrote my deposit slip from yesterdays eBay take....109 personal checks totaling $1703.00.and $63 in cash. If ebay was to banish paypal today...I think 99% of the bidders would still bid..
