posted on December 11, 2000 11:53:45 AM new
I've never met a fellow veteran who would not willingly share tales of his/her military experience.
The image of the stoic, withdrawn combat veteran, unwilling to talk about the war, lost in painful reverie, seems more of an overly dramatic civilian notion than a reality.
I can understand a veteran not wishing to candidly discuss the subject with those who "just don't get it".
posted on December 11, 2000 12:45:11 PM new
(Off topic to NeartheSea: Trust me, if you ask KRS a question about SgtMike or SgtMike a question about KRS, you're unlikely to get an unbiased asnwer! )
posted on December 11, 2000 01:05:47 PM new
My Father served in the Signal Corps in New Guinea during WW II. It was still considered a combat zone for all of 5 days after he arrived there. He is not adverse to talking about his military experiences although he doesn't make a point of it.
My Uncle served in the Artillery for the entire war. Landed on D Day (not in the first assault) and was at the bridgehead over the Rhine as the first troops made their way across. He rarely spoke about his combat experiences. About all I remember him ever mentioning is how he came to enlist before the war (he thought polo was the cat's meow and wanted to be on the Army polo team!) and seeing an Me-209 overhead at the bridgehead. He refused an interview about his experiences on D Day.
I also worked with a fellow who was a rifleman in Vietnam. He was also very reticent about discussing his experiences.
I think that combat veterans, for the most part, are not able to effectively relate their experiences to those who haven't shared at least some part of those experiences.
I raced bicycles in my younger days and I know that I had the same inability to tell someone who never raced just what it was really like.
posted on December 11, 2000 01:35:27 PM new
fred - Thanks for your blessing and you have my prayers that you and your son will continue to build a bond that transcends father and son. I view my father as a confidant, advisor, and constant reminder that I have at least one friend on this planet. Trust me we have had our disputes and have been on opposite sides of many debates. But through it all we search for that common ground were we can engage in a dialogue.
Besides although the products of different generations. We both share a lot of similarites. Since we are talking about military exploits I will stick with those.
DAD - Career Soldier, 1958 - 1979, served in the Airborne, Infantry, and Special Forces. First duty Station, 1958 8th Infantry Division, Mainz,FRG, Stationed at Ft. Campbell in the 502nd, Stationed at Ft. Bragg, retired from Ft. Campbell 1979. Military Awards include 1 - Legion of Merit , 2 - Silver Stars, 3 - Bronze Stars, 5 - Meritorious Service Medals, 12 - Army Commendation Medals, 24 - Army Acheivement Medals, 7 - Good Conduct Medals, Expert Infantrymans Badge, Combat Infantrymans Badge, Airborne Wings, Pathfinder Wings Air Assault Wings, Special Forces Tab, Ranger Tab, 3 Combat tours of Vietnam.
ME - 16 years total service still counting (9 Active, 7 Reserves), First Duty Station Mainz, FRG 8th Infantry Division (Mechanized), Stationed at Ft. Campbell in the 502nd, Stationed at Ft. Bragg, left active duty from Ft. Benning,GA . My trival exploits include 1 - Soldiers Medal, 1 - Legion of Merit, 2 - Silver Stars, 4 - Meritorious Service Medals, 5 - Army Commendation Medals, 8 - Army Acheivement Medals, 5 - Good Conduct Medals, Airborne Wings, Air Assault Wings, Expert Infantrymans Badge, Combat Infantryman's Badge (2 Awards), Ranger Tab, combat duty in Panama Invasion and Gulf War.
We also both have served under General Colin Powell dad during Vietnam and me on his staff at V Corps in Frankfurt, back when he was a lonely three star.
posted on December 11, 2000 02:33:02 PM new
Actually KRS the sequence wasn't exactly identical except Mainz. I just listed the major units we shared. We both started at Lee Barracks in Mainz, FRG. When he was there it was Airborne Brigade, 8th Infantry Division. When I was there it was 1st Brigade, 8th Infantry Division. He jumped out of planes, I rode around in Armored Personnel Carriers.
Funny thing though when he visted me in 1985. According to him the place hadn't changed one bit in 30 years. My duty includes 1 year in Korea between Campbell and Bragg. And a return to Germany, VII Corps to be exact, before Benning, then off to be a civilian. I stay in the reserves because of the sense of comradeship that you have with your fellow service members. And the pension is just an added bonus.
posted on December 11, 2000 04:32:56 PM new"Me thinks someone does protest too much."
When a person purposely and inaccurately interprets something said and then concludes the message he or she corrupted was intended for him or her, I have to conclude low self-esteem or guilt, or both, is/are the cause.
The wrong is compounded when the perpetrator then begins to specifically denounce and ridicule the messenger based on his or her gross misinterpretation. Such distortion is exacerbated when the same party then begins to ridicule others that are not aware of what is being said about them, because they are not on the Internet.
Fortunately, or unfortunately, depending how one judges it, a certain person has a common caustic personality pattern that always manifests in certain circumstances. Said knowledge allowed me to quickly stop scratching my head and uttering 'Huh' regarding the derogatory follow-up statements, and allowed me to immediately determine when and how the distortion occurred.
Briefly, I said that my brothers are early era Vietnam vets (1965 to 1966 and 1966 to 1967) and do not watch war movies, but did watch a recent WW2 era film because of the documentary nature and that such aversions are typical with many vets.
I commented on the statement; that because the veteran hospitals have war movies in their library does not mean all vets in the veteran hospitals watch them.
I said, "unaffected" meaning not all combat vets are negatively affected or affected the same way by their experiences though their experiences may have been harrowing and gruesome.
I said, "wannabe's" because there are those who do believe that combat and other life-threatening professions are heroic and feel they missed out so they engage in fraud.
I said, "ear infection" because all veterans do not have to have been in combat to receive treatment at a veteran hospital.
I do not have to provide a personal military history because I have never presented any claims or stories beyond having served. My background and my exploits were not put on display therefore I have no obligation to confirm or deny. I do not have a problem with someone listing and describing their accomplishments and experiences when it is done as matter of pride or matter of fact. I do have a problem with those that use or misuse their accomplishments, especially when they do so in a blowhard manner, to rub it in the face of others, or commit discrepancies that indicates a probability of fraud.
As for the accusation that my brothers never served in Vietnam,
" I doubt that you have any brothers who were ever in Vietnam. But if you do, the reason they don't speak of it is probably because they are afraid to let anybody know how ashamed they are of themselves. Afraid to let anyone know anything about their emotional reactions to it, afraid to be associated as losers by the people of this country, and without the balls to stand up and say "NO! I am not ashamed and I won't accept that characterization anymore". But most of all they're probably afraid of losing their little brother's hero worship".
I'll pass it on to them. Of course I won't be able to post what I know their reply will be. Especially, the brother who has been fighting to survive for the last 22 months due to CGL (leukemia) which he suspects is Agent Orange related but cannot prove it.
Some people should stay with rewriting and presenting as their own inspiration(s) what they plagiarize, because when they attempt to go it on their own, they reveal their true self and their true abilities.
posted on December 11, 2000 05:44:29 PM new..."the brother who has been fighting to survive for the last 22 months due to CGL (leukemia) which he suspects is Agent Orange related but cannot prove it".
Oh? And how do you know of this suspicion? Don't tell me that this possibly mythical brother can talk? And does? And does ABOUT VIETNAM? Doesn't that fly in the face of every meager accusation that you've made about me? Of cours it does. Not only does it do that but it gives lie to so many of the previous statements to the contrary.
Without further attention to your nonsense, Mikey, (See? I don't resort to underhanded and smarmy ploys like referring to a person as "some people" when it is clear to every single poster who could stomach your sickening and perverse diatribes in the previous threads on the subject exactly whom you mean to talk about) which reminds me of the disgusting and cowardly bleating of the about to be executed deposed ruler of Romania (?) in 1989, are you aware that certain luekemias have been accepted as service connected by exposure to Dioxin which is the troublesome element of that defoilant called "Agent Orange" and that your brother can be tested and given a free complete physical examination at any VA Health facility hospital which will place him on the "Agent Orange Register" maintained to track and the effects of and provide medical assistance to veterans who suffer from it's effects? They have databases with exact use of the stuff by volume, dates, and in country area. Get out the phone book if you don't and force, if you have to, your brother to be tested. A quick search using "agent orange" will give a list of acknowledged health probems, another using "Department of Veteran's Affairss" will let you know where the facilities are in your state. Contrary to popular belief the VA health care system is ranked with the best in the world, and what is not available directly is contracted for but not denied to eligible vets. Get him tested for Hepatitus 'C' also. The current new case rate amongst Vietnam vets is being called epidemic.
For everyone who knows or is related to one of us: the VA has just (Nov. 9) allowed in law that diabetes will be considered to have been caused by exposure to dioxin. All that has to be done is to make claim and show that the veteran was in the places at the time that the stuff was used.
posted on December 11, 2000 05:57:56 PM new
Here's another important message;
[b]If you were stationed at Camp Lejeune between the years 1968 and 1985 or know someone who was, NCOA suggests you read the following text from the Commandant, Marine Corps Message 150130Z AUG 00.
“This message is for Marines, Sailors, and their families who lived aboard Marine Corps Base (MCB) Camp Lejeune between 1968 and 1985.
A Public Health Service Agency, the Agency for Toxic Substances & Disease Registry (ATSDR), is conducting a health survey about children who were born or conceived while their families lived in base housing at MCB Camp Lejeune anytime between 1968 and 1985. The Marine Corps is fully supporting the ATSDR in their efforts. The health survey focuses on compounds which are often used in dry cleaning or degreasers that may have existed in the MCB Camp Lejeune water distribution system between 1968 and 1985. All wells that were found to contain these substances were closed in 1985. The health survey attempts to gather data for use in a scientific research study about the effects that these substances may have on children when exposed before birth. This survey will hopefully enhance understanding about the effects of exposure of these substances on children. If you or someone you know was pregnant and lived aboard MCB Camp Lejeune between 1968 and 1985, you are encouraged to participate in this survey whether or not your child has exhibited any adverse health symptoms. To participate, call the National Opinion Research Center (NORC) at (800) 639-4270. NORC is conducting the survey on behalf of the ATSDR.
If you would like more information about the survey, call ATSDR at (888) 42ATSDR, extension 5132.
The Headquarters Marine Corps’ point of contact for this issue is Ms. Kelly Dreyer. She can be reached at (703) 695-8302.
The Department of the Navy’s liaison to ATSDR is Ms. Andrea Lunsford at (757) 462-5554.
Additional information can be found on the Internet at the MCB Camp Lejeune web page: http://www.lejeune.usmc.mil/water/watersurvey.htm
)
