posted on October 12, 2001 08:34:12 AM new
I just read on an ebay board that starting in Nov, there will be no more credit card incoming payments allowed for Personal accounts, only business accounts. Apparently non-credit card payments will be OK. There goes the $100/month limit idea. I was finessing that pretty well for the past several months, it gave me wiggle room for people who ignored my request for non-credit card payments. Oh well...
I think we are going to start and see belt tightening on the part of Paypal in many areas, as they have recently filed FTC papers to bring the company to an initial public offering on the Nasdaq.
The company needs to start operating a bit more efficently in order to cut losses down and move towards profitability. The better financial position they are in prior to their offering, the more successful their stock will do in the market, when introduced.
I suspect that there will soon be a plan implemented to turn some of their many free individual accounts into paying business accounts. I know they are already doing this, but expect the pressure to be picked up in this effort. They need to turn as many of their 10 million customers into paying accounts as soon as they can.
The stock is in an interesting position and it will be fun to watch how the hand unfolds. Paypal is the most used payment facilitator for online auction users and has a large customer base to derrive revenue from. However, like many other online ventures, they are losing money and they need to find a way to turn things around. They also have eBay's Billpoin nipping at their heels and there's no telling how this scenerio is going to play out. I guess we'll just have to sit back and watch how things play out.
posted on October 12, 2001 08:58:05 AM new
I guess it is time for another PayPal bashing campaign. Oh well, I have been finessing my $100 limit pretty well.
posted on October 12, 2001 09:15:34 AM new
not surprising ,no more sugar daddy,no more free lunch.
cost of doing business on the net is rising,no one works for free,does any of us work for free??
some of us sellers will drop out,margin squeeze.
interest expnese on merchandise bot on credit,ebay fees add up too.
paypal is offering 1 1/2 % cash rebate on debit card,so if you have one,use it to offset some of that paypal fees.
posted on October 12, 2001 09:37:03 AM new
Not a surprise. I imagine many sellers with business or premier accounts were a bit tired of having to subsidize those using the personal accounts to accept credit card payments.
From PayPal's site:
To reduce the costs associated with credit card processing, the ability to receive credit card funded payments will become a feature reserved for Premier and Business accounts. Personal Accounts that receive credit card funded payments after 11/06/2001 may accept the payment by upgrading to a Premier or Business account, or they will have to deny the payment. Personal accounts will continue to be able to receive non-credit card funded payments for free. Once upgraded, Premier and Business Accounts may receive unlimited credit card funded payments.
posted on October 12, 2001 09:37:16 AM new
It's tricky for us sellers, as we need services like Paypal to make money so they stick around. I value the service, along with several others, and would like to see them to do well and continue to be available for us. Lack of options is a bad thing and with the difficult business environment, players are dropping out of the game at an alarming rate.
Could you imagine a scenerio where eBay's auction website, its Billpoint payment service and its auction management software are are only options? Scary isn't it? We'd truly be working for the "Man" (or women in Meg's case) if this were to happen. Conpetition is the name of the game and I personally would be willing to pay a bit higher price for services if it allows competition in the game to keep checks and balances in the equation.
posted on October 12, 2001 09:47:48 AM new
It's inevitable, paypal will implement a $5 fee for personal accounts that have a balance under an X amount. Not a bad deal still.
posted on October 12, 2001 09:49:01 AM newCould you imagine a scenerio where eBay's auction website, its Billpoint payment service and its auction management software are are only options?
posted on October 12, 2001 10:11:30 AM new
they chrge a fee if you want a check sent to you,wonder when they are going to charge if you want money wired to your bank account??
i see more sellers moving to epier and bidville.
posted on October 12, 2001 10:20:14 AM new
The only thing I wish PayPal would do is NOT charge ANY member for instant transfers or non-credit card related payments to other members.
Now that there is no credit card processing for Personal members and they can have unlimited non-credit card transfers - doesn't it only make sense that no member should have to pay fees for this kind of transfer/payment.
I fully understand having to pay fees to accept credit cards but how many fees are really associated with bank funding or PayPal balance transfers sitting in members accounts and moving from one account to another?
posted on October 12, 2001 10:30:42 AM new
anggelline-
if there is no fee,then fee paying members will be subsidising the others,there are costs invloved in maintinag a complex system like paypal,it is not just cc fee,it is paypal rent,payroll,benefits,utilities etc which have to get paid.
GET THE WORD FREE OUT of your head,costs will keep rising until it is feasible for these providers to stay in busienss.
e commerce is shaping UP like real business,if revenue cannot offset expenses,then the business will go BELLY UP.
IT APPLIES TO ALL OF US.
posted on October 12, 2001 10:31:58 AM new
This really bites! My international sales will go out the window. But I cannot afford to upgrade and pay roughly 10% of my average transaction to Paypal.
Regarding them charging the same fee for all transaction types, bank and balance transfers are where they are getting most of their gross profit from I would wager. I bet the transaction fees are only slightly above the actual credit card processing cost. Still suck though.
-----------------------
Tanya
I live in my own little world, but it's ok, they know me here.
posted on October 12, 2001 10:35:24 AM new
I think for now I'll maintain the status quo, since for months I've been saying "non-credit card only". The $100 was a nice cushion, but as long as they allow us to deny a payment that uses a credit card [rather than confiscating our balances] I think I can keep on the usual way.
I can certainly understand why a business account seller paying fees all the time would prefer that Personal account members not get a free ride. It's hard to know how much business we lose, though, by not allowing unlimited PayPal use. For now, I honestly do not want to get into the game of paying fees to subsidize my buyer's payment choice. That may be a terrible business decision but since I sell low-price items, the fees would add up.
I just don't know these days. I am having trouble even understanding Checkout, let alone what the half.com merger will look like. Now I have to possibly re-think the whole credit card payment situation. I probably will end up shifting more business to Amazon because it's a lot simpler, including getting paid.
posted on October 12, 2001 11:06:03 AM new
Well I think I'm finally seeing the light! I upgraded to a premiere account over six months ago when my balances were reaching over a hundred dollars. Then it seemed like the smart thing to do.
After evaluating my incoming payments for the last month I now realize it was a stupid move!
So only the c.c. funds count in that $100.00 limit, huh? The items that were paid for by c.c. were unique/rare and not available anywhere else on ebey. I suppose those winning bidders would've pd. by alternative methods if required.
The only thing I really like about the business account is having the debit/mastercard which allows me to access the funds immediately so that I can pay the shipping.
I think I'll just cancel my paypal business account and maybe open a personal account for my bidding.
posted on October 12, 2001 11:14:35 AM new
If Paypal expects more money out of a lot of its members, they'd better improve their customer service. A LOT.
posted on October 12, 2001 11:45:16 AM new
What I'd do is keep the business account for those who HAVE to use CC and have a personal account for all other forms of payment to run through without fees.
posted on October 12, 2001 01:11:40 PM new
When I downgraded from a Business account to a Personal account, PayPal told me I could NEVER upgrade again. No problem, keeping my Personal account is fine with me. I state in my auctions that PayPal is for e-checks or PP funds only. The $100 cushion was for the non-reading bidders. Now, they will simply get rejected and have to do it the way I asked in the first place.
I have three other options for credit cards: Billpoint, BidPay, and c2it. Four, if I decide to add Yahoo!Direct. I'm still debating that one. Plus, I take personal checks and money orders. If asked, I'd seriously consider valid Taco Bell gift certificates, store credit at Wal-Mart, or pretty, shiny beads.
So, while I wish PP well in their future endeavors, I don't need them at the current prices.
posted on October 12, 2001 01:17:25 PM new
katiyana - that's an interesting idea. I could upgrade my husband's account. He never uses it so we've treated it as a backup when I used up the allowance on my account. There's no way anyone could just use it without my permission since it's not my email address.
posted on October 12, 2001 01:17:52 PM new
katiyana - that's an interesting idea. I could upgrade my husband's account. He never uses it so we've treated it as a backup when I used up the allowance on my account. There's no way anyone could just use it without my permission since it's not my email address.
posted on October 12, 2001 01:39:16 PM new
We regard credit card processing, in all forms, as a necessary evil. A cost of doing business. If the 3-4% ever is in a position to hurt us, we'll have already turned ourselves towards another business.
posted on October 12, 2001 01:55:47 PM new
Isn't it nice to see how many people are getting a free ride off of the backs of us who know damn good and well we are a business and pay the fees as we should?
One of you posted Paypal would cost you 10% in what world are you living in? It certainly could not be mine, because I have never paid that much of a fee.
You want the convience of Paypal, but you want it free. Obviously is has not donned on some of you that all of this costs Paypal. I suppose you would rather see them go under than pay what you rightfully should? I never understood the big deal when they started charging. You are not on ebay etc. to give stuff away and lose money, why should they be? Who cares about all of that "always free" stuff. Businesses evolve and change. You show me a company that has not changed its business practices in order to keep from going under or make a profit.
I have no respect at all for those who try to circumvent the system to get a free ride.
posted on October 12, 2001 02:02:39 PM new
Hi misscandle,
When I downgraded from a Business account to a Personal account, PayPal told me I could NEVER upgrade again. No problem, keeping my Personal account is fine with me. I state in my auctions that PayPal is for e-checks or PP funds only. The $100 cushion was for the non-reading bidders. Now, they will simply get rejected and have to do it the way I asked in the first place.
*** I was concerned about the above statement, as it is not correct---Users can downgrade from a Business/Premier account once, but there would be no issue if the user upgraded again***
I am sorry if you received incorrect information on this.
posted on October 12, 2001 02:06:26 PM new
In answer to "hcross", I can only see one situation when fees would be 10%. I sell items that are less than $10. I can imagine that the fixed $.30 (?) plus % of sales could be 10% if your item is less than $5 or so.
I am not saying Personal Accounts should freeride, just point this out in case you were wondering. It is really a bad deal for people who sell lower priced items.
Anyhow, I like Paypal but never upgraded because I sell items that are less than $20. I signed up for Billpoint for AFA so maybe I can look into using them for now. Their fees for the lower priced items are less that Paypal, I think.
posted on October 12, 2001 02:06:27 PM new
If I am getting a free ride on the backs of you "real" sellers, it is because PayPal set it up that way. I did not write (or re-write) their policies. I feel no guilt.
PPD: Thank you. I was either misinformed or was informed correctly for the timeframe involved.
posted on October 12, 2001 02:06:52 PM new
Gruff and to the point. The free ride days are long gone.
It takes money to make money. It's the way business works, regardless of the particular business you are in. A smart business person factors the cost of services like Paypal into the products they sell, whether they sell via auction or otherwise. If your business model does not allow for a 2-4% Paypal fee or other legitimate operational businss expense, your in the wrong business or your not in business at all.
Perhaps eBay should offer a business 101 tutorial to its users.
