posted on September 18, 2001 01:25:29 PM new
Reamond...when the charity auction is held on ebay's site, in an ebay charity solicitation program, ebay promoting it, ebay guaranteeing the money will be donated to a specific charity, and ebay has a special icon and search for those auction items, there is no way you can equate letting paypal do the collection and donating of the funds with some group depositing money into a bank account. Ebay has responsibility for the funds, no matter how you want to argue differently.
posted on September 18, 2001 01:27:12 PM new
Bravo lovetoauction. I don't like how ebay has gone about this, but I still listed items on AFA, I also donated my Paypal balance, and contributed to the Firefighters and EMS personnel fund, I don't care how the money gets there, as long as they are not getting their hands on any of it. Don't ever doubt for a minute that ebay does something purely out of the goodness of their own hearts, there is something in it for them somewhere. If you have a problem with it, don't put up any AFA auctions and be done with it, you should know by now that ebay does what it wants and to hell with what everyone else says.
Think of all the time some people have spent griping on these threads, instead of doing something that made a difference.
posted on September 18, 2001 01:34:44 PM new
Thanks for the support hcross. By the way....everyone should check the information on the Auctions for America pages. Ebay HAS already donated $1M to the cause from their own warchest.
This equals most of the contributions from the other corporate donors out there.
posted on September 18, 2001 01:40:17 PM new
hcross - I just wanted to make clear I am participating in the AFA - right now I only have 1 item up but I plan on putting more things up soon. This in addition to the other donations I'm making (like you have).
From the comments in the DNF made yesterday afternoon, sellers have had lots of concerns re: this idea that they don't feel was answered in the beginning.
I think the important thing is that people contribute - whether through AFA or Paypal's collection or a check direct to the Red Cross. And contribute whatever amount THEY wish to do - I've seen people pouncing on Meg/Pierre for not making million $ donations personally... I don't think anyone should judge anyone else for their efforts - there would well be a lot you don't know about that people have chosen NOT to share.
You already raise an excellent point here "Don't ever doubt for a
minute that ebay does something purely out of the goodness of their own hearts,
there is something in it for them somewhere. " - all the companies that have made high profile donations are getting good PR and they know it. That doesn't lessen the good they are doing by making the donations, though.
posted on September 18, 2001 01:53:21 PM new
katiyana, some of us have limited funds right now, althought my website is doing well, my ebay sales have been in the toilet for the last 2 months. I donated all the cash I could already. The items I have listed on AFA have made about $100 so far, they are small and can be cheaply sent. I could not afford to write a check to the Red Cross right now for $100, so even though I do not approve of the way ebay has handled this, I am so glad I have the opportunity they have given me. Life is about choices, sometimes you have to do things you don't like to try and help someone else.
posted on September 18, 2001 01:55:25 PM new
Yes there is something else you can do.
Give donations through another charity and do not participate in ebay's marketing campaign. List the auctions in the regular auctions and donate the proceeds.
eBay would get just what they deserve if the money is given through other avenues and their marketing attempts fizzle. I hope the press picks up what they're trying to pull with their press/marketing ploy and holds them in the light they deserve.
The ONLY way to redeem this situation is to allow Paypal to accept these AFA receipts too.
This "responsibility" for the funds argument is rubbish. eBay would be in no way responsible for embezzled funds by an online payment institution.
eBay wants their name all over the donation. The press accounts so far haven't even mentioned that the sellers are making donations of the proceeds of their goods sold.
In Meg's branding mania, Paypal doesn't exist on eBay.
This branding crusade will be the death of eBay's growth. It has already blinded them ethically.
There has been some concern surrounding whether this has been a legitimte item. I would like to add that it is. I have been out of the office for several days, so I didn't have access to my posting passwords. I finally found my day-planner with the information.
My apologies for any user that did not feel that this was a legitimate item. My apologies also go to katiyana, as I did not expect for users to question the validity of the information contained.
Again, I apologize for any concern this may have caused.
posted on September 18, 2001 06:54:16 PM new
Becky, I read somewhere that they had said no. There went the idea I had in the back of my mind of sending an email to Bidpay (I'm registered with them, and have been using them for 3 years), and seeing if we could get everyone involved.
[ edited by Microbes on Sep 18, 2001 06:55 PM ]
posted on September 19, 2001 05:26:18 AM new
paypaldamon
Thank you for posting here and setting the record straight.
Also, as many others have stated, if ebay would allow PayPal to be included in the AFA auctions we would be listing items also.
However, as is stands, we will be making all of our donations privately and without fanfar.
posted on September 19, 2001 05:45:06 AM new
"I am currently out of the office (as you know)---my passwords for posting are at work..."
I find it hard to believe that paypaldamon can't remember his AW password. Which leads me to ask, katiyana, who are you and why did PPD ask You to post his letter?
(I am sure many others know who you are but it would be nice if you identified yourself for the rest of us.)
posted on September 19, 2001 06:04:30 AM new
I'm just another Ebay seller - I just happen to have a very easy to remember name so Damon was able to remember my email address fairly easily. I've done some Paypal Marketing work for them in the past, but I'm not a Paypal employee or anything like that.
Just a friend who was asked to help by another friend and did so.
Also Cap - if your best friend or a family member had just been killed in such a terrible way, like a lot of people, you'd have trouble remembering your name, more or less a password. I've heard LOTS of stories about people who were personally touched by this getting into their car to go to work and forget how to get there, things like that. The shock of the events throws your mind into a messy state for awhile.
[ edited by katiyana on Sep 19, 2001 06:07 AM ]
posted on September 19, 2001 06:35:40 AM new
It's a pretty sure thing, about now, that WHATEVER paypaldamon says will be ripped to shreds, earmarked as a lie, and branded as ridiculous or unbelievable by a certain group of repeat and repetitive posters.
Just so you know, not everyone jumps on that bandwagon, Damon. I for one don't believe that Paypal is the antichrist (which appears to be how most anti-paypal folks view it).
We are all human beings - we forget things, we do not have access to computers when we are going through a funeral or grieving process. We all have a few folks on online boards who we TRUST - and will entrust them with favors or requests that we in turn are willing to do for them. End of story. Give it a rest, already.
posted on September 19, 2001 07:23:13 AM new
Katiyana-
I have read the vast majority of posts about this issue and the issue of AFA, and probably
all of yours... I wonder if the following would be censured by the Mods for addressing another poster... You should be totally commended for your tone and your tolerance in posting here and replying to people who may disagree with you. In not a single one of your posts do you attack or judge another poster, and you haven't tried to tell ANYONE how they should think or act. Although I vehemently abhor this AFA scam, and in that, probably disagree strongly with you, you almost make me wish that I had your tolerance....
posted on September 19, 2001 07:56:01 AM new
Greedbay - Thank you so VERY much for your words. I have always taken the mindset that these forums are for sharing ideas and information, not for judging others. Even when hurtful comments are made to me/about me, I feel that responding in the same manner serves no purpose but to escalate the situation. Not to mention that I think it would go against TOS here and in other places.
That being said, I feel justified when I'm attacked or feel attacked to defend myself.
Re: the AFA - while I am participating in a VERY small way in the AFA through a couple of listings I share many of the concerns that other posters in the many forums have. I think Ebay is not acting unlike almost all of the other major corporations who donate, yes, to help, but also for the PR opportunities - its good business to be charitable in times of crisis.
My attitude is that the #1 priority should be the donations - and some sellers have stated that the only way they CAN donate (because they are low on cash) is through the sale of inventory. And if they can sell a $10 item for $50 and thus make a $50 donation, they like that. And I say Kudos for them! I certainly don't like Billpoint only - since my main account is Paypal Preferred. But I do have a second selling account that I accept Billpoint on, so I'm running my auctions there. If I can take my inventory that isn't selling and use it for a good cause, I'll clean out inventory and make room for new stuff... and if feels good to help. I've been buying as well - free shipping IS an incentive.
My main concern is the affect on non-AFA auctions. When I list something that never sells on my main ID under AFA and get 2 bids in 24 hours.. that tells me something - that people are searching THOSE auctions over non-AFA auctions. I'm not one of the sellers who depend on Ebay for their main income, but I really fear for some sellers to are trying to make a living this way because its already been a slow selling season and potentially it'll just stay the same or get WORSE because buyers won't be there...
*coming down off my soapbox*
Thanks again Greedbay, the compliment really made my day after yesterday was kind of tough for me.
posted on September 19, 2001 08:09:17 AM new
I have no idea what my AW password is, it is saved on my computer, what would be your point? It appears that Damon's best friend is dead, so I think he could be cut a little slack. antiquealley, you are right, the same group are just waiting for Damon to come back so they can start their ant-Paypal propaganda again.
posted on September 19, 2001 08:51:59 AM new
Not everyone uses their dog's name as their passwords. Some people actually use a string of numbers and letters that are pretty hard to remember when not used daily.
posted on September 19, 2001 01:35:05 PM new
Looking at my little black book, we have more than 25 different passwords for various web sites, message boards, PP, ebay, Bidville, Sellyouritem, AuctionAddict, Google, BayPal..............and no two are the same!
posted on September 19, 2001 08:09:43 PM new
Well, folks, if eBay's answer to PayPal's offer was no, then we really know what their true motivation is.
That is really sad. Charity should come from the heart. You should expect nothing in return from it.
posted on September 20, 2001 06:22:10 AM newWhy should the AFA seller be required to sign up for Billpoint?
As I understand the program, the seller and buyer really have no contact after the sale. The buyer pays via BillPoint to an account specifically for the AFA & the seller gets the shipping information once the buyer pays.
I can understand why it's set up this way, then BillPoint has the funds directly from the buyer to donate.
Unfortunately, there isn't an easy way for the seller to accept other payment methods w/o it being an administrative nightmare trying to keep track of buyers/sellers who participate & make sure the funds are transmitted to the fund.
This seems the simplest way w/the least administrative cost. Everyone pays into one fund from which the donation will be made.
posted on September 20, 2001 06:42:03 AM new
Eventer said-
<<<Unfortunately, there isn't an easy way for the seller to accept other payment methods w/o it being an administrative nightmare trying to keep track of buyers/sellers who participate & make sure the funds are transmitted to the fund.
This seems the simplest way w/the least administrative cost. Everyone pays into one fund from which the donation will be made. >>>
Are you aware that eBay had already set up TWO systems for cash donations that go DIRECTLY (not through Billpoint) to the charities involved via credit card? One on site, and another one in the 6-member internet coalition for charity that they have with Cisco, Microsoft, Amazon, Yahoo, and AOL/Time Warner. Do either of these sites demand that cash donated go through Billpoint? NOPE. So, there was a system already in place to process these payments, and send them DIRECTLY without eBay/Billpoint being the middle man to the 911 fund, etc. Why do you think eBay ADDED another layer of unnecessary processing and beauraucracy by making its sellers sign up for Billpoint and its buyers pay through Billpoint?
posted on September 20, 2001 06:58:54 AM newWhy do you think eBay ADDED another layer of unnecessary processing and beauraucracy by making its sellers sign up for Billpoint and its buyers pay through Billpoint?
Apples and oranges. They involve cash donations not purchases for auction merchandise.
posted on September 20, 2001 07:40:46 AM new
I agree with another poster above, that eBay has to take responsibility and BillPoint is the obvious choice. Also, I agree that AFA is a way to allow sellers to donate who otherwise would not have been able to.
Unfortunately, I know eBay too well. This tragedy is a PR wet dream for eBay. Like it or not, whether by choice or accident, that is the way it is. I imagine this came out of a brainstorming session. Someone came up with a good idea, and as they rolled it around, more thoughts came up like "Hey, what a great way to boost the Billpoint numbers and get some free publicity." And "here's a great chance for us to cook some more numbers."
Also, I do notice that while eBay is organizing the fund raising, it is the sellers, NOT eBay and not the buyers, who are doing the donating. Sellers who are participating in the program deserve a pat on the back and probably a lot more.
posted on September 20, 2001 07:52:57 AM new
Eventer said-
<<<Why do you think eBay ADDED another layer of unnecessary processing and beauraucracy by making its sellers sign up for Billpoint and its buyers pay through Billpoint?
Apples and oranges. They involve cash donations not purchases for auction merchandise.>>>
That's great, does that irrelevant assertion mean that you don't know what the answer is???? VISA America, Mastercard, etc., etc.,
handle BOTH cash donations AND purchases for auction items. Explain to me HOW it's apples and oranges when all the money collected goes into a specially-designated VISA/MC account set up FOR the Charities which is going to the same place. Please be SPECIFIC about why the two would be apples and oranges. Or even if you're right about your fruit metaphor, why if it was so simple to set the 2 other accounts up in days, with the cooperation and blessing of VISA etc., that eBay could not have just set up a THIRD designated Credit Card account for the charities to be used exclusively for AFA payments for auction items, which is actually EXACTLY what they did, only they used Billpoint. Be SPECIFIC about that too.
Remember, VISA/MC etc. accept International payments, Billpoint DOESN'T. Most sellers already presumably have VISA/MCs/Debit cards, because they would have had to register with them. Many sellers aren't registered with Billpoint, and don't want to. EBAY KNOWS THIS. Even if you want to attribute the noblest of motives to ebay, setting this up with Billpoint would ENSURE that many people wouldn't participate, either the International users who CAN'T, or the sellers who WON'T. eBay KNEW this too when they set this travesty up, so, they set it up in a way that MINIMIZES AFA's effectiveness.
Many people make assertions. I do allll the time. I am prepared to back up ANYTHING I say with documentation, I don't just throw them out there and expect people to believe me.
[ edited by GreedBay on Sep 20, 2001 08:03 AM ]
posted on September 20, 2001 08:05:15 AM new
ebaY has set special mechanisms in place relating to the AFA payments, not only to direct the payments directly to their fund, but also to suppress fees normally assosciated with transaction. Requiring the seller to sign up to receive Billpoint payments (which they are most explicitly not receiving) seems an entirely gratuitous extra.
posted on September 20, 2001 08:06:52 AM newSellers who are participating in the program deserve a pat on the back and probably a lot more.
And in one form they are getting that recognition...their auctions (donation) is specially tagged, letting everyone know they are donating. Problem is, there are alot of very negative people who are bitc*ing about that too.
Not to be argumentative, but how does believing we should be giving recognition to the seller (in the form of a pat on the back) jibe with your previously made statement that according to the Jewish faith acts of charity should be done in secret? Wasn't that statement made to at least partially explain why you thought ebay was morally reprehensible in the way they started the A4A program (they were using it as PR). Or is it that only individuals who should be recognized and not major coporations? (I'm not being argumentative, just confused about your position)
posted on September 20, 2001 08:09:13 AM new, I don't just throw them out there and expect people to believe me
I obviously have one OPINION regarding AFA, you have another. As best I see, they are both, at this time, OPINIONS, not fact unless someone has something IN WRITING otherwise.
Earlier in this thread a poster complimented katyiana for not attacking people who's opinions differed from her own. Can that same courtesy to others who may differ a different OPINION as to AFA auctions?
posted on September 20, 2001 08:18:29 AM new
Here's the reply.
My post had ZERO to do with my opinion about AFA, which I obviously abhor, it had to do SPECIFICALLY with eBay's use of Billpoint. I laid out MANY reasons why and how eBay didn't have to use Billpoint, but chose to anyway. They weren't making it easier, they were making it harder with more than one mechanism already in place. They were making it exclusionary, and they knew it... You said they did because of ease etc. I made points; your answer to them was "it's apples and oranges." If you think that it's a personal attack for someone to say to someone else that the answer "it's apples and oranges" is actually no answer at all, I'm sorry you took it that way, but it's TRUE. It ain't no answer, and my post was in no way intended to be an attack. Honest Injun. What I did is ask you to tell me specifically WHY it's apples and oranges. Will you?
posted on September 20, 2001 08:21:12 AM newWithout direct control, ebay CANNOT guarantee that the funds go to the charities. IF funds are collected and NOT sent to the charities designated then ebay can be criminally charged with conducting a swindle. Ebay HAS to have control of a charity drive to ensure there are no improprieties. they would have NO control over the funds collected through paypal.
I would guess that eBay has no control over the funds collected through MC and Visa by Disney either, yet that hasn't stopped them from running A4A auctions.
