posted on September 14, 2001 04:39:00 PM
Hi Thepackratsattic -- First, please know that no offense is intended. I am just feeling argumentative, I guess. I question the accuracy of your list of "Special rights." I think most of those are not rights, but perhaps, privileges. Wouldn't rights actually mean some benefit that is applied by law? (My further comments are in brackets, to separate them from your writing.)
Loosecannon: Are you really willing to give up the "special rights" that YOU have as a heterosexual so that EQUAL rights apply?
....The special right to file a joint tax return with your spouse at a lower rate?
....The special right to multitudes of tax and inheirtence laws?
(I agree that those seem to be rights under current laws.)
....The special right to visit your spouse in an intensive care unit?
(Isn't this a hospital policy, not a right? -- I haven't heard of any law pertaining to this. I believe the restriction is for the protection of the patient, not becuase of WHO the visitor(s) are -- usually restricted to immediate family because of the need to keep the visitors to as few as possible. And I agree that hospitals should be less rigid on this.)
....The special right to have a photo of your loved one on your desk at work?
(Not a right! Bosses can and do restrict photos regardless of whether they're loved ones or not.)
....The special right to discounts on auto insurance for couples?
....The special right of family memberships at health clubs?
(Maybe quasi-rights -- they are mostly due to the policies of the particular companies, rather than laws, I believe.)
....The special right to walk along a moonlit beach hand-in-hand?
(Also not a right. It depends on where and when, and who owns the beach. I think you will find that non-white heterosexuals are discriminated against in this regard, as well as homosexuals, depending on the place.)
....The special right to go to work each day without fear of harassment over who you kissed on the cheek before you left?
(Is this about kissing in public? Or about co-habiting? While there is more prejudice against homosexual couples, especially about public affection, it would depend on the work environment whether one is harassed for kissing their spouse or not. Still not a right, in my eyes -- there are no laws prohibiting it, are there?)
....The special right of family leave to care for an ill spouse?
(Again, I believe this falls under company policy rather than rights. BTW, I know of people who have been fired for taking care of ill family members --whether spouse or children.)
If you would look around you, and SEE the people that are there.....THOSE are the "special rights" they want.....THE SAME ONES YOU ALREADY HAVE AND TAKE FOR GRANTED!
I think that what you're really meaning is lack of prejudice. Is "lack of prejudice" a special right? I don't think so. Prejudice is inside a person and it can run in any direction. Blacks can be prejudiced against whites. Homosexuals can be prejudiced against heterosexuals. And vice versa. It is so sad when people are prejudiced against other people. Unfortunately, as American history shows, predjudice isn't likely to disappear in even a generation or two. But we all need to work towards reducing it.
Violetta
(Not known by this nickname anywhere but here.)
posted on September 14, 2001 05:56:04 PM
Religious zealotry and poitical agendas may have been one of the reasons for this attack, more like Religion was used as an excuse for there behavior and political agendas.
I feel no need to find excuses for these terrorist activitys, These were hate muders plan and simple.
IF this country is truely going to wake up to what is going on in the world it also has to wake up and stop useing these little cute P.C. soft mushy terms and start calling it like it is.
posted on September 15, 2001 06:10:58 AM
I'd rather live in a country where someone can still say something "offensive" than one that advocates murder-suicide as something spiritually desirable and patriotic.
For those worried about "intolerant" or "homophobic" evangelists, try living an openly alternative lifestyle in a country run by some of these fundamentalist Islamic folks. You'd soon find it better to be in a world where the media played nothing but Dr. Laura!
[ edited by mballai on Sep 15, 2001 06:12 AM ]
posted on September 15, 2001 08:50:00 AM
violetta: Can understand where you are coming from with your examples. The point(s) I was attempting to make were that the words "special rights" are often used by the subjects of this thread to INFLAME their followers. And just as the words that were used by Falwell & Robertson the other night...used incorrectly!
While your definition of "rights" and "priviledges" is technically correct in most cases, the truth remains that the examples I cited are indeed rights/priviledges/"bennies" that ARE IN FACT normally extended to heterosexuals and taken for granted by them. Those who are gay, are smeared by the "vocal right" for asking for the SAME rights/priviledges/"bennies" with the inflamatory buzzwords of "demanding special rights". In my heart of hearts, I really feel the Falwell's, et al, do this NOT because of their belief system, but rather due to the fact that they can raise huge sums of money with the irrational fears they create in people who listen to them blindly.
In any case, I found it rather interesting to note that the Falwell/Robertson fiasco got virtually NO coverage last night and that Mr. Falwell was quite reserved on his own TV show. While he did issue a semi-retraction & veiled apology/explanation for his comments; the fact remains that the two of them DID make the statements and it was IMPOSSIBLE to misunderstand what was being said! I think those of us who were offended are willing to forgive.....when they quit trying to "politically spin" the statements and ask for us to forgive their rash words!
[ edited by thepackratsattic on Sep 15, 2001 10:35 AM ]
posted on September 15, 2001 09:33:34 PMWhile he did issue a semi-retraction & veiled apology/explanation for his comments; the fact remains that the two of them DID make the statements and it was IMPOSSIBLE to misunderstand what was being said!
I must agree, Falwell's follow-up "apology/explanation" was incredibly lame. "Oh, I didn't mean that I was blaming the ACLU, feminists, gays, lesbians, etc ...."
Uh, that's funny, Jerry. Because that's exactly what you said.
posted on September 15, 2001 10:55:23 PM
tigressoflove- kudos to you! Your bravery is exceptional. For what it's worth, the God that I personally know does NOT see women as a "slave to men" or as a punching bag, either. God's love is for everyone (men, women, gay, straight, etc), and God loves unconditionally. God loves you, and whether you want to accept that love or reject it, is entirely up to you...I find that my life is happier now that I've acknowledged God's love and accepted it...but that is my choice!
I think that people are fed a lot of untruths about God. My best friend is a gay man...who was told from an early age that "God hates faggots". This is COMPLETELY UNTRUE! It is spiritual abuse for anyone to say such a thing! I think there are a lot of people out there who wrongly use their view of God to control others. GOD LOVES EVERYONE! don't ever let anyone tell you otherwise!
dman- I just read revelations 18, and I have to ask- just where exactly is Babylon anyway? (I am embarrassed to not know this!)
posted on September 16, 2001 06:21:30 AM
I am quite amazed as to how many people think they all know how God feels about specific things.Life styles etc that all are acceptable to him.
All of this without giving some proof or background.
I guess we tend to forget that the answers to these questions can be found in the Bible.
But I guess that depends on if we believe it or not.
I hear a lot of people that say that God loves homosexuals and they are acceptable to him.
Yet if you look in the scriptures in say the King James Bible for example.
1 Cor 6:9-10 it says that practicers of such a life style WILL NOT inherit God's Kingdom.
Now it does not say God hates them but he has a dislike for their life style that is contrary to what he created as natural.
posted on September 18, 2001 08:55:45 AM
Hi Adrian!
You may be reading some things into my post that I never said.
There are lots of things I have been wondering, and perhaps you can help me out. I am sincerely interested in your answers (or answers from other posters who can help out as well!)
To give you some background info, I am a relatively new Christian. When I came to know the Lord, I found myself in circumstances that I am sure are unacceptable to Him. ("gay-ness" is not one of them, but there are others.) I am working through these circumstances. I am sure that any Christian will tell you they had "circumstances" when they were newly saved. We are all sinners, and no one is perfect- right? God loves murderers, liars, adulterers...He doesn't love the sin but He loves the sinner.
OK. With that in mind, I would like to know what YOUR approach would be, if you were trying to introduce a gay person to God, and show him/her what God's love and Christianity are all about.
BTW, your answer is important to me, because I am facing this issue right now. My friend is very closed off to God, since he has been told all his life that God hates him. He is really searching for answers spiritually. He has asked many questions about my faith, yet is hesitant to put any trust in a God of hate. Who can blame him?
