posted on August 19, 2001 11:38:05 AM new
All right, I realize that eBay is not as it was the the "good ole' days", but I for one am getting pretty damn tired of the new practices of "some" sellers. Don't wanna listen to my rant, well that's ok, but just know that I am a compulsive shopper and I am NOT alone! There are a bunch of little things that are aggravating, but tolerable (no shipping charges, no responses to emails, no notifications of payment recieved, etc.) BUT what is quickly becoming a show stopper for me are these damn automated EOA emails. Over the past 4 days, I was bid/won/bin'd several items. Billpoint was offered as a payment option & I paid within hours of the auctions end, including with each payment, a note to the seller (eg. Hi, here's you payment notification, pls email when you recieve it, blah, blah, blah). I receive my email notification from Billpoint. Then I sit and wait to hear from the seller. In EACH and EVERY case, instead of a confirmation of payment, I have received an automated response (a PAYPAL AD) requested my payment thru their "preferred payment method" (Paypal, of course). AAAAGGGGGGHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!....I then have to email the seller directly, including a copy of the Billpoint notification, and then of course, sit & wait AGAIN for the seller to find time in his/her busy schedule to deal with my (the lowly little buyer)....WAKE UP PEOPLE!....Stop bitching about the lack of buyers and start treating us like we matter.....uh, in case you don't understand the concept, without us folkd you folks are OUTTA BUSINESS!!!!
posted on August 19, 2001 12:48:05 PM new
I would venture to say you are the exception to the rule...In my case, most winning bidders(probably 90-95%) never make a payment or respond until the I(seller) sends the confirmation first. Don't get me wrong, sellers love people like you, but in reality, people like you are few and in between. Keep in mind also(this is just my personal view)...EOA notices and the whole automation process allows me to turn my inventory over 2-3 times faster(sold and shipped) than in the old days...therefore I am able to lower my prices and look for my return in volume rather than worrying about the price on a single item...I also look at the opposite of your argument...I rarely have anyone complain about EOA's, as a matter of fact, I have been complemented several times over about how smooth and fast the process was...you wouldn't be the type to complement since you are already ahead of the game, sellers should be thanking you instead. You are very right, "about treating buyers like they matter"...I think your post points to a bigger picture, perhaps being treated well throughout the entire transaction, from start to end. Personally, I do use EOA's, but I am also committed to "Serving the Customer with a Passion". I tell them this in my auction description, and live up to it, just as my feedback reflects.
Billy Johnson - ilist4u
www.ilist4u.com
[ edited by ilist4u on Aug 19, 2001 12:55 PM ]
posted on August 19, 2001 02:38:09 PM new
Billy, it's nice to meet a seller with a passion for serving the customer. Your comment "...I think your post points to a bigger picture, perhaps being treated well throughout the entire transaction, from start to end hits the ole' nail on the head. I believe in treating the customer right from start to finish with honest descriptions, good/clear communications, careful packing, quick shipping and follow up to insure satisfaction. If that's old fashioned, well then, so be it. I have been on a seller's break, but upon my return I will make sure that my potential customers are aware of the service that they can expect when buying from my auctions. As I witness the degradation of sellers, am sure their are plenty of customers out there who will recognize and appreciate the difference. I may never become a power seller, but that was never one of my goals. The beauty of eBay (for me) is that I run my own ship, and my goals are to offer good merchandize at good prices with excellent service.
In the meantime, I believe I will lay off buyin' and lower my blood pressure at the same time!
posted on August 19, 2001 03:03:31 PM new
rancher,
I don't know if I sell what you buy, but you're always welcome to shop my auctions.
I haven't automated my emails, and I actually check my email before sending them out so that if I have the person's name and/or payment, I can acknowledge that in the eoa. About 20% of my buyers pay by paypal before I even send out my eoa's.
I send thank-you's for payment received. In that email I tell you when your item will ship. In the last 6 months, I've had to ship 2 items a day later than I promised. I emailed them also to tell them. Another I totally spaced UPS Ground and paid for Priority so they'd get it about the same time.
I love service also, and the shops, stores, and ebusinesses that have good service get me back over and over. I like your idea of marketing it as part of the auction ad.
posted on August 20, 2001 01:13:42 PM new
I use automation to send EOA emails to all winners. I mention in the email that if you have paid by BillPoint, it will be noted. However, I'm not going to sort through all of the emails sent to me and not send the EOA to the poeple who have already paid.
posted on August 20, 2001 01:53:07 PM new
I would like to respond to this post but am too busy. Please send me a form with the subject of this thread, the URL and a box where I can fill in my comment and I will be glad to reply.
I think there are at least two classes of seller. There are those who want to push a lot of volume and the buyer is just another transaction number. They have many auctions going on and are happy to pay ebay fees and paypal fees on every single item they sell. When ebay goes down or a competitor comes along and undercuts them, their income will go from whatever to zero.
Then there are sellers who want to build up a clientelle. They have a following because they respond to emails, answer questions and provide value. They use ebay to acquire new customers but still get many repeat orders and referrals from existing customers. For every auction they close on ebay, they make many more sales off of ebay and because customers trust them, many are happy to pay with methods that are free to use and accept. The end result: more sales, less commissions and a business that can go up even when ebay is down and even in the face of competition.
I respond to every email. I take the time to ask a customer if he is sure the 128 mb smartmedia card will fit his camera because many cameras can't handle it. I have saved customers from making mistakes and I have corrected their mistakes by trading what they got for what they needed. In return, my customers sent me more customers. Was it Abe Lincoln who said that a good trade is one in which both parties feel they got the better deal?
posted on August 20, 2001 01:58:56 PM new
Unfortunately, lots of sellers don't even know that Pay Pal is sending out those EOA's on their "behalf". When Pay Pal developed that option they just turned it on for all their selling members, forcing users to go in and uncheck the option in their preferences. Most people don't routinely look at their Pay Pal preferences so unless a buyer points it out to them or responds to the seller through the email, these sellers remain unaware that these emails are being sent in their name.
Occasionally, Pay Pal even resets the preferences (and calls it a bug or glitch)and starts sending emails even from a seller who thinks he has turned them off. This has happened to me.
Gerald
"Oh but it's so hard to live by the rules/I never could and still never do."
posted on August 20, 2001 02:16:36 PM new
I would have to disagree about some of the automated emails. I use auctiontrakker, and after my auctions ended, I send out my EOA emails through AT with all information the bidder needs to make payment. Since many of my customers pay immediately, even before receiving my EOA email, I do state in my emails something like ~ "thank you if you have already sent us your mailing info or already made payment". Regardless if they have made payment or emailed me already, it's important to me that they receive this email with any information they could possibly need.
This is just a suggestion, but if you are getting this upset about receiving automated emails after you've already sent payment, etc, then perhaps you should wait until you hear from the buyer before you make the payment?
Good luck ~
PS - are you only referring to Paypal's automated emails or all in general?
[ edited by ExecutiveGirl on Aug 20, 2001 02:17 PM ]
posted on August 20, 2001 02:46:49 PM new
sadie999....I collect cottages & cowboys, houses & horses, amber glass (my new kick), & have 3 kids who KNOW the first place mom is gonna look for something they want is on eBay!...Now, if I only knew your eBay personna, I'd be happy to shop your auctions.....
genxmike, I mention in the email that if you have paid by BillPoint, it will be noted.
And how am I to be sure that you received MY payment?...Trust the billpoint notification system & email?..
However, I'm not going to sort through all of the emails sent to me and not send the EOA to the poeple who have already paid. Why?, is your time more valuable than mine?
Yisgood...I would like to respond to this post but am too busy. Please send me a form with the subject of this thread, the URL and a box where I can fill in my comment and I will be glad to reply ROFLMAO! Your seller theories make sense to me...&...I'd like to count myself as one of the latter....
NothingYouNeed...I can understand that problem, but in this case the sellers most probably know, because they are not sending any other EOA emails. Oh, and the Paypal auto emails are quite delayed.
ExecGirl....My problem with the automated emails is I have no way of actually knowing whether or not you did in fact receive my payment. I realize that as a seller you are most probably selling more than one item, but that is not my business. I care about the transaction that we are involved in. When I pay, I want to be assured that you received my payment and will ship my item. I don't want to sit in a position of uncertainty and wait for a NPB alert to hit my mailbox because there is a commuication problem. The auto-emails that begin "Dear Valued Customer" really tick me off. If I was such a valued customer, then how's about takin' a moment to actually address ME. (that comment is not directed at you, for I do not know how you address your emails, just a general observation)
I suppose I could wait for the seller to contact me, but when I want to buy something, I want to buy it. No games, no waiting, no excuses, I just pay & then (hopefully) get my stuff. In addition, I am at my computer when I buy the item, but don't particularly want to have to keep checking my in box (sometimes for days) waiting for a seller to get around to notifying me. So many sellers today are stipulating a 10 day period in which payment must be received, which is fine with me, but I would like to know when the clock starts ticking!....(again these comments are not directed at you / your selling practices, just my general feelings on the subject matter)
posted on August 20, 2001 02:50:10 PM new
I'm sick of the automated EOA's too. Got several in the last few weeks.
Hate the way they make you feel like a second class citizen if you don't pay by Paypal or some other online service. It conveys an attitude like "Well, I really don't want to take your check or money order but if you're gonna force me too I guess I have no choice but to have you send it to me at the address below."
Then you have to waste more time looking for the address among all the sales hype.
Part of what makes eBay work, IMHO, is the personal touch. These people are screwing that up. They're probably the same folks who think jazzy auction templates are a good thing when in fact all they really do is clutter the page and slow things down.
posted on August 20, 2001 03:39:00 PM new
As a seller, I certainly sell more than one item at a time. Usually several hundreds of different items, through several different ID's for the different types of items that I sell.
It's very important to me that my buyers all recieve the same information about our transaction. Regardless of whether or not they have already paid or already sent me their mailing address. There is information in my EOA email that I need all bidders to know.
In defense to my automated emails, at the end of every day I go through all the payments I've received and email all of my customers to let them know that their payment has been receieved, and I also tell them I'll email them again when I ship.
Then when I ship (usually the very next day), I email them again to let them know that I have shipped so they can be on the lookout for their package.
And all of those emails are automated too, but my customers absolutely love being updated on every step of the transaction. To be honest, I don't even think the customers realize they are automated.
posted on August 20, 2001 03:48:11 PM new
I use the AW system. They get a WBN at the EOA. As soon as I get any money I just go down the checklist. It sends them an email with the tracking number and tells them it is on the way. I don't see why I would need to send a personal email unless they ask me a direct question. As far as Pay Pal is concerened I hope they are not sending my bidders anything. My AW WBN gives them the choices they need. They don't have to fill that thing out. If you get a WBN after you already payed you should know that is going to happen. I can't stop those things. Why is that upsetting. If you want an auction to be personal just send a normal email or call.
posted on August 20, 2001 04:38:37 PM new
> I don't even think the customers
> realize they are automated.
Isn't AuctionTrakker great? I use it too, and all my buyers rave about "great communication" in their feedback. I've come to expect "high touch communication" from many sellers, but few seem to take the time.
I use BuyItNow in all my auctions and over 50% of my buyers send payment before I can send an EOA notice. I always check for payment from buyers now due to rancher24 type replies. Why bother with this extra exchange when you could send a "Payment Received" notice instead? If you set up your e-mail client to move Paypal and BillPoint payment to a different folder, the chore becomes easily manageable.
* ~ * ~ * ~ * http://techgems.net
posted on August 20, 2001 05:09:29 PM new
Spaz...Part of what makes eBay work, IMHO, is the personal touch I agree, however, I can understand with the drop in sales, volume must be increased, and therefore SOME automation becomes necessary. It's the total automation, without human intervention that is drivin' my wallet deeper & deeper into my pocket, that's buggin' me!
ExecGirl....You are sending out emails notifiying customers that their payment has been received & item will be shipped...that's one to one communication (or at least good automation that appears that way to the customer)....That's not my problem.
ecomputeremporium...If you get a WBN after you already payed you should know that is going to happen.HOW am I supposed to know that? How am I supposed to know that for some strange cyber-reason my payment notification has not reached you and you believe that I have NOT made a payment?....I do not know, so I have to follow up with a direct email to you, including all evidence that I did make the payment & then wait for a response from you to confirm. WHY should I have to do that? (as I said in an earlier post, these comments are directed at the practice, NOT the sellers responding here) I AM THE CUSTOMER!...I BID, I WON, I PAID...I shouldn't have to chase a seller.
Sun818....Why bother with this extra exchange when you could send a "Payment Received" notice instead? ON THE NOSEY!....
posted on August 20, 2001 07:51:32 PM newI don't see why I would need to send a personal email unless they ask me a direct question.
This is my approach and it seems to be working well. There are a lot of "pro" buyers out there who do not want nor need 5 different status messages. And certainly, there are few "pro" sellers out there willing to take the time to personalize 5 separate messages to 100's of people a week.
rancher24 could you please tell me an example message you would like to see from a seller regarding your billpoint payment?
The problem is, since I don't know the person on the other end, I would have a hard time coming up with something unique to say to "personalize" this item and all my emails would read like :
Dear X, I have received your Billpoint payment for the Widget, and I am mailing it on Wednesday. I hope you enjoy it!
That doesn't strike me as very personal but perhaps you may disagree and find this exactly what is wanted!
posted on August 20, 2001 08:31:52 PM new
This may sound silly but I to send automated e-mails. I send one notifying you about the auction even if you have paid. This may give me away but here is how my first few lines read.
This is your official auction notification. If you have already sent payment thank you and you do not need to reply.
Congratulations, you won the following item(s) for only $.30.
Like EG I send out automated e-mails also when payment is received and when the item(s) is/are shipped. Actually after I receive their payment my automation starts calling them by name.
Dear Michael Xxxxxx,
Your payment of $7.50 by Billpoint has been received. Your order has been processed, packaged and shipped by Priority Tracked 00000000000000000000 on Saturday, August 18, 2001
Here is the where and what was shipped.
Now anybody that has dealt with me will know me.
People do like to think they are being treated personally and I do when I can but for routine e-mails like this you need a good software. I use AT also but not the same one as EG.
If anyone wants the name feel free to e-mail me and I will personally respond, no automation, to each e-mail
posted on August 20, 2001 08:51:49 PM new
I think (hope??) I'm somewhere inbetween. I have automated EOAs (but only ONE) and try to catch if anyone has already paid before I send them out. Even that sometimes doesn't work if our emails are crossing in cyberspace.
But, my EOA, though automated, tries to include a bit of humor and info the customer may need plus give them the feel that if there are any problems, their concerns will be acted upon quickly.
I don't send a "I received your payment" because generally I ship no later than 48 hours whenever possible. I'd say the bulk of my shipments go out between 12-24 hours.
I DO send a "I received your payment and shipped your item today" email the day the item is shipped. Since I used SAB, it's all w/the touch of a button.
Yep, I'm automated but I do try to include a bit of humor and make the customer feel their business is important.
If a customer writes something personal, I respond directly. So far, I've gotten pretty high remarks from my customers at my good communication and customer service.
I think, with a touch here and there, you can be automated and not make the customer feel like he's talking to a wall. Atleast, I HOPE my customers feel comfortable. 25% of them are repeats so I'm either achieving that or selling too damn cheaply.
posted on August 21, 2001 05:48:27 AM new
Some automated EOAs are okay. When I was selling, I used the EOAs in AuctionTamer, but they were all personalized and I reviewed each one before they went out in case something needed to be added or changed.
But PLEASE, I'm begging sellers, DO NOT USE the ugly PayPal SPAM EOAs. They are SO insulting! I personally closed my PayPal account just about a year ago now for 2 reasons: (1) for self-protectiong, after all the horror stories of frozen accounts of perfectly innocent sellers and (2) outrage and protest over their sleazy business practices. So sending a PayPal EOA to me is an INSULT, quite aside from the SPAM-flavor which is enough of an insult, and I'm not alone in how I feel.
I'm either going to stop bidding on auctions where the individual even takes PayPal, or start neg'ing (okay, maybe neutral-ing) sellers for their SPAM PayPal EOAs. And I'm deadly serious.
posted on August 21, 2001 09:04:47 AM new
wbbell..Although emails along the route (paid, shipped, thanx) would be nice, I'll admit they are not necessary. All I am looking for is confirmation from the seller that my payment has been received. You example is just fine. I don't want touchy feely, all I want is to KNOW that you have successfully received my payment, timed such that I don't receive a Pay Me request AFTER I have already paid.
LaneFamily...if you take the time to check for my payment before you send out the first message, you could save yourself having to send out the next message.
CleverGirl But PLEASE, I'm begging sellers, DO NOT USE the ugly PayPal SPAM EOAs. They are SO insulting! YES! YES! YES!!!!.....
The bottom line to all of this is simply: Do not let the automation cause miscommunication between the seller & the buyer. A simple check before the EOA goes out will save us all alot of time & energy.(Yes, Eventer, there will still be occasions where timing will cross messages, but those are typically rare)Those using a format, either automated or a cut/paste form, can just edit out the line "If you have paid, disregard this" and replace it with "Your payment has been received, thanks" This removes doubt for the buyer and increases confidence. With all the bad press that online sales receive, using communication to boost confidence of potential buyers is a tool that sellers can utilize to keep the sales going.
I must say that it is refreshing to see a good number of sellers here who are taking the time to listen to a customer!
posted on August 21, 2001 10:11:19 AM new
I hate the automated EOA where you have to click on a link then fill in all the information. When I get one of these I kinda feel like I just went into McDonald's to order a hamburger and they showed me where the grill is!
Could the PayPal EOA's be going out on the auctions that has the logo on? I list paypal but do not add the instant payment button.
posted on August 21, 2001 02:46:43 PM new
I HATE ANY TYPE OF AUTOMATED E-MAILS WHEN WINNING AN ITEM!!! Especially those that contain a link where you are to "fill in" the info.
My opinion: If you're selling so much junk that you can't take the time to send a form e-mail to one person (who did take the time to bid and win your auction), then it's time for another venue for you.
When I've received these auto e-mails, I simply ignore them, write an e-mail to the seller saying I've won their auction and to please let me know total and where to send payment. I have ALWAYS recieved a polite answer.
posted on August 21, 2001 03:01:14 PM newnicepolice - what is the difference between an "automated" email and a "form" email?
Is there a difference between me supplying a template to vrane and having it fill in the blanks, and sending out the emails automatically, vs. me taking the same template and filling in the blanks manually? The end result is the same.
The simple fact of the matter is, you buyers want good, recent, new stuff, and for cheap. The only way that we sellers can offer you good, recent, new stuff for cheap, and remain a viable operation, is to make it up in volume. And to do any kind of volume requires 24 hour a day commitment, or the use of some type of automated system. It's just that simple.
posted on August 21, 2001 04:04:12 PM new
> the use of some type of automated system.
> It's just that simple.
I agree with this. Some type of automated system is definitely required, but one should not have to sacrifice all personalization for this. When companies send out bulk letters, why do you think they utilize mail merge and have the receivee's first name filled in after Dear?
There is no excuse for volume sellers not to invest in software tools or services that are readily available to manage your auction and e-mail tasks. Computers are supposed to make our lives easier remember?
* ~ * ~ * ~ *
http://techgems.net
[ edited by sun818 on Aug 21, 2001 04:07 PM ]
posted on August 21, 2001 07:35:15 PM new
genxmike: I mention in the email that if you have paid by BillPoint, it will be noted.
rancher24: And how am I to be sure that you received MY payment?...Trust the billpoint notification system & email?..
genxmike: Well....yes. In addition, you'll get an automated email from us within 48 hours saying that your item was shipped.
genxmike: However, I'm not going to sort through all of the emails sent to me and not send the EOA to the poeple who have already paid.
rancher24: Why?, is your time more valuable than mine?
genxmike: Probably. Actually, it's a matter of scale. I'm selling 100s of item a week on EBAY. I'm getting 1000s of emails a week. If I had to sort through every email to make sure you had not sent me some kind of notification saying that you had paid, you would likely not get notified in a reasonable amount of time. I'd rather make sure everyone gets the correct info right away and then spend hours reading and answering emails than the other way around.
[ edited by genxmike on Aug 21, 2001 07:36 PM ]
[ edited by genxmike on Aug 21, 2001 07:39 PM ]
posted on August 22, 2001 06:17:26 AM new
genxmike....Well....yes. In addition, you'll get an automated email from us within 48 hours saying that your item was shipped. Is this SOP stated in your description or me page?...If not, how am I supposed to KNOW that you will email me in 48 hours???
Ok, let me ask you a question then, How should I (as the buyer) handle the following situation: I bid/won on an item, using Billpoint "Pay Now" I paid, next morning I wake to find 4 (count 'em 4!) auto EOA emails from the seller. (I won only "1" item) These emails are standard, "here's accepted payment methods, tell us what item you won, & email us your shipping address" ....Am I to assume that in a day or so this seller with find my Billpoint Payment Verification notice & email me?...Or will the seller simply ship my item without any other communication?....Do I sit back & wait til I get a NPB notice or some good ole' negative feedback?......Seriously, I would like to hear your opinion of what I should do in this situation....
posted on August 22, 2001 06:56:25 AM newAm I to assume that in a day or so this seller with find my Billpoint Payment Verification notice & email me?...
It seems to me that you are concerned that BP/PP payments will not go through for some reason and you want a warm fuzzy that your payment was received.
Perhaps I am just too trusting, but Paypal and Billpoint are reasonably mature technologies and they send you an acknowledgement in email. I think it is safe to assume that if BP or PP acknowledged your payment, then the seller did in fact receive it.
We would hope that the seller would send you an email, at least, when the item is shipped. In my opinion that is a sufficient warm fuzzy that the deal is progressing normally.
posted on August 22, 2001 07:05:14 AM new
The last 3 items I purchased, I paid right away with Billpoint. I then emailed the seller an email with my mailing address and let them know I paid via Billpoint.
I never heard back from any of them, but a few days later, all the items showed up on my doorstep.
They may have had kind of poor communication, but hey - they didn't stiff me. They shipped out right away and all the items were just as described. So I left them nothing less than glowing feedback.
My point is this - if you pay online, it's always a good idea to just email the seller and let them know you paid in the email just in CASE they didn't get notification from Billpoint, Paypal, etc.
If you don't hear from them again after their automated EOA, just sit back and relax! Chances are, you'll still receive your item in good shape.
What's the worst thing that can happen? They could be a crook and not ship out your item? Well you paid by CC, so you can do a chargeback and get your money back if you have to.
As far as the "personal touch" - not everyone is a hobby seller and has time to send out personalized emails. Everyone gets the same emails from me - even the ones who are my repeat buyers. Actually, I don't even look at the email addresses at all. If I took the time to write out personalized emails to everyone, I wouldn't have time to list half the items I do now.
As a seller, I try to do everything I can to list a lot, bring great deals to the bidders, and ship quickly. And although I do send out automated emails, my customers are notified every step of the way, and they are thrilled with the communication, even if it is automated.
And another note - when I am a bidder, I would actually prefer an automated email. I don't want to make "friends" out of all my ebay transactions. I just want the item! Once you start getting "friendly" with buyers/sellers you start getting even MORE junk mail, chain letters, forwarded spam, etc. They email you to ask you how the weather is! No thanks. Please just mail me my item and we'll exchange positive feedback!
posted on August 22, 2001 07:09:47 AM new
As far as BP/PP sending out emails notifying a bidder had paid - I would like to say that Billpoint is NOT 100% reliable. I have had a few cases where I never recieved BP's notifications that I was paid. That's why it's important that you at least email the seller and let them know you have paid via BP/PP. So if when going over their records and they don't see a payment from you, but they check their emails and see that you said you paid by BP - they can check their BP log and see if somehow your payment is there.
posted on August 22, 2001 07:10:17 AM new
There are differences in the level of automation, too. With AuctionTamer (and most likely with other programs as well) I can either set the notices up to go out automatically for newly-closed auctions or I can send them out myself one by one. I choose the latter method so that I can go through my emails to check for electronic payments first. Then I type in a brief sentence acknowledging the payment before I send the notice. Then I still send the standard payment notice anyway right after with the exact payment information I've received.
This is relatively easy for me to do and it's the way I prefer to do things. Also, the shipping charge might vary from item to item, and I can make sure I've made the correct adjustments for multiple purchases and so forth before sending out the emails.
But many sellers, most likely those who have hundreds closing at a time, might have their system set up to automatically send out the notices. I don't think they're necessarily trying to ignore the buyer's individual needs.
Have you ever gotten a NPBA or any other emails that might indicate the sellers have ignored your payments and not shipped? If so, I can see why you'd be upset.
posted on August 22, 2001 08:36:52 AM new
I prefer buyers sending a personal e-mail stating they have sent payment. Sometimes their eBay e-mail address is old and can have a second source to use if their eBay address bounces. E-mail bounces more often than I like.
* ~ * ~ * ~ * http://techgems.net
