posted on July 21, 2001 06:27:42 PM
The difference between a sniper and a low balling whiner is the sniper knows he has ONE shot at winning, and bids his max.
The low balling whiner bids what he hopes is enough, and prays he doesn't get sniped, because he knows he isn't bidding his max
Who Need's a stink'n Sig. File?
posted on July 21, 2001 06:32:09 PM
I have to agree with kiawok. The seller got 25 cents more than if you had bid on it. Looks like it's pretty good for the seller.
I use an auction management software package that automatically places bids for me at the time they close. I'd say that's great for the seller. If the item was not convenient for me sit and wait for, the person would have received less money for the item. The software does all of the waiting for me. I just enter my bid amount and let it do the shopping. Is it my fault that the company making the software sets a default of 15 seconds prior to the end to place a bid? Since I have DSL service and I am always connected, I eliminated the extra time and trimmed that down to 5 seconds.
Perhaps you should begin to understand some of the psychology of bidding and you would do better. I have a particular manner in which I determine how to set my bid amount and I have only ever been beaten on an item on ebay once. That one item went beyond what I felt the item was worth to me. Apparently your bid indicated that the item wasn't worth that extra quarter to you. You have to make that decision and live with it. That's not our fault.
Bidders are very predictable and knowing what and how to bid will allow you to come out ahead. I'm sorry you can't face the fact that being outbid on one manner or another is life.
With that attitude, there will always be someone out there to ruin your day on just about anything. Is it fair that the person in front of you in line took the last National Enquirer before you could get to it? Is it fair that someone in front of you was driving more slowly than you liked and made you sit through a red light?
There is always one more of everything you'll bid on. Unless you're dying for a Honus Wagner baseball card and are upset that the $1,000,000+ bid outbid you by a quarter then you have nothing to gripe about. Just wait until the next one comes along... and it will.
posted on July 21, 2001 06:35:05 PM
The reason the other person won the auction for 25 cents more than you bid is because it was the next bid incremement. This person probably did not bid only 25 cents more that your highest bid.
I have a DSL line and I have gotten bids in within 5 seconds of the close of the auction. Sometimes I wait until the last minute to bid to see who is around and how high the bidding has gotten on an item. Then I decide how much I want whatever it is or not and what I am willing to pay for it.
Bidding on an auction is open until the clocks ticks down to the last second. Some people bid early, and some people bid at the end of the auction. There is nothing unethical about bidding at the very end of an auction.
There are too many actual unethical things that are done by some sellers and buyers on eBay to be concerned about bidding while an auction is open, during the first hour or the last 5 seconds.
Besides bidding at the last minute is one of the few fun things left to do on eBay.
posted on July 21, 2001 06:36:25 PM
As a buyer I am a proud sniper and confirmed user of esnipe. It has never let me down, never not been there for me, and can handle a bid with 2-3 second buffer.
As a seller, I love snipers. I'll take a sniper anyday over a low-baller.
As someone else mentioned, you have no idea how much the sniper actually bid, since it will only show the bid at one increment above the next highest bidder. I LOVE it when a sniper goes up against another sniper or someone with a high proxy bid. More $$$$ for me!
Greedy in Boston...
Gerald
"Oh but it's so hard to live by the rules/I never could and still never do."
posted on July 21, 2001 06:53:29 PMI have a DSL line and I have gotten bids in within 5 seconds of the close of the auction
You don't need a fast connection to snipe, I get 1-3 second snipes in all the time. I recently went to Cable, but I was doing 1 and 2 second snipes on a dialup account. The amount of data you are sending is very small.
Go watch the DNF board on eBay at 22:22 pm edt. if you want to see people hit it on the head.
Who Need's a stink'n Sig. File?
posted on July 21, 2001 06:58:09 PM
It seems like it is unethical only to the sore loser. Bid your max and move on and stop complaining. There is no rule about snipes being unethical.
posted on July 21, 2001 07:29:49 PM
The originator of this topic said: Snipers do not bid, to keep sellers lots low; they wait for days and rush in at the last second to beat out the real bidder(s) by pennies.
I have had my eye on an item all week. This evening it was sitting at $30 with one bid. Two minutes before the auction ended another bidder came in. I came in with 9 seconds to go and the auction ended just under $50. That is more than mere pennies. I was high bidder but there was room for another sniper or two to come in if they had wanted to and the price would have been even higher.
So who is the real bidder? We were all real bidders but there is always only one winner. I am happy it was me.
dacreson, I am not picking on you. I am just trying to show you an example of how the seller comes out with more money because of snipers/late bidders. You will have to decide for yourself whether proxy bidding or sniping is best for you. Good luck for next time.
posted on July 21, 2001 07:44:31 PM
Most bidders fail to ask themselves how much something is really worth to them before they bid. Sniping is never the real issue.
posted on July 21, 2001 08:04:45 PM
LOL! "Thanks to snipers I hold a World Auction Record. They bid $750 instead of $75.00 and too late to retract the bid. The auction was cancelled by mutual consent!"
I had to laugh...the other day (I wasn't sniping, but regular bidding) I accidently put $5000.00 instead of $50.00!! I about had a heart attack when I realized what I had done! Thank God I had enough time to retract (which I HATE to do) and then immediately rebid for the $50.00....I wont get the item, I'm sure, but it is the most I am willing to pay for that certain widget!
posted on July 21, 2001 09:46:19 PM
Sniping is unethical? Not really. Infuriating to a buyer perhaps but not unethical at all.
Its really no different than setting a maximum bid and the service bids for you when your outbid. Sure folks wait to the last second and snipe something or try but inreality all it is is having software bid for you... If that makes people feel empowered to "win" that way like "Super bidder" I'd say they have WAY to much time on their hands and should start doing something exciting like watching the Golf Channel Or perhaps measuring the grass in the backyard every other hour.
Unethical no. Infuriating perhaps.
Unethical I'd say are sellers selling the same products via multiple accounts with quanitities of one per account. ie: they have 50 of this book. They put 1 copy on each account and use 10 different accounts. So your going in competing for bids and lo and behold you could have bid finding one of those other accounts and not had to compete in bidding. Thats an ethics issue. That some seller took you for a ride and then three months later your bidding only to find you bid with the same seller again who's using 8 different accounts, thats questionable.
Signed: WhyNot!
posted on July 21, 2001 11:00:24 PM
This is why I mainly use the BIN. I hate the sniping in both buying and selling. So it drives up the price. 25 cents! I have bid on an auction and I usually bid up to the highest I will go and low and behold someone else outbinds so now I look for a BIN that is within my budget even though it might be higher I bid it and win. I usually have my item before the other auctions close. I sell mainly the BIN for the same reason. It gives the buyer a chance at winning an auction. Yes, money means alot to me but also the bidder that isn't as fortunate to be able to snipe. I guess it is each to his own...
posted on July 21, 2001 11:38:11 PM
I've sold a simple bid reminder utility on eBay since 1998. Responses have ranged from "best program ever" to "you've ruined eBay." Pro or con, fact is sniping is the preferred method of bidding for many users, so deal with it.
I just want to say though to the sellers who love snipe bids, that one of the main advantages to sniping is that it keeps the final value of the item down.
(1) Sniping cuts out all the bidding wars that drive prices up.
(2) Items with fewer bids get fewer looks (the reverse is also true).
(3) Sniping works because newbies don't bid their maximum proxy.
I suppose you can argue that a snipe bid is better than no bid at all, but that's as far as it goes. Sniping drives prices down, not up.
. Internet Pioneers
posted on July 21, 2001 11:53:11 PM
What drives prices down, are cheap skates who don't bid their max, not last second bidders.
(1)Had the early bidder bid their max, and not just what they hoped to get it for, the final price would have been higher.
(2)Bidding wars can take place in the last minute, just as well as during the first 6 days & 23 hours of an auction.
(3)Sniping doesn't always "work", as in "win". What sniping DOES do, is raise the final ending price.
My best "bidding war" took place between 3 bidders during the last 3 minutes of an auction. Price jumped from $1,600 to $2,500 in the final moments of the auction. [reserve of $1,400 met on day 1]
If that's what you consider "keeping the price down", then I'm all for it.
(2) Items with fewer bids get fewer looks (the reverse is also true).
I'm not sure about the rest of the sellers, but for myself the # of looks doesn't amount to spit. I'm not interested in looky-loos, I'm interested in serious bidders.
I also don't believe anyone can prove that such a statement is true. My counter stats do not support your theory.
posted on July 22, 2001 12:25:26 AM
I doubt that the seller I dealt with this evening is crying in his beer because we drove the ending price up by about $20.
Another thrill is teaching someone to snipe. Nothing like sitting back and watching them drive those ending prices way up.
posted on July 22, 2001 01:05:46 AMTo all the sellers who disapprove of the snipping..
.
Here is an option to rip yourself of evil Snippers..
......Watch your auctions...when you get down to
one or two hours left in your auction.....way before the Snippers
come out......End your auction and email your high bidder and tell them
.....THEY WON......No Snippers = No problems..
posted on July 22, 2001 01:21:55 AM
kiawok, you are off the mark. First, let me remind you, I did say that a snipe bid is better than no bid at all. But that is as far as it goes.
Second, a snipe bid is NOT a bid that is placed with three minutes left to go in the auction. A snipe bid is a bid placed so close to the end of the auction that other bidders don't have a chance to respond. AND it is a bid placed by a bidder who knows that he won't have a chance to bid again, so he bids his max. THAT is a snipe bid, my friend.
If we're going to talk about sniping, let's get on the same page. A low-ball bid placed with three minutes left, and then upped again by the bidder, is not a snipe. It is a joke.
Just for the sake of the argument, let's say that there were no such thing as snipe bidding. And let's say that every bid that would have been placed as a snipe bid was placed on day one of the auction.
Welcome to SNIPING 101:
(1) Instead of an auction with zero bids, the auction appears in the listings as active, with several bids. Yes, that does lead to page views and YES IT DOES lead to more bids. Bidders see activity, so they assume the item is (more) valuable, therefore more bids and higher bids, etc. The converse is also true. Items with fewer bids are assumed to be less valuable.
(2) Let's say you decide that such-and-such an item is worth $50, and that is the max you are willing to pay. You place your bid of $50, and immediately are outbid. The minimum is now $51. You've got ALL WEEK to stare at that $1 increment and think about whether that $50 item may actually be worth $52. You've got all week to resent the guy that outbid you, take it personally, and up your previous maximum by $2. Note that is DIFFERENT than the low-ball type of bid others mentioned. Because you honestly think (or thought) the item is worth $50, no more. But in THIS case, you've got all week to think about it. "Hmmm, Bidder X seems to think it's worth more than $50." And yes, that DOES result in higher bids.
Not only does sniping increase a bidder's chance of success, but it also secures the item at the lowest possible price. Remember, newbies don't bid their maximum proxy and THAT is why sniping works.
I suggest you go back & read my last post again, this time perhaps more slowly.
I never said that a bid placed at the three minute mark was a snipe.
Not only does sniping increase a bidder's chance of success, but it also secures the item at the lowest possible price. Remember, newbies don't bid their maximum proxy and THAT is why sniping works.
OK, for THE last time - what makes you think ALL EARLY PROXY bids placed are by "newbies".
Don't you get it?????
I know early proxy bidders that drop a months salary [for me] on 1 item. Now, does the snipe bid placed at the 1 second mark INCREASE the final bid amount, or does it as you say " keeps the final value of the item down"?
That's SNIPING 101
You talk of snipers as thogh they are ONLY bidding against wet behind the ear, don't know their max, don't bid their max, newbies.
The FACT is, that is NOT always the case.
MY auctions pretty much always have early proxy bids placed on them, sometimes in excess of $100, by buyers with 250-500 feedback. Do you think these are clue less newbies?
I've been reading this same crap for 4 years.
And IMHO that's all it is, crap.
Just like RL auctions, bidding wars can take place through the entire time that the item is up for auction, or take place in the final seconds just before the hammer falls.
posted on July 22, 2001 06:44:44 AM
[i] Instead of an auction with zero bids, the auction appears in the listings as active, with several bids.Yes, that does lead to page views and YES IT DOES lead to more bids. Bidders see activity, so they assume the item is (more) valuable, therefore more bids and higher bids, etc. The converse is also true.
Items with fewer bids are assumed to be less valuable.[/i]
And yes, I would agree with that statement if you are speaking of only morons, which I do not believe the vast majority of eBay users are.
The number of bids placed on an item only attracts dimwits, looky-loos, price guide seekers, and IMO NOT serious buyers.
Serious buyers couldn't care less how many bids are on an item, and many savvy buyers will not bother going after an item that already has every man & his dog bidding on it. In other words, you may lose some potential bids.
I recently had an item with 223 page views, and it ended with 0 bids. I relsited that item and with only a few hours to go has 5 bids, and 181 page views. Gee, imagine that.
Your theory is also blown out of the water by the now ever popular BIN auction. Do you think those buyers care how many bids are placed, or need high bid numbers to attract them to view the auction? I think not.
I had 2 auctions recently end with BIN. Both started at the $100-$125 range, with BINs in the $150 range. In both cases those auctions stood out on the catregory page like a sore thumb due to the high opening bid amount. In both cases those auctions had very few page views, as they were starting at mugh higher amounts than similar items listed on the same page, and BOTH ended with BIN within the first 24 hours. Gee, imagine that.
posted on July 22, 2001 07:00:33 AM
Wow Kiawok. Posted right to the second! You sure don't need sniping software. Actually, why would anyone purchase sniping software when vrane is available for free?
How I bid depends on the item/category, the value, how much I want it, how often it is available, when it ends. There are likely several etc's.
Sometimes I put in a high early proxy in hopes that it scares bidders off. Sometimes I go to vrane and enter a snipe bid. And when I really want to have fun, I snipe it myself. Two screens and away you go.
posted on July 22, 2001 07:49:35 AM
Okay, sniping CAN (notice the operative word is here "Can" not "Always" bring less money to the seller than certain other scenarios, such as:
Buyers duking it out early in the auction.
Having auto extension of the auction if a bid is placed w/in some period of time toward the end.
RL auctions where they can fight it out until one cries "uncle".
But, people don't always snipe just to save money. I snipe because I collect in an area where there's a small group of people who collect the same thing I do. We are all notorious for watching each other to see where the items are. Bidding early means they get a head up on interesting items.
So I snipe to make sure they don't know what I'm interested in.
I also snipe because I don't have all week to constantly check on a particular auction of interest. I bookmark it, go in about 20 minutes before it closes & see what activity has been going in.
And, yes, in some cases, I do snipe in hopes of paying less than I would had I placed a large proxy bid. As a buyer, why would I want to pay MORE than I have to?
As a seller I would like to get the highest price possible. As a buyer, I'd like to get the lowest price possible. Golly, guess that's basic economics 101.
But unethical? Hardly. Try searching the "buyers guide" on ebay. It's even recognized there as a method of buying.
posted on July 22, 2001 07:50:46 AMdacreson:
" I could buy sniper software but I refuse to because I feel it is unethical. "
I understand why you don't like being beaten by a sniper, but I am at a loss as to why you think it is an issue of ethics. Could you explain how it is unethical to snipe an auction?
You said it all! I also buy and sell in a small collectable area and always snipe so my competition doesn't know what I'm bidding on.
As a seller, a good old fashioned bidding war that starts early and involves new collectors is the only situation which I can honestly say results in me selling an item for more than I would if the auction ended in a snipe.
In the end, more often than not, whether lengthy bidding war or near end of auction snipe competition, the final price arrived at is usually in the same ballpark either way.
posted on July 22, 2001 09:59:57 AMSniping is good!
The arguments against it elude me every time. It does NOT drive bids down. It drives them up.
Simple fact: Whoever bids the most wins whether it is in the first 5 minutes of the auction or the last 5 seconds of the auction. Just like someone said before it is the bidders who don't bid their max who keep a price lower, not the snipers that come along at the end. The prior bid is what determines the end price after the sniper went in and RAISED the price at the end. Price went UP, not DOWN!!!
posted on July 22, 2001 10:16:35 AM
Maybe ebay can have a "sniper block" that some sellers can use on their auctions so it stops all incoming bids in the last minute of the auction.
That way the sellers who think that snipers are keeping the bids down don't have to deal with us unethical ones.
Don't laugh, but I've seen a few sellers who stated that they would end their auctions sometime in the last 5 minutes to prevent low life snipers from performing the dirty deed in the last minute/seconds of the auction.
I also saw one seller who said he would refuse to sell to last minute snipers. He was reported to Safe Harbor & eBay made him remove the wording in his TOS, and warned him that he would become NARU if he refused to sell to the high bidder.
bring less money to the seller than certain other scenarios, such as: