posted on August 20, 2001 09:23:00 AM new
I've owned this item since 1977 and considering selling it, but I have mixed emotions regarding the moral aspects of doing so.
It is a black leather and silver engraved bracelet that was given to Freddie Prinze Senior by Jack Albertson during their "Chico And The Man" TV series.
I obtained it quite legally as it was discarded and thrown into the trash (as were many other of his items) by Freddie's wife when she cleaned out the hotel room in which he shot himself. At the time, my Father was the general manager of the hotel and I worked there on the front desk.
It's been sitting here in my jewelry box since that time, and now I'm considering selling it on Ebay.
I do however have moral reservations about listing it, as I don't wish to profit on someone elses tragic misfortune. On the other hand there are probably many of his fans who would cherish it and love to own a piece of his legacy.
I want to do what is right morally and ethically. What would you folks do? Opinions please.
posted on August 20, 2001 09:42:42 AM new
It's defintely valuable; deserves a first rate auction. I'd make absolutely certain it got a special listing.
You might consider putting some of the proceeds to a charity. This might help you "turn the tables" on a tragic event. Keep in the mind that the item is valuable because of the intrinsic symbolic value, not because someone made a very bad choice.
posted on August 20, 2001 09:43:29 AM new
It is yours, but how are you going to prove to the high bidder the authenticity of this item? (I got it out of the trash?)
First, Call the family, find out if they would be interested in purchasing it. Sometimes-people in grief do rash stupid things--like throwing out everything without asking the immediate kin first.
If they have no interest--go for it.
But this kind of selling always gives me the willies. Not to offend you, you were the smart one to keep it and other items. None the less, still gives me the willies. Just like all memorabilia of famous people that hit the auction block. Thinking of Jackie Kennedy Onassis and Andy Warhol.
posted on August 20, 2001 09:45:03 AM new
How timely..yesterday's Parade lead article was about Freddie Prinz Jr.
Seems he was told virtually nothing about his father or his suicide until he was 8 and then it was from a schoolmate.
I know this might be quite valuable to sell, but would you think about contacting him and offering it to him? He apparently has very little from his father and this might be something cherished.
posted on August 20, 2001 10:06:14 AM new
The closest person to this guy, his wife, did not want to honor his accomplishments by preserving items that had great memories attached to them. However, there are fans who would want to honor those accomplishments. You would be making a profit on your time and effort of obtaining these items and holding onto them until you find a suitable home. Morally speaking, the profit you make is from your efforts and forethought to preserve a great memory. What is wrong with that?
I would consider it a great achivement to contribute to another's life while I am dead, even if it means making money off my name.
posted on August 20, 2001 10:25:39 AM new
Not a problem selling it at all to me, but I agree with jeanyu, and I'd make an effort to sell it to the family first.
posted on August 20, 2001 10:40:39 AM new
If you have to ask, then don't do it. Look at how glibly other sellers have told you to sell......not making a judgement call here, but it looks like some people wouldn't have thought twice about selling it, in which case the question didn't come up.
I think because it bothered you enough morally to have to ask the question, than I don't think you should sell it without contacting the family first. For your own piece of mind.
posted on August 20, 2001 10:42:12 AM new
Thanks to all of you (very much) for your input.
Here's what I've decided to do... I'll attempt to contact Freddie Prinze Jr. through his agent that I have just now located through the Screen Actors Guild. (The actor's union)
If there is no response within a reasonable time, I'll go ahead and list it and sell it. Perhaps as suggested give a portion to a charity....Probably some fans will cherish the item.
As for proving that it's the real thing, I'll escrow it and have the highest bidder contact the owner of the hotel (the same owner after all these years), a well-respected L.A. real estate mogul, and confirm that we were employed by him at the time and were there within a couple of hours of the time of death and that indeed we did supervise his wife's 'cleaning out' of the room.
posted on August 20, 2001 10:47:08 AM new
This is heavy! I say, ask the bracelet. What does it want? Then how does your stomach feel when you consider the possiblities of trying to contact the family versus selling it. You have to live with yourself, never mind the other people. Sometimes I have done things that were totally off the wall because of my "gut feelings" only to have it turn out very very nice in the end, because I felt like it was the "right" thing to do.
posted on August 20, 2001 11:10:47 AM new
If Freddie Prinz Jr. is interested in getting this item, I'd suggest having a photo of you delivering the item to him made, and get him to sign. It will make a good page in your scrapbook and a nice story to tell the grandkids.
posted on August 20, 2001 11:15:15 AM new
Unfortunately there is no way to prove that this bracelet is genuine. Anyone can fabricate a story such as yours. You would need a notarized letter from Prinze's widow or somebody that could swear to the genuineness of the item. After 24 years that may be tough to do especially if she threw it out. If your tale is true your only shot is to try the family or try to find a guilable buyer that doesn't require proof. Sorry if this sounds stern but there are MANY unscrupulous sellers that prey on naive buyers.
posted on August 20, 2001 11:54:59 AM new
I was wondering, too, how on earth do you authenticate it???
I live in the world of serial numbers and lists of complete lines of manufactured widgets, so this is quite a curious thing for me.
You never know what you find in a dumpster.
posted on August 20, 2001 11:58:46 AM new
As far as I'm concerned there's nothing wrong with selling it, but if it was me, before I did so, I would contact the Screen Actors Guild to find out who Freddie Prinze Jr.'s agent is and leave a message with his agent that you have this item, if he would like it back.
If you got no response, then I would have no problem with selling it to a fan, but I do agree that you should try to return it to his family first.
posted on August 20, 2001 12:30:49 PM new
I, too, read the article on Freddie Prinze, JR and am sure that he would love to have that bracelet. Imagine being able to give the son one of the last things his Dad had on him. It is such a personal item. I do remember seeing pictures of him with a bracelet on. I wonder if it is the same one.
I am sure that you will receive back ten thousand fold whatever you give to him.
Get Sunday's paper and read the article. I am sure there will be no question in your mind what to do then.
posted on August 20, 2001 12:35:39 PM new
jeanyu? What else do you think caused me to compose such a brilliant post? A follow up article by Parade still sounds like good copy to me, even if it sounds like URK! to you.
posted on August 20, 2001 12:48:25 PM new
Either sell the item, or return it to the family. But don't try to combine the two objectives.
If you return it to the family, return it free and clear and without expectation of being compensated.
If you're going to sell it, then sell it and let the chips fall where they may. Don't even contact the family.
But if you approach the family and offer to return it for a price, you will come off as the worst kind of parasite -- one who profits from personal tragedy. And the media will be all too ready to portray you as such.
posted on August 20, 2001 01:43:16 PM new
SPAZ hit the nail on the head. "Hello Mr. Prinze Jr. I got your father's bracelet out of a dumpster. I'll let you have it for $10,000." One or the other, don't try both.
posted on August 20, 2001 01:43:51 PM new
Spaz--you have taken the utmost high road here in morality. Give it back to the family-gratis.
I agree that the family should have this item if they want it--but----and a big but--they left it go at one time due to stress, grief--whatever. So now we have a person that swooped it out of the garbage many years ago.
To offer it to them first,at an agreed upon price, without the public "whoo ha" seems the most delicate way to handle this situation.
After all, it was thrown in the trash.
Could be in the landfill but for the foresightedness of harleytrader2000.
A parasite? I don't think so.
You are looking at this situation as black or white. There are many shades of gray.
Tell me, the next time you are at an estate sale and you buy something wildly undervalued, are you going to go to the family and say, " My goodness-this item just received $200.00 on eBay, I cannot buy it for $5.00."
We are sellers here. No Double Standards for Famous Family Screw Ups. They threw it away.
I applaud Harleytrader2000 for their doubts about what they should do. It is a hard decision.
edited to add--a fair appraisal of said bracelet is in order for it to be fair to both parties, if the Prinze estate is even interested.
[ edited by jeanyu on Aug 20, 2001 01:47 PM ]
posted on August 20, 2001 02:33:31 PM newTell me, the next time you are at an estate sale and you buy something wildly undervalued, are you going to go to the family and say, " My goodness-this item just received $200.00 on eBay, I cannot buy it for $5.00."
Apples and oranges, jeanyu. The bracelet wasn't purchased, nor ever offered for sale. It was plucked from the trash where a suicide occurred. From a dead man's personal effects. It was thrown away, perhaps in a fit of grief or irrationality (the suicide of a loved one tends to skew one's judgement).
The person now in possession of the bracelet made no financial investment in it. While I do not dispute his right to dispose of it as he sees fit, I don't believe the usual ethics of buy/resell apply here.
In my eyes, (and I stress, this is just how I see it), the idea of offering it to the family for a price smacks of extortion. Preying on their emotions for profit. You give me the money, I give you your dad's bracelet.
I couldn't do it. Wouldn't do it.
I'd like to believe that the bracelet was rescued for some greater reason, maybe to give a young man (regardless that he is famous) something to remember his father by after all these years. Not to line somebody else's pockets.
Wouldn't the knowledge that you did that for someone be reward enough, jeanyu?
You say "we are sellers here" the same way Blackbeard might have said "We are pirates here," as if what we do absolves us of common decency and the responsibility of treating others the way we would wish to be treated.
What if it weren't Freddie Prinze we were talking about? What if the bracelet just belonged to some nobody who killed himself and left a widow and children behind, then many years later someone approached one of the children and said, "I have something very personal belonging to your father. I pulled it out of the trash from the hotel room where he blew his head off. It's yours for a price." What would our opinion of such a person be? Not very good, I'll wager.
But because it's Freddie Prinze, and because his child is very successful and there's the possibility of a substantial amount of money to be made, some are acting as though this situation is different -- that such an offer is respectable because "we are sellers here."
It's no different. It's the same unseemly offer.
I stand by my original advice. If you give it back to the family, do it free and clear. If not, leave the family out of it and sell it for everything it's worth.
posted on August 20, 2001 02:50:17 PM new
I agree with spazmodeus. It would be pretty crass to try to sell it to a family member, though in your last post, harleytrader2000, it didn't sound like you were planning to do that. You're much more thoughtful than many sellers for carefully considering what should be done with this item.
If Freddie Jr. wants the bracelet, just send him over to my house as payment.
Edited for misspelling a fellow poster's name.
[ edited by RainyBear on Aug 20, 2001 02:50 PM ]
posted on August 20, 2001 03:04:48 PM new
Spaz, the morality issue. The buyers and sellers issue.
I just deleted a bunch of arguement. I feel the bottom line is--
a bracelet was retreived from the garbage. The immediate family at this time would probably treasure this item.
Rather than selling it online, have it appraised and sell it to the interested family member.
Our business is trash (bottom line one man's trash is anothers treasure)--one way or another. Whether pitched into the garbage or sold at a sale--it is unwanted at the time.
Again, the highest finest upper moral road would be to return this bracelet gratis to the family. A fine noble deed.
But, I ask you when you buy a $200.00 item for $5.00, do you protest and insist on giving the sellers at least half the value, $100.00?
Just wondering. Pontification is so self gratifying, but reality is reality. JMHO.
I guess you missed it when I said "apples and oranges." It's not the same as buy/resell.
Of course, if you see opportunity in situations like this, perhaps you should start combing the streets for lost dogs and cats, then call up their owners and offer to return them -- for a price.
