posted on August 15, 2001 05:14:40 AM new
Straight from the USPS website section on Tips for Packing:
Cushion package contents with shredded or rolled newspaper, bubble wrap, or Styrofoam peanuts. Plain air-popped popcorn is also good for cushioning; it's inexpensive and environmentally friendly. Pack tightly to avoid shifting.
Stuff glass and fragile hollow items, like vases, with newspaper or packing material to avoid damage due to shock. When mailing framed photographs, take the glass out of the frame and wrap it separately.
Remove batteries from toys. Wrap and place them next to the toys in the mailing box.
While I don't use newspaper due to the added weight and mess, it appears the proper use of it is perfectly acceptable to them. It's how you use it that can make or break a package (pun intended).
Crumpling it up & tossing in a few sheets of comics isn't going to give much protection, especially if the piece is heavy & can crush the paper to one side.
Also noted there but I didn't include all the tips was to use a healthy layer of space between the item and the box to be filled in w/cushioning material.
posted on August 15, 2001 05:36:25 AM new
FWIW, all my auctions require that the buyer pays for insurance ~ no options. I've never had a single customer complain about it. Only one item has been broken and the USPS promptly paid.
posted on August 15, 2001 05:52:37 AM new
Insurance was rejected...no refund. I think it sets a lousy precedent for sellers to refund when the buyer has refused to pay for insurance. That doesn't leave much of a rationale for buyers ever paying for insurance.
FWIW, I require insurance on everything and it's right in my TOS so the bidders are aware of that...before bidding.
posted on August 15, 2001 06:40:53 AM new
I'm one who makes insurance NOT an option on breakables too. And I have no sympathy for buyers who opt out.
However, I believe that the Post Office pays for far too many cases where improper packaging results in the loss. And in most cases, where the entire package is not completely (or nearly) destroyed, breakage only results from improper packing.
Newspaper can work, but as one poster pointed out, it depends on how you use it, and it definitely needs a deft, experienced touch.
AFAIC, the fact that this item was so carefully packed (according to the seller) and STILL broke is pretty solid indication that it wasn't properly packed at all. That's the whole point: proper packing = no breakage UNLESS the package itself gets destroyed. If you're not packing for about the worst handling USPS can give it, you're not packing well enough.
posted on August 15, 2001 06:56:11 AM newclevergirl says AFAIC, the fact that this item was so carefully packed (according to the seller) and STILL broke is pretty solid indication that it wasn't properly packed at all.
Well now, Im so glad you have such solid indications of my packing skills. Like I said in my other posts, MY post office looked at it and said they would have paid the insurance IF there was insurance, of which there was not since the buyer refused it. My packing was fine. I packed it well. I dont control the post office mail handlers nor their "mangler" machine, and that box was stamped FRAGILE all over it (I did my best to protect it, even though the buyer obviously wasnt too worried about her breakable that she won...and no, Im not going to spend another 1.10. Thats up to the buyer to pay) and it was STILL crushed.
I have been selling on ebay for 3 years and have over 1700 fb. I think I know how to pack by now.
posted on August 15, 2001 07:21:35 AM new
I never said use just peanuts, I said use bubble wrap & peanuts. Also if you reread my posts you will see that I am stating the standard that the carriers will hold you to. Lessons I have learned over the last 15+ years. NEVER use just Peanuts! Pack your stuff as if you expect it to be mishandled.
posted on August 15, 2001 07:24:56 AM new
I don't understand the dilemma? You only have 2 choices.
1. Send a refund
2. Don't send a refund
Seems obvious which way you're planning on going with this transaction.
IMO newspaper can work just fine as a packing material if used properly. If some PO employee decides to hurl your parcel off a plane ramp to the ashphalt below, chances are that glass item is going to break/crack no matter how well packed it is.
Personally I insure ALL items where possible damage/loss is a concern. I don't even give the buyer the option, it's simply included in the shipping amount posted in my auction.
I think all sellers should stand behind their merchandise & packing/shipping 100%.
posted on August 15, 2001 07:56:00 AM new
hepburn, I use that 'double box stacking' all the time. And they are VERY secure.
One P.O. first refused to insure them, then said, 'ok, but just this one time' HUH? And another, complimented me, on the clever way to make a larger box, so go figure. I do not think that 'stacking' the box to make it larger is illegal according to the P.O. regulations.
I don't know, if what I am reading is correct, the buyer, could have at the least opened it up to see if there was any damage.
If its all sales final, and she refused insurance..... I wouldn't refund.....
posted on August 15, 2001 08:13:13 AM new
In response to the earlier comment stating if insurance was purchased but the item was not properly packed that the USPS would not pay ... This is NOT correct! If insurance is purchased and the clerk accepts the package and insures it, a claim WILL BE PAID regardless of how well it was packed. This is a fact.
posted on August 15, 2001 09:29:45 AM new
I did not say money makes a professional job. I simply said what the carriers would say. Newspaper is not enough. I have spent 15 years dealing with claims departments. I also did not sy use just peanuts. Peanuts should only be used to support bubble wrap. Yes you can use a lesser standard & get away with it most of the time, but when you have damage you have to live by the carriers standards.
posted on August 15, 2001 10:00:54 AM new
I agree with kiawok, just automatically include the insurance.
Especially on stuff that is packed with newspaper.
I don't think newspaper is worth anything for packing, especially glass.
I have gotten newspaper packed packages that have shifted, compressed and even stuck to an item. One package had the imprint of the lens on the outside of the box - the newspaper was safely on the side of the package! Great if I was buying newspaper!!!!
The lens is okay, but that's because it's a beater that I bought for $10. I let the seller know and left a neutral. What if I was buying something fancy? I would be the bidder from hell - double box it, insure it, foam wrap it, add silica gel to keep it dry, insure it, signature receipt it, etc. There are some good deals for folks like me and nothing is worse than a pile of landfill because a seller thinks newspaper is good enough. It's okay for some items, but bubble wrap, the big fat bubbles, and popcorn and double boxing is the safest way.
Besides, if it's a cheap item, why not just do the refund and let go of the rightousness.
Nothing you can do about it, really. The customer expected a glass item to be packed in a way that would ensure non-breakage.
Now I know the package is smooshed, but it wasn't insured so the P.O. could give a D.A.M.N.
I have seen my packages get treated like garbage at a dumpster, so I double box like crazy. It's the only way to send breakables.
I know you can get by, but I have sent some cameras back to sellers because they didn't double box and the brains are toast, the shutter curtain is ruined, or the camera doesn't "see" the way it should. (Of course that could have been the "omission" of the seller prior to sale, but sometimes they get jarred badly.)Waste of time and loss of money. I suggest that you build double boxing or insurance into your costs, prices and sell the heck out of the concept.
But aside from the feed back, why not just rise above and do the right thing. Put yourself in the shoes of the bidder.
Best of luck
I know that a lot of bidders do come to ebay with lowgrade fear that they will get ripped off. Maybe I would split the loss, tell her she should have gotten insurance. BUT wasn't there a post here a few months (weeks) ago that said whether a seller insures or not they are still responsible?
It sucks, I know!
posted on August 15, 2001 10:16:29 AM newPut yourself in the shoes of the bidder.
You mean the person who, when advised that insurance was recommended, refused to pay for it? And then wanted the benefit of that insurance at a later date?
I tried to put myself in the shoes of such an irresponsible person, but I just couldn't do it.
posted on August 15, 2001 10:21:27 AM new
I think I would just give this woman a complete refund--including shipping and call it a day! True--she didn't pay for insurance--but even if the package was "smooshed" one would not expect to hear the glass if all that newspaper was "smooshed" around it too. I've had packages arrive nearly demolished by the P.O. and yet the contents were perfectly secure thanks to great packaging. She never even took possession--so you can bet she didn't tamper with it. If it was lost by the P.O. that would be a different story.
posted on August 15, 2001 10:27:58 AM new
This is why you don't send anything remotely breakable uninsured. Doesn't matter what the customer wants when it comes to this - uninsured is no more an option of their choice than "for free" would be.
posted on August 15, 2001 10:38:18 AM new
MrP
I feel your pain, and hepburn's but sometimes you have to let the $10 go.
I worry if someone is going to rip me for a $300 camera, or a $650 sweety that I have just put a tasty roll of film through and know it's a nicey.
I didn't say it had to be a hugfest.
But what's the point of agonizing over some strangers lack of integrity?
Insist on insurance or pack bombproof.
But you don't know that they are a complete liar do you? Maybe they have purchased these kinds of items before w/o problems.
Whatever the yarn, I think the overarching concept here is that they are disappointed with the item because it was busted for inadequate packaging.
I don't like customers with a bad taste in their mouth, the paranoia and anger from previous transactions drips into correspondence ("make sure you..." "Don't forget to..." "I will make sure you...".
posted on August 15, 2001 10:46:10 AM new
Yikes...taking a break from mowing pasture and thought I'd best give the url for where I found the packing tips from USPS.
posted on August 15, 2001 10:47:30 AM newI think the overarching concept here is that they are disappointed with the item because it was busted for inadequate packaging.
I don't think we know that the packaging was inadequate. The buyer said that their PO said "Yes", the seller said that their PO said "No".
So where does that leave one? A choice of believeing either an experienced seller, or a buyer who declines insurance, yet expects their item to be insured.
posted on August 15, 2001 10:52:16 AM newWhatever the yarn, I think the overarching concept here is that they are disappointed with the item because it was busted for inadequate packaging
I understand that, I really do. BUT (you knew that was coming, right?), they couldnt have been disappointed in the packing because they never OPENED it. The POST OFFICE told them "it sounds busted. Refuse it and get your money back". She did refuse it and sent it back. I opened it myself, at MY post office, in front of the clerks there as well as in front of the manager. They all agreed it was packed WELL. Yes, it was smooshed. No, it was not insured. Yes, I told her to insure it, or rahter, recommended it "as I am not responsible for lost, stolen or damaged items once I ship" which is what I say in ALL my emails after the sale is over. No, she didnt want insurance. Now, shes complaining that it "sounded" broken (and it was) and wanted a full refund. I asked for advice and I got it from many here. I thought about it.
Nope, not gonna do it. I think I will stay righteous and stick to my guns.
posted on August 15, 2001 10:53:49 AM new
I recommend that Sellers of breakable items consider signing up with U-PIC.com for insurance. The rates are very reasonable (example: 40 cents for a package worth under $100, if sent with Delivery Confirmation. If no DC, then it is 60 cents.) These amounts can be added to your shipping costs. I haven't ever filed a claim, but I've heard it is hassle-free. And, you can insure the total paid by the buyer, including shipping costs.
THEN, use it as a selling point. Brag about your delivery guarantee. I just purchased a breakable item in the $40-$45 price range. I had a choice of two sellers. One had shipping of $4.50 and offered insurance as an option for $1.10 and gave the usual "I am not responsible..." line if insurance was declined. The other stated the shipping price as "$5.00 INSURED - Guaranteed Delivery or you receive a full refund." I chose the second seller.
posted on August 15, 2001 10:58:25 AM new
I guess I will throw my 2 cents in.
As a seller I ABSOLUTELY would not refund 1 red cent, as a matter of fact I would consider the matter closed-block her from my auctions and delete any further e-mail from her.
As a buyer, Yes I would be disappointed it broke and kick myself in the a** for not getting insurance, then I would chalk it up as the lesson learned for the day.
The problem with people today is they can not take responsibility for their own mistakes!! the post office did not handle the package properly so they passed responsibility, and she did not get insurance so she passed it on.
By refunding her she will just do this to someone else, if she does not get refunded well maybe-- just maybe she will learn a lesson for next time.
posted on August 15, 2001 12:10:43 PM new
Just a side note to Capriole.......
I've used newspaper to pack several hundred fragile items, but I always use plenty of LARGE bubblewrap as well. I would also never ship something such as a camera in a newspaper packed box. I'm not even sure I would want to ship a camera?
posted on August 15, 2001 01:12:17 PM new
Toke...Im just stubborn when I think Im right, and in this instance (as in all instances), Im right (Im never wrong wrong wrong). So is most of the people in here who gave advice that tickled my ear.
When I went to the PO today, they asked what I was going to do. I told them I am going to do nothing, no refund. They said "good. She should have bought insurance".
posted on August 15, 2001 01:23:09 PM new
It's just unfortunate that more sellers don't take that approach. I'm all for customer service, but there is a difference between bending over backwards to help out and laying down and being a floormat.
posted on August 15, 2001 02:54:42 PM new
I have to agree with MR.P
I've only once refused a return, and only because the buyer was attempting to play me for the fool. I called him on it, laid down the law, and told him he was SOL on a return.
He must have felt a bit guilty as he left me pos feedback the next day & I never heard from him again.
.
