posted on August 20, 2001 03:28:54 PM new
I think Spaz is right on the money (although like Rainybear I didn't get the feeling that Harleytrader was going to ask the family for money).
Everything doesn't have to have a price. Maybe I'm nuts, but to me the warm fuzzies or good karma (or whatever else you'd call it) one could get for returning a personal item like this far outweighs the potential $$$.
JMO
Argh
posted on August 20, 2001 03:29:47 PM new
Spaz- do not derail the issue. A lost cat or dog is wanted and missing. It has been not thrown away!
The Bracelet in question was deliberately thrown away back in '77.
I find it interesting that you will not answer my question about a sale. What would you do Spaz if you found a $200.00 item for $5.00? Just wondering? And why do you not think this has absolutely every right to be asked. After all, you know this item is worth $200.00, the sellers are asking $5.00. Doesn't your moral fortitude kick in and tell the sellers, "gracious--this is worth at least $100.00. Thanks for letting me pay you at least $100.00."
We all have serindipity in our lives. Sometimes we don't know it when it happens, but later on it proves fruitful.
My best serindipity--buying a lucite paperweight for a nickel and selling it on ebay for $80.00. Did I feel a moral obligation to go back to the garage seller and give them some more money? Ha Ha!!
Not in this lifetime.
[ edited by jeanyu on Aug 20, 2001 03:49 PM ]
posted on August 20, 2001 03:44:36 PM new
Having a hard time, spaz, finding the apples and oranges.
jeanyu's analogy, buying a valuable object at an estate sale that the family had underpriced, is quite appropriate to this situation, IMO.
By discarding the bracelet, the family effectively determined the object worthless. harleytrader was smart/lucky enough to be present and realize its value.
Right or wrong, it was the families in both instances who set the "price."
As you assert, one can't have it both ways. Do you offer to pay more, or inform the family of their error, when finding underpriced merchandise?
posted on August 20, 2001 03:54:18 PM newThe Bracelet in question was deliberately thrown away back in '77.
Prove it. I think a more likely scenario is that it was thrown away by accident, or because the person doing the cleaning was out of their head with grief and not thinking straight.
posted on August 20, 2001 04:13:34 PM newYikes! ...
in 1960, when I was 12, I was pushed onto JFK's shoes & bit off a lace! I've cherished that shoe-lace ever since & would love to auction it...but...how to prove??
in 1969, had a few drinks with Janis Joplin & swiped the Southern Comfort bottle...I've cherished that bottle ever since & would love to auction it...but...
in 1976, Jimma Carta gave me a peanut in Portland, ME, and I've cherished......
posted on August 20, 2001 04:15:02 PM new
Here's an update...
I have composed and sent a certified letter to Freddie Prinze JR. care of/VIA his personal agent, whom I located through the Screen Actors Guild. (BTW...it's actually quite easy to locate an artist's agent's address, just call the union on Wilshire and Doheny Road in Beverly Hills.)
If the family wants the item it's theirs at NO CHARGE WHAT-SO-EVER. A glass of wine or an autograph might be nice but not expected.
I will wait a reasonable length of time however and if there's no response or interest, I will list it on Ebay and give a portion of the proceeds to a charity (without mentioning that in the auction per Ebay rules)
Thank all of you for your opinions. I think you see that harleytrader2000 (me) is not a ghoul or grave robber, (heck, I peddle motorcycle parts, hence the name) or I would have just slapped it up on the auctions and made a few bucks rather than asking my fellow professional sellers (you folks) for opinions.
Also, when I did retrieve the bracelet 24 years ago, it was just for a memento callously (spl?) discarded by a rather cold estranged wife rather than thinking '24 years from now there will be this thing called Ebay and I can sell it and make a small fortune.'
In any event, thanks again for your input. I can assure all of you that whatever eventually happens with the bracelet, it will be with the respect and honor of a very tragic life.
posted on August 20, 2001 04:26:36 PM new
harleytrader2000, you are a class act! And I have a funny feeling that you would have done what you did, no matter what our insignificant chatter said!
What goes around comes around.
You will determine what is best in this situation. Good Wishes.
posted on August 20, 2001 04:55:01 PM new
Interesting thread. Not long ago, I blundered into a similar moral dilemma with an item I had already listed on eBay. It was a diary I from the 1940s that I found in a junk shop. I could tell from scattered references to film production work at Warner Brothers that whoever had kept the diary was a high ranking member of the WB company. References to social events with several big stars made me think that the diary would be of great interest to a memorabillia collector, but how could I list it without knowing whose it was? So I read the entire book, cross-referencing the names of films worked on with family members' first names and hints about national origin. Following a web search I discovered the name of the diarist and that he was an Academy Award nominee.
Within a day of listing I received an email from a woman identifying herself as his daughter, and saying the diary had disappeared from the man's home following his death. A friend had spotted it on eBay and told her about the auction. She wanted it, but didn't think it was worth the $250 buy it now price. Would I make a deal?
I thought for maybe 20 minutes and ended the auction. I couldn't let this person face the stress of an auction climate should anyone else choose the bid on her father's book. But she didn't ask me to give it to her outright, nor would I have wanted to do so. Without my detective work, she never would have known that this was written by her father. It would have been an interesting anonymous Hollywood journal, with a few valuable references in it. I accepted $50 for the diary, which was less than I expected to get for it, but seemed a fair compensation for my time and (small) investment.
I was happy to let it go essentially at cost, and even went back to the store to look (without any luck) for anything else that might have been his. If I had found anything else, the daughter could have had that for whatever the store charged me.
Oh, and I did ask for a xerox of her photo ID with the payment, just to be sure...
posted on August 20, 2001 07:01:18 PM new
Harley, you're a good man. I'm proud of you.
I just wanted to say that had the idea of offering it to his son not come up, that IMO listing it on ebay would not be "profitting from a tragedy." Freddie Prinz was a simply fabulous comic -- I still mourn his loss. But it wasn't his tragic, premature death that makes him famous and the item desirable, but rather what a star he was while he lived.
Make sense?
You happened to come by the piece as a result of his untimely death, but there wasn't a profit motive in your salvaging effort then, and so you needn't be concerned about that aspect now. You don't sound to me like a grave robber.
posted on August 20, 2001 08:06:15 PM new
Don't worry about it. Sell it and make both yourself and the lucky bidder happy. You shouldn't feel immoral about earning a living. What a great find you've got there!!! Wow! Congrats!
"Anything the mind of man can believe and conceive, it CAN ACHIEVE!"
posted on August 20, 2001 09:01:09 PM newEventer may be onto something. Sell it to Parade along with your story. It would make great copy.
ACK! Just for the record, I want to state that I didn't recommend this! I saw the article in Parade Magazine and said I thought his son might like to have it!
harleytrader2000
What a lovely thing to do! I wish you the best of luck and hope your wonderful gesture is kindly received by his son.
Please keep us updated on the progress of this story.
posted on August 20, 2001 09:21:26 PM new
Nice thing to do harleytrader.
I had something akin to what amscray was telling about happen to me.
I was selling a songbook from the 1930's that was of a very famous country music duo. I found the book for $2.00 at an antique shop and I thought it was good enough to try to sell on ebay. A daughter of one of the singers in this duo contacted me and told me she hoped to win the book. She went on to say that the family moved around a lot in the old days so they had not very much memorbilia or momentos from their dad (who incidently is posthumously going into the Country Music Hall of Fame later this year). I thought about it for a little while and ended the auction and sent it to her. She promised me it would be displayed in a museum (not sure which museum, but I can ask her).
She has been very sweet and has sent me several emails and a Media Package of her famous father and the duo he was in.
[ edited by loosecannon on Aug 20, 2001 09:31 PM ]
posted on August 20, 2001 09:51:51 PM new
I don't see anything wrong with selling the bracelet. And FP Jr. is loaded. $10,000 bucks to him is a day's work, like $50 bucks to most of us. It would certainly be WORTH that. Offering it to the family is in NO way extortion.
I might contact the family (son) first. Now what would that accomplish? What is Jr. going to say? "Give it to me, you parasite!" That's a bit inappropriate, isn't it? You don't have to be crass about it. "I am in posession of this bracelet and would like to auction it on eBay." If it's important to him, he'll make an offer before the item goes up for bid. If not, then not.
If the Hollywood upper crust understand anything, it's the value of money. If FP Jr. tells you you're crass, maybe he's either being cheap or he just doesn't really care. What if you "give" it to him and he throws it away?
Lots of famous artists committed suicide. Does that mean we shouldn't sell their artwork?
Put yourself in his position. If it means something to him, he'll pay a fair price and THANK you for offering it to him. (Or maybe he'll "snipe" it on eBay.) JMHO.
posted on August 20, 2001 09:58:37 PM new
When I posted the above, I completely missed the second page of this thread. Oh well, done deal. Glad I didn't print "don't be a chump" like I originally considered. Well, you did a nice thing. Kindness is its own reward, yada yada.
posted on August 20, 2001 10:11:53 PM new
Eventer you mentioned parade magazine and the article and it made me think that they may want to purchase it as a gift to FPJr along with a follow up story. Didn't mean to imply it was your idea.
harleytrader2000, let us know what happens. You are doing a good thing.
posted on August 20, 2001 10:17:03 PM new
this has been one of the most interesting, revealing, and touching threads i've read.
harleytrader, you're something else. what class . i'm sure Freddie Prinze Jr. will greatly appreciate your kind and thoughtful gesture if he gets your message through his agent.
jeanyu, i agree with spaz - apples and oranges. someone themselves sells a $200 widget for $5 has only a monetary value, and they set the price. in this case someone other than the interested party (freddie prinze jr) threw away an item that will probably have great sentimental value. of course if the seller were a senior citizen living on cat food, yeah, that would be a much better analogy.
posted on August 21, 2001 05:53:48 AM new...someone themselves sells a $200 widget for $5 has only a monetary value, and they set the price. in this case someone other than the interested party (freddie prinze jr) threw away an item that will probably have great sentimental value...
If you're going to create a scenario for comparison, you need to create one that's similar. Freddie Prinze didn't throw his bracelet away. His family did.
Similarly, the merchandise at estate sales is being dispensed with by the family of the deceased. As many of us know, families sometimes undervalue the worth of some of the deceased's belongings.
Would it also follow that those who shop estate sales have a moral obligation to *not* buy the bargains and instead educate the family on the true value of the objects?
Definitely not apples and oranges, it looks more like a double standard to me.
posted on August 21, 2001 09:30:05 AM new
Harley, I hope you'll keep us posted on developments, so we can live vicariously through you! To give the bracelet to Freddie Jr. was definitely the best choice.
posted on August 21, 2001 09:43:08 AM new
SELL IT.
There is no legit claim of missing/theft since it was 20+ years ago. Even if it WAS stolen, the statute of limitations is long expired.
I'd just stick it up for sale and let the high bidder buy it.
However, are there THAT many fans of Freddie Prinze? He was on the scene a very short period of time and most famous because of his suicide at the height of his career. I loved "Chico and the Man", but does he still have a following? He wasn't Elvis or anything.
posted on August 21, 2001 10:28:29 AM new
I promise to keep you posted. It may be awhile though, as I'm allowing enough time for the letter to reach the agent, be forwarded to Freddie Junior, wait for a response, etc.
If there is no response or no interest, I will sell it on Ebay. Frankly, as someone said above, I don't think it's really worth all THAT much. He wasn't Elvis...But, I'm sure some fan would appreciate it.
It's sitting right in front of me on the computer now. Nice piece. Black leather strap with a silver 2" part that says "CHICO" on the front, "Love, Jack" on the back and on each clasp they're an "F" and a "P."
posted on August 21, 2001 10:36:26 AM new
Actually Freddie Prinze was INCREDIBLY popular,granted for a Short time. He also was One of the FEW minorities to make it BIG in Hollywood at that time. Also of note, he is also one of the Few to have his Progeny follow Successfully in his Footsteps.
[ edited by docpjw on Aug 21, 2001 10:37 AM ]
posted on August 21, 2001 10:36:47 AM new
No, Freddie Prinze wasn't Elvis - he was much better looking! He was a wonderful comedian - and I, too, was a fan. In fact, that was the main reason I checked out his first movie - and I was pleasantly surprised!
I saw him last night on the Seventeen Magazine awards and marveled at the wonderful surprise he is about to get. HA! How cool is it that we know something he doesn't?
Up until now, what strangers have told him about his father have caused him pain. Now this. I know if I were in his shoes, I would be eternally grateful to Harley.
I remember him wearing a bracelet on his show and seeing pictures of him with it on. At the time I thought it was so different for a guy to be wearing a bracelet. I wonder if it is the same one ....
Harleytrader, I really admire you for this. Please keep us posted.
On the other hand, if he passes on the offer I would search for some pictures of him - I'll bet you'll see that bracelet in one of them.
posted on August 21, 2001 12:07:13 PM new
Harley, you're truly a class act. If FP Jr. has the same amount of class, he'll offer to send you some money for your "guardianship" all these years. If he wants it back but doesn't offer you anything, you will at least have the satisfaction of knowing that you have done a VERY good thing.
posted on August 21, 2001 12:11:17 PM new
This thread has me totally captivated! I think that Harleytrader is doing the right thing, for sure. Karma is karma...good or bad.
But one thing..you've totally piqued my curiosity, would you consider posting a picture so we could all see the bracelet?
posted on August 21, 2001 01:07:39 PM new
How do you know karma isn't real?
Wait, wrong board!
Harley...wow, it sounds like quite a personal item.
I wonder if anyone has emailed FP jr's agent to tell him about the discussion on this board?
These days I'd say it's more like 4-5 degrees of separation!
