posted on September 14, 2001 09:59:04 AM new
Someone emailed me and told me he was disgusted by what Jerry Falwell said. Apperently Falwell said "this tragedy was a result of the secularization of America insulting God and thus removing us from some special divine layer of protection". So basically, he's blaming the ACLU and not having prayer in public school, and saying that helped this happen.
Is this true? How can he say that, sounds like he is trying to win points to gain himself popularity off this tragedy! Has anyone else heard of this?
posted on September 14, 2001 10:29:38 AM new
It was reported on CNN early this morning that he said that gays and lesbians were also at the root of what happened. What the &*(&*^? Anyway, they then reported that he had apologized for his statement.
posted on September 14, 2001 10:41:41 AM newhttp://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A28620-2001Sep14.html
Falwell and Robertson apparently think God is on the side of the terrorists.
Those two guys are sick puppies.
Why do I wish they were in the WTC towers?
[ edited by capotasto on Sep 14, 2001 10:43 AM ]
posted on September 14, 2001 10:48:57 AM new
And they are supposed to be our religious leaders? I can't even find the right words to express my disgust with them.
posted on September 14, 2001 10:50:21 AM new
Does anyone with an ounce of brains take Jerry Falwell seriously? As I recall, he also said that the little kids' TV cartoon character ( whose names I do not recall) - the purple one with with what he called a purse was promoting homosexuality in children.
buyhigh
posted on September 14, 2001 10:56:05 AM new
It's proof that Middle Eastern people don't have the corner on hateful wackos - we have our own right here at home ... and these are the mild ones.
posted on September 14, 2001 11:04:06 AM new
Everyone:
There are many threads now open in the Ebay Outlook Forum that do not apply to E-bay activities and should be opened in the Round Table Forum. As of now, we are going to leave those threads open but in the future, they may be locked. Also in the future, please open any new threads in the Round Table.
Please be aware, we are not trying to stifle conversation, but despite the events of Tuesday, people are still doing business on eBay and need the eBay forum for business advice.
Thank you for your co-operation and understanding.
posted on September 14, 2001 11:14:14 AM new
Sounds as if BOTH of these guys are ready to fire up their next fund-raising drive! If you look at their track records, they use the same inflamatory buzz words to scare the "faithful" into sending them millions upon millions of dollars each year! This is just an almost TOO obvious way to roll all of it into one big fundraiser! "Prevent another attack! Send us money to battle the evil from within!"
I would think that both of these "men of God" would have been using their time, talent, and airwaves to help bring a bruised nation together and get their followers to do the things the Bible says should be done at a time like this:
Care for the widows....
Care for the orphans...
Help those in need...
and PRAY!
Jerry and Pat.....this is one christian (who just so happens to also be gay!) that will include in my prayers today for God to touch your hearts and heal you both!
posted on September 14, 2001 12:03:25 PM new
God Gave U.S. 'What We Deserve,' Falwell Says
By John F. Harris
Washington Post Staff Writer
Friday, September 14, 2001; Page C03
Television evangelists Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson, two of the most prominent voices of the religious right, said liberal civil liberties groups, feminists, homosexuals and abortion rights supporters bear partial responsibility for Tuesday's terrorist attacks because their actions have turned God's anger against America.
"God continues to lift the curtain and allow the enemies of America to give us probably what we deserve," said Falwell, appearing yesterday on the Christian Broadcasting Network's "700 Club," hosted by Robertson.
"Jerry, that's my feeling," Robertson responded. "I think we've just seen the antechamber to terror. We haven't even begun to see what they can do to the major population."
Falwell said the American Civil Liberties Union has "got to take a lot of blame for this," again winning Robertson's agreement: "Well, yes."
Then Falwell broadened his blast to include the federal courts and others who he said were "throwing God out of the public square." He added: "The abortionists have got to bear some burden for this because God will not be mocked. And when we destroy 40 million little innocent babies, we make God mad. I really believe that the pagans, and the abortionists, and the feminists, and the gays and the lesbians who are actively trying to make that an alternative lifestyle, the ACLU, People for the American Way -- all of them who have tried to secularize America -- I point the finger in their face and say, 'You helped this happen.' "
People for the American Way transcribed the broadcast and denounced the comments as running directly counter to President Bush's call for national unity. Ralph G. Neas, the liberal group's president, called the remarks "absolutely inappropriate and irresponsible."
Robertson and others on the religious right gave critical backing to Bush last year when he was battling for the GOP presidential nomination. A White House official called the remarks "inappropriate" and added, "The president does not share those views."
Falwell was unrepentant, saying in an interview that he was "making a theological statement, not a legal statement."
"I put all the blame legally and morally on the actions of the terrorist," he said. But he said America's "secular and anti-Christian environment left us open to our Lord's [decision] not to protect. When a nation deserts God and expels God from the culture . . . the result is not good."
Robertson was not available for comment, a spokeswoman said. But she released a statement echoing the remarks he made on his show. An ACLU spokeswoman said the group "will not dignify the Falwell-Robertson remarks with a comment."
posted on September 14, 2001 12:21:51 PM new
If I remember my Old Testament correctly, didn't God tell Lot that he would not destroy Sodom and Gammora (spelled right?) if there was one righteous man standing? Something to ponder.
posted on September 14, 2001 12:40:29 PM new
I wouldn't be so quick to ridicule and be so arrogant as to believe that there is not some truth to what they said. Our laws do allow for the murder of babies in the womb, do they not? You don't believe that is an abomination? In direct contrast to this country's Christian values?
Edited to remove incorrect and/or offensive content.
[ edited by loosecannon on Sep 14, 2001 01:28 PM ]
posted on September 14, 2001 12:51:52 PM new
I could debate your comments for days loosecannon, but instead, I'll just walk away from the computer for a while, I'm feeling very heterophobic right now.
posted on September 14, 2001 12:55:47 PM new
FWIW, the Bible is filled with accounts of Israel turning from God and reaping various chastisements; and by repenting they are again blessed with God's providence. This has played out in the history of other nations and individuals as well.
I wouldn't be presumptious enough to guess God's motives in this attack even if I understand how someone might come to this conclusion.
posted on September 14, 2001 12:56:52 PM new
Loosecannon wrote, "And have we not pushed God out of public schools? A kid can't even pray in school if he wants to?"
Nonsense. Any child can pray silently at school anytime they wish. Some public schools even provide an area of the school for the kids to pray after classes are over. What kids cannot do is disrupt classes with audible prayers - a concept I find quite reasonable. There's a time and place for things...I'd like to think my kids are at school to learn.
posted on September 14, 2001 12:58:08 PM new'Nuff said.
Not when some of it is not true.
And have we not pushed God out of public schools? A kid can't even pray in school if he wants to?
Factors to Consider About School Prayer:
This topic generates a great deal more heat than light. A number of points are might be considered concerning prayer and other religious activities in public classrooms:
Contrary to generally held belief, prayer is not forbidden in public schools. A student can come early to class, sit quietly, and pray silently. Similarly, with some discipline, a student can pray upon rising, as a family before leaving home, even (if they can concentrate over the noise) in a school bus, in the cafeteria, etc.
What the constitution allows:
School religious speech: Students can carry Bible or other religious texts to and in school. They can pray before eating. A student can pray on the school bus, in the cafeteria, in classrooms before and after class, in the corridors, in the washrooms, etc. They can wear T-shirts with religious text. They can wear religious jewelry (buttons, symbols). They can hand out religious materials. They can freely talk about religion to fellow students, outside of class. They can pray before eating in the cafeteria. These are well-known freedoms guaranteed by the U.S. Constitution.
I don't get any special rights for being heterosexual. Neither should a Gay person get any special rights or recognition.
What special rights are gays asking for? The biggest thing I have seen in the news lately is that they would like to have the right to marry whomever they choose- a right currently enjoyed by heterosexuals, if I'm not mistaken.
posted on September 14, 2001 01:04:59 PM new
Well, I don't think pagans are to blame...the ones I know are pretty well peace loving folks.
I've been pregnant 2 times. My first baby was murdered while he was inside me. For some reason I believe it was going to be a boy. I was a couple months pregnant and was attacked and beaten and my baby died. The law wouldn't punish my attackers. My baby was as human as my other child is. My other child I conceived through rape, but I carried her anyway. She's now 5. Everyone wanted me to have her killed, but I said no and had her anyway. Babies born as early as 19 wks old have survived, and thousands of abortions each year are performed at this age and later.
I don't think God has ever had any type of protection for this country.
I don't think gays should have extra rights, but I don't dislike someone for being gay. At least I know a gay man isn't going to beat or rape me.
Considering God wants women to be slaves to men and be their punching bags, I've not too much interest in him.
posted on September 14, 2001 01:08:00 PM new
Loosecannon: Are you really willing to give up the "special rights" that YOU have as a heterosexual so that EQUAL rights apply?
....The special right to file a joint tax return with your spouse at a lower rate?
....The special right to multitudes of tax and inheirtence laws?
....The special right to visit your spouse in an intensive care unit?
....The special right to have a photo of your loved one on your desk at work?
....The special right to discounts on auto insurance for couples?
....The special right of family memberships at health clubs?
....The special right to walk along a moonlit beach hand-in-hand?
....The special right to go to work each day without fear of harassment over who you kissed on the cheek before you left?
....The special right of family leave to care for an ill spouse?
If you would look around you, and SEE the people that are there.....THOSE are the "special rights" they want.....THE SAME ONES YOU ALREADY HAVE AND TAKE FOR GRANTED!
posted on September 14, 2001 01:16:13 PM new
"Judge not lest you be judged. Judge not the sin of another lest you be judged of that sin. Care not about the speck in anothers eye. Pluck first the log from your own."
Isn't it funny how some supposed men of God seem to forget on a daily basis that it is not a Christian thing to do, to go around judging others sins. It is Gods job.
posted on September 14, 2001 01:56:13 PM new
loosecannon:
Thanks for the retraction. Sorry to have gotten UP on the soapbox, but the Falwell thing was just a little more than I could take. At this point in our country's life, we ALL need to be together as one; not pointing fingers at each other!
Actually, if the "good" Mr. Falwell was to look at the REALITY of this tragedy....the U.S. has been targeted BECAUSE of the christian beliefs that the Islams hate so vehmently. Their attack is a much a RELIGIOUS statement as it is a political one!Therefore, using the same "reasoning" Falwell used.... HE & ROBERTSON could be construed to be partially to blame????
(said VERY tongue in cheek!)
edited cause my mind wandered....if you see it, please send it home!
[ edited by thepackratsattic on Sep 14, 2001 02:01 PM ]
posted on September 14, 2001 02:09:38 PM newThanks for the retraction
I opened mouth/inserted foot. I've done it before. But I really meant no harm, honestly.
Right now I'm going to do the most American thing I can think of. I'm taking my little daughter to the city park so she can play for a while, and then I'm getting back to work.
posted on September 14, 2001 03:03:46 PM new
Personally believe religous zealots whether they be Christion, Muslim, Hindu or whatever are very dangerous people and to be avoided. I classify both Falwell and Robertson in that group.
buyhigh
posted on September 14, 2001 03:10:21 PM new
It is amazing to me how many people forget that christianaity is supposed to be a postive thing. Instead it is used to cloak so many negative feelings.
posted on September 14, 2001 04:00:57 PM new
If these two wish to spout their garbage as gospel, they should have the decency to form their own religion, cause the ideals they profess are certainly not those I believe to be Christian. If I were Roberston & Falwell I would be keeping my eyes to the sky. Not for terrorist planes, but rather for the rath of their God for thinking themselves worthy enough to (mis)judge others.
posted on September 14, 2001 04:08:18 PM new
Fallwell and Robertson are EXACTLY the same as those crazy mullahs who believe that America must be destroyed. Most religions have noble goals on paper, but are very often warped by monkeys like these for their own ends.
I hear many people talk of deporting arabs/muslims but I say leave innocent people alone, I'd rather see Fallwell and Robertson sent to Afghanistan where they could spend some quality time with their philosphical brethren, at least for the amount of time it takes for them to be executed.
While I beleive in God, I refuse to let another man (especially a crazy one) stand between me and my creator and interpret his will for me. That's why I have a mind and a soul. Who needs religion?
posted on September 14, 2001 04:20:08 PM new
I'm Not so sure they were Judgeing or miss Judgeing anyone or any group.
These Men Are evangelists, evangelists mainly stir up Christians and bring a fundamental spiritual awakeing.
Remember this usually most Truth and honesty rarely will leave a feeling of comfort or a worm fuzzy feeling.
If you are or are not a Christain and want to read and see some awakeing sobering truth Open a bible to Revelations chapter 18 while watching the News on tv about what happen in NYC what many call the money pit of the world this week..
I'm not so sure this is god turning his back but it sure was a sign of the comeing times..
posted on September 14, 2001 04:36:48 PM new
Truth and honesty have nothing to do with it. Fallwell and Robertson are cult leaders and politicians, no different than Bin Laden. They are men (very flawed ones at that) who rarely hesitate to couch their hate speech in religious terms.
They remind me of the opportunists among the Palestinians who see this mass murder as an oppurtunity to chastise America to further their own position.
