posted on October 12, 2001 02:07:46 PM new
Edited because double posts seem to be the thing these days. What's up with that?
[ edited by misscandle on Oct 12, 2001 02:11 PM ]
posted on October 12, 2001 02:10:54 PM new
Hi misscandle,
Thanks. I am so sorry that you were not informed correctly.
As a reminder to users, users can effectively cut their rates by going PayPal Preferred. This can help offset the fees users have when accepting payments. I would also keep in mind that Premier/Business accounts can have chargeback protection (for claims of non-delivery/fraudulent credit card usage) through the Seller Protection Program...this is not extended to personal accounts.
posted on October 12, 2001 02:14:34 PM new
If I have a personal paypal account can I start charging $1 to accept a cash transfer? I may just decide to like paypal after all.
But, I may not be a paypal booster,
dendude
posted on October 12, 2001 02:39:56 PM new
why the hostile tone? I think we are all able to judge for ourselves what business expenses make sense. Some of us do sell mostly lower-priced items and/or have slimmer profit margins. Or simply smaller businesses. No need to kick us out of the exclusive club.
We pay our ebay fees, Channelfusion fees, Amazon fees, income taxes, etc etc. If there are ways to minimize fees and expenses while abiding by rules at, say, PayPal, how does that hurt you? As far as I can tell, by nudging our customers towards non-credit card payments, we are doing PayPal a favor because they clearly prefer those over credit cards.
posted on October 12, 2001 02:40:30 PM new
why the hostile tone? I think we are all able to judge for ourselves what business expenses make sense. Some of us do sell mostly lower-priced items and/or have slimmer profit margins. Or simply smaller businesses. No need to kick us out of the exclusive club.
We pay our ebay fees, Channelfusion fees, Amazon fees, income taxes, etc etc. If there are ways to minimize fees and expenses while abiding by rules at, say, PayPal, how does that hurt you? As far as I can tell, by nudging our customers towards non-credit card payments, we are doing PayPal a favor because they clearly prefer those over credit cards.
posted on October 12, 2001 02:52:46 PM new
Let me repost my question in case SOME people didn't understand it.
Why am I(as a Premier member) having to pay a fee on instant transfers/e-checks when Personal Members are NOT?
It's altogether possible that Personal Members are processing more payments per month than I am and paying NO FEES -simply because they block credit card payments?
Is this really a stupid question?
As for the wonderful chargeback protection - I am currently involved in a situation with a buyer who DID receive his package but his credit card stopped the charges from PayPal. I got a chargeback on my account because I couldn't prove delivery(myself) although the buyer has emailed Damon and PayPal several times and told him/them he DID indeed receive the package - there was a problem with his credit card company NOT my service. So of course I got stiffed for the fee and the cost of the item because PayPal can't understand what's going on - But again, this is a different issue! Chargeback protection hasn't done squat for me.
posted on October 12, 2001 03:04:27 PM new
I have seen you post here and I have seen your auctions, you run a lot of them do not tell me you are not a business, you are. Paypal made it very clear when they started this that if you were a business you needed a business or premier account. Hostile? Why not? You are getting yourself a nice little free ride here. I see your rationale though, you think you are costing Paypal nothing for your little personal account, whatever. I guess they don't have employees and overhead to worry about.
posted on October 12, 2001 03:09:48 PM new
Agreed on the hostile tone, esp. since I was the one who posted the 10% of my sales comment. For a $5.00 Paypal payment (my average), I would pay 45 cents (9%).
I sell low-dollar trading cards, because I enjoy them and I am making spending cash not a living at it. Paypal made the personal account available with certain limits, which I have so far been able to stay within. Not being able to take credit cards through Paypal will pretty well disrupt my international sales as about 75% use Paypal and a CC.
I understand Paypal needs to become profitable, esp. once they become a publicly traded company. So I will gripe a bit, but it isn't going to destroy my world and I will continue to use my account within the new restrictions. Life goes on....
-----------------------
Tanya
I live in my own little world, but it's ok, they know me here.
posted on October 12, 2001 03:23:10 PM new
At PayPal's website they list the features of all the various accounts. For example:
"Core Features: Personal, Premier, and Business Accounts
Send Money
Send payments to anyone with an email address
Request Money
Request payments from anyone with an email address
[b] Auction Tools
Accept PayPal directly from your auction listings
Automatically invoice your winning bidders
Automatically remind bidders about your auctions [/b]
Money Market
Earn a rate of return on your PayPal account balance
$5 Referral Bonus
Earn $5 for each member you refer who completes the bonus requirements
International Payments
Send and receive payments with members in 36 countries
Virtual Debit Card
Pay anyone online using your PayPal account
Account Insurance
All accounts insured up to $10,000
Downloadable log
Download your account history into a spreadsheet or Quicken
Email-based customer service"
One of the Core Features of a Personal account is the ability to use it to accept payments for an auction. Thus, doing so is no violation of PayPal rules or ethics.
posted on October 12, 2001 03:39:12 PM new
Obviously I type WAY too slow. 3 new posts since I started my other one...
If Paypal really wants to get rid of us "freeloaders", they will eliminate personal accounts from receiving any money. How many folks really Paypal Aunt Martha for her birthday? LOL
Paypal is convenient. I get money quickly that I can turn around and spend quickly, or just let it sit there and gather dust. I will pay for that convenience if I have to, much like buying milk at a Qwikie Mart because the grocery stores aren't open at 3am. But at this time, the Safeway down the street is open and a whole lot cheaper.
-----------------------
Tanya
I live in my own little world, but it's ok, they know me here.
posted on October 12, 2001 03:40:14 PM new
Computerboy
Experience is a relative term, I don't see any reason to insult people because they don't share your version of the world. I have over 15 years of experience and I'd qualify for your "business 101" crack. EVERYTHING I sell is under 10.00 and paypal is EXTREMELY expensive because of that. This doesn't make me an idiot or a bad business person, my circumstances are DIFFERENT than yours. We don't all sell high end computer parts. (thank God)
Everyone else:
Paypal's "problems" are relatively simple. If you have a B&M business with a merchant account you probably understand it. Paypal's best friend AND their worst nightmare are the same thing - EXPLODING VOLUME.
It is no coincidence that they keep raising fees on under 15.00 items. The higher $ transactions are cheaper for EVERYONE (processor, paypal, seller AND BUYER) to process. Quite simply, Paypal doesn't WANT under $20.00 transactions (I'd guess on the amount). Unfortunately as margins plummet in many categories, so does the total sales $. I'll bet the percentage of small $ paypal transactions is spiking and losses are piling up as a result. Keep in mind that M/C and VISA charge a TRANSACTION FEE for EVERY purchase. This fee and the exploding volume is why paypal had to start charging and lost money making ability on the "float". Don't misunderstand me - I'm just as pissed as I ever was that they LIED TO ME. Reality is STILL reality.
It is inevitable, as they exponentially grew, so did the problems and the expenses. They are now "culling" not profitable areas of the business, just like ebay, it will involve most of us "small guys" who built them.
Every thing that I sell is near $10.00 or under $10.00. Quite simply, Paypal doesn't NEED or WANT my business any longer (unless I can absorb an up to 40% fee for their service). Haven't wanted it for a LONG LONG TIME. Their "legal beagles" just figured out how to get rid of it and make it MY fault with the buyer (now I have to "reject" the payment or UPGRADE, instead of paypal informing the BUYER that they can't send a payment this way to a personal account...)
posted on October 12, 2001 05:03:26 PM new
I am not sure why certain posters feel offended if someone utilize the Paypal system to our best advantage. After all, the system started out as a completely free service. Paypal was the one to change the rules.
One is not circumventing the system with the free $100 cc. That is the system. Now the rules change again, so one has to adjust again. That is simply business.
It is amazing how many sellers is stuck on this "Paypal is neccessary in order to be successful" syndrome. If you sell a true collectible, Paypal is not going to do much for you in adding sales. If the collector wants it, they will bid. Why give away 3% of sale to someone else just for some convenience?
Maybe some sellers should revisit business 101 and understand not all business run the same and stop offending others.
posted on October 12, 2001 05:24:15 PM new
My post here is not intended to be argumentive or hostile or whatever, just to state a fact.
A great many of my sales are under $10.00 and I had no problem with upgrading to a business account. And I find that the credit card fees, whether through PayPal or Billpoint, are not that significant a part of my expenses.
posted on October 12, 2001 06:46:54 PM new
I dont see why people are treating paypal as the "victim". As I and many others understood they were to be "free" forever. I agree with commentarys post 100%. The only victim here is the people who were drawn in like a fish only to be pounded with fees. If you feel offended by sellers using the free account then you should have quit using paypal once the fees began. If I took online payments I would use paydirect, and for international I would use bidpay. And for the poster who said about the cost of business all corporations use the cheapest methods available.
posted on October 12, 2001 08:13:21 PM new
chum, my fees are negligible and hardly make a dent in my sales, pounded? that actually made me laugh. Perhaps those that cannot afford the fees are those who should quit.
Here we go again "free forever". I am not stuck on any mindset about Paypal, I am happy to have them and %90 of my buyers pay that way. I don't bid on auctions that don't accept Paypal and I know many, many others who won't either. That has got to make a difference somewhere down the line.
As for using a personal account when you know you are a business, did Paypal not say, if you are a business you need to upgrade? It is not me being dishonest here so I have no guilt.
posted on October 12, 2001 09:11:09 PM new
chum, my fees are negligible and hardly make a dent in my sales, pounded? that actually made me laugh. Perhaps those that cannot afford the fees are those who should quit.
Actually I think the ones who dont pay are the smart ones. While you were paying for the service other users were clever enough to use them for free. If your fees are so negligible then why are you whining so about other members using them for free? That doesnt make any sense to me.
Here we go again "free forever". I am not stuck on any mindset about Paypal, I am happy to have them and %90 of my buyers pay that way. I don't bid on auctions that don't accept Paypal and I know many, many others who won't either. That has got to make a difference somewhere down the line.
Well you must admit that it was wrong for paypal to say "free forever" when its main purpose was to reel in sellers so they could charge them. I will give yahoo credit they have in the paydirect terms that fees may come in the future. Its funny that you dont bid if seller doesnt take paypal because I am the complete opposite. I will not pay the higher handling fees that paypal sellers charge. I have seen differences from $1.00 to $2.50 higher in paypal sellers auctions.
As for using a personal account when you know you are a business, did Paypal not say, if you are a business you need to upgrade? It is not me being dishonest here so I have no guilt.
Of course your not guilty of anything. The dishonest party here is paypal. If they would have kept their promises we would not be talking about this, and if paypal doesnt follow their own rules should they expect others to do so?
posted on October 12, 2001 09:18:58 PM new
Well most of my PayPal seems to be from funds anyway. I downgraded my account a while back. Since I am getting more bidders using Billpoint or conventional payment this should not be a hassle.
PayPal has been notorious for doing this stuff. If I didn't use it as a buyer, I would ditch it in a minute. I might anyway, but I like to accommodate the few customers who still want it.
posted on October 12, 2001 10:54:58 PM new
In your scenario clever=dishonest. Your smarter because your dishonest? Okay, if it makes you feel good to think that way, more power to you. I have a merchant account with Paypal, plus the cashback I get from my debit card. That makes my total Paypal fees a little more than 1%. Perhaps if I spent my days trying to figure out a way to get out of paying my fair share, I would be as "smart" as you. But, I just don't have time for that.
Free forever? I didn't ever think it would stay that, if you would notice one of my previous posts you would see that I said that businesses much evolve and do what they need to do to stay afloat. If that means fees, that is fine. I was using CCNOW and paying 9% and looking at mechant accounts when Paypal came along. If they go higher than what a merchant account would cost me, I would certainly switch.
posted on October 13, 2001 06:06:58 AM newI will not pay the higher handling fees that paypal sellers charge. I have seen differences from $1.00 to $2.50 higher in paypal sellers auctions.
I think you forgot to insert the word some in the above sentence. I, for one, do not charge higher handling fees just because I accept PayPal.
