posted on January 15, 2002 12:11:08 PM
Some of you folks miss the point about the shipping charge.
I knew going in that the shipping was $10, that is not a problem.
But for $10 a buyer could expect the item to be shipped First Class, or Priority , and insured.
If the seller stated that for $10, the item is sent Media rate and uninsured, then the buyer can make an informed choice.
Some items it is obvious. But $10 for a large book shipped First Class insured, or Priority insured is not outrageous. For uninsured media rate, it is outrageous.
posted on January 15, 2002 12:54:25 PM
"We should not concern ourselves with extremist if they leave ebay, whether it be a seller or buyer. All the better for the rest of us. They are costly to please"
You are making an important assumption in your statement...that these are "extremists" (and presumably few in number) and that they are costly to please, such that we should be glad if they leave ebay. Of course, you really haven't proven this assumption at all.
I don't know how many people this applies to, but I wouldn't use the word "extremist" to apply to them. when you get burned by someone, you do tend to take your business elsewhere. And many people do tend to think of ebay as a single business: "I got a great deal on ebay" (not "I got a great deal from captain-kirk on ebay" ). So when they have to tell their spouse that they got burned on ebay, they will be much more reluctant to buy again, lest they have to suffer the humiliation of explaining that, once again, they got burned.
"once burned, twice shy" was invented long before ebay.
And as far as them being "costly to please", you'll really have to justify that assertion. We're talking about someone (in this example) who got charged 3X the shipping cost. How is this person "costly to please"?
But at least you are now admitting that this kind of behavior does, in fact, occur.
[ edited by captainkirk on Jan 15, 2002 12:56 PM ]
posted on January 15, 2002 03:40:32 PM
Thanks to you people, we got my shipping charges reduced from $35.05 to $5.00. She didn't want to "combine auctions" but wanted to ship everything in one box. Emailed seller several times with url of this forum of my "help request". Another buyer (who I contacted to see what shipping she was given) paid total after asking several times to have her 6 auctions combined (was shipped in one box but charged for seperate shipping). After she saw our outcome she wrote seller and said she hasn't left feedback yet and feels she was cheated (box cost $3.95 to ship and was charged $12.60) Now seller agres to send refund check. Same seller has neturals now because she refused to combine shipping from a buyer. We are just asking for FAIR & HONEST. We added $10.00 ($1.00 for each auction) but never heard a word from seller or feedback.
I say send this url to your seller and let them the word is being spread. I know we can't mention names but I am sure you people know ways to weed out greedy sellers. I understand a handling fee is necessary for some sellers but get real! Putting a book in a box and charge $6.00 handling? Isn't that close to minimum wage for an hours work?
posted on January 15, 2002 05:49:45 PM
Along these same lines- I just had another seller that "missed" my Paypal payment and didn't ship the item (it has been 2 weeks).
When she realized her mistake, she said she would ship Priority to make up for it.
Now this seller originally was going to ship the book media rate and charged me $2 shipping - she would have actually lost money on the deal because this was a $2.50 paperback and the transaction was $4.50 total.
I replied that she should not ship Priority, Media rate was fine, and I would leave positive FB when the book was received.
If it had been the $10 shipping seller, I would have demanded Overnight shipping or I would have done a chargeback at Paypal - if I had known ahead of time that the $10 was for Media Rate.
posted on January 15, 2002 07:55:20 PM
I guess I am a moron. Sometimes I ship things out in good faith in anticipation that I'll receive payment. Haven't been screwed yet, but then I may not be doing the volume some of y'all are. I know my local PO, in a multicultural district, takes umbrage with that people use their Priority boxes, turn them inside out and then ship to 3rd world countries etc. I don't turn my re-used boxes inside out; I just slap on other labels. Maybe other cities/towns don't hold the box police. To disallow recycled boxes is a crime against the environment...
posted on January 15, 2002 09:31:32 PM
I am really stating my opinion that these are extremest who leave ebay over one incident. I thnk it is reasonable to call someone an extremest who is once burned, yet leaves ebay, especially from my personal experience buying on ebay I have a 99.9% personal satisfaction.
Extremest tend to be very small in number. The exception is when extreme behavior is the norm. If buyers leaving ebay because of one faulty incident is the norm, then ebay would nearly vanish over night. I don't see that happening.
I said extremest are costly to please. I did not refer to the person who was charged 3x shipping as an extremest. I referred to people leaving ebay because of one incident are the coistly type to please. I gave an incident of mine as an example. Making a refund to make a continuously unpleasant person satisfied runs up sellers expenses. Any business that has great customer service also has high expenses associated with it. It's not cheap.
posted on January 15, 2002 10:14:20 PM
Quick, I agree that there are some buyers out there that can not be pleased, and some that would bankrupt you if you let them.
BUT, when someone gets screwed on an eBay transaction, they associate it with buying at online auctions, and all the drawbacks of online auctions are brought to the forground.
If the sellers on the early eBay had been shady and cheated on shipping and did not send goods, eBay would have been doomed. The site grew, and still does by word of mouth. People do not associate sellers on eBay as individuals, they are all just eBay. I am guilty of it myself, I never tell anyone I bought an item from seller x, the first words out of my mouth are "I bought it at/on eBay.
If the first sellers on eBay were a bunch of sharp dealers the first word out on eBay would have been "keep clear" of it instead of "it's fun", and you can find stuff from all over the country.
I know people who refuse to buy anything from a cataloge, simply because they did one time and either it didn't fit, was the wrong color, or never did arrive.
A free whelling, wild west atmosphere for conducting business does not prosper. When it devolves to the lowest common denominator of "buyer beware", the buyer will go someplace else or will just not buy. There is nothing at online auctions that anyone really has to have.
posted on January 16, 2002 07:01:12 AM
You can't the auction terms, but there are a couple of things you can do. If the ad doesn't state method of shipping, etc., email the seller prior to bidding. If you are unsatisfied with the transaction, leave neutral or negative feedback. If enough buyers complain, the seller will have to adjust his terms or else face fewer bids.
eBay is a free-wheeling market, but that is part of its charm. For every buyer that gets burned on shipping, there are 100 that get a great deal, better than you could find at any antique or hobby store.
The feedback forum is the place to report this kind of shipping activity.
posted on January 16, 2002 09:05:49 AM
"I am really stating my opinion that these are extremest who leave ebay over one incident"
Actually, many people "leave" a business after one incident. Given the number of choices to buy things from, why stick with someplace that has burned you, even once? It might even be more accurate that the "extremeists" are the ones who stick with someplace that has burned them!
"my personal experience buying on ebay I have a 99.9% personal satisfaction.
...If buyers leaving ebay because of one faulty incident is the norm, then ebay would nearly vanish over night."
You are contradicting yourself. If most transactions go well (which they will, I agree with your assessment...maybe its 97%, or 99%, but whatever, its pretty high), then it would take a VERY LONG time for ebay to "vanish" if people get discouraged from a single bad transaction. Even assuming 100% of people leave after a single bad transaction (and we know that is too high), and assuming the average person buys one item a month, at 99% satisfaction rate even after 5 years half the people would still be there. And, of course, that doesn't assume any new buyers arrive to take their place, which we know will happen. I'm actually pretty sure that, in fact, people who get burned are leaving ebay, but they are being masked to a large degree by new buyers (growth from other countries, people getting internet recently, children starting to buy, etc).
And I still don't see why you are trying to include this whole "costly to please" issue here. Reamond and others merely made the observation that when people do get burned by seller A, they often tend to drop out of ebay altogether, hurting seller B, C, D, .... This has nothing to do with them being "costly to please". These people aren't demanding special services, etc., they just want to be treated fairly - which costs NOTHING.
I agree that people who are extremists about product condition, say, can be costly to please, since they will often demand refunds based on non-existent flaws, and similar costly behavior, but that isn't related to the thread's discussion on fair shipping charges and communication thereof.
[ edited by captainkirk on Jan 16, 2002 09:20 AM ]
posted on January 16, 2002 11:40:52 AM
I suppose if a person reacts emotionally they may leave, but I tend to think the majority will weigh the pros and cons. If you're overcharged once you'll be undercharged once or more; you get scammed once, you get bargains fifty times.
Then there's the draw that no other place can copy. Sure you can buy a digital camera at Best Buy, but can you buy the exact model you're looking for? You can buy a book at Borders for $24.99, but not for $5.00 like on ebay!
The people that leave will calm down and come back.
posted on January 16, 2002 11:51:02 AM
Forget it REAMOND. It's a losing battle. What you talk about has become common practice with Sellers. It's become worse since the recession.
If Sellers would just state things honestly and clearly, Buyers wouldn't have to do all this leg work just to find out if the Seller's being honest or not with their shipping terms, etc. It's a headache.
Should we just send every Seller an email asking them if they're going to rip us off with Shipping and Handling fees before we purchase something? Has it come to that?
posted on January 16, 2002 12:04:49 PM
I've said it before:
It's impossible for a reasonable bidder to get ripped off on shipping as long as the shipping charge is stated as a flat rate in the auction listing (unless the seller ups the amount after the fact).
Here are the possibilities:
1) The item is a good deal after the total amount (your max bid + stated shipping) is computed. In this case it makes sense to bid.
2) The item NOT a good deal after the total amount (your max bid + stated shipping) is computed. In this case it doesn't make sense to bid.
3) The shipping charge (in your opinion) is too high when you consider the particular the item(s) to be shipped. In this case, if it's a matter of principle with you (in violation of possibility #1 above), then it doesn't make sense to bid.
4) The shipping costs aren't clearly stated. In this case the bidder should email for clarification or pass on the auction.
As long as the shipping charges are stated up front, it's impossible to be overcharged. Even $25 shipping on a 1 oz., $2 item is reasonable as long as the bidder agrees to it by bidding (ebaY's fee avoidance rules notwithstanding).
posted on January 16, 2002 12:48:52 PM
kraftdinner, that's the fact of life. Human nature won't change. If buyers can justify paying less and denying sellers a profit, then it's alright for sellers to charge more and deny buyers a bargain. Get real, except for the loyal few, buyers don't care if a business is profitable, and likewise, sellers generally don't care if buyers get a bargain. There is no other way in a free market. Whenever there's a winner, there's also a loser.
posted on January 16, 2002 02:39:37 PM"If buyers can justify paying less and denying sellers a profit...."
This is where the problem lies imo quickdraw. The Sellers are denying themselves the profit. Ask a reasonable price for the item in the first place, then add on a reasonable price for shipping. But as a Seller, don't blame the buyer for getting the item at a reduced price then gouge them for shipping so you make a profit.
posted on January 17, 2002 12:47:25 AMShould we just send every Seller an email asking them if they're going to rip us off with Shipping and Handling fees before we purchase something? Has it come to that?
The problem is, every person's opinion differs as to what is "fair," especially between buyer and seller.
The question really isn't what is fair, but what is legal. If the seller abided by his terms and delivered the item as promised, and if the buyer is still dissatisfied, buyer's only recourse is not to buy from that seller again.
posted on January 17, 2002 02:08:29 AM
Should we pay a shipping and handling fee of say $35.00 when it cost $5.00 for the seller to mail package and smile about it? The seller may state that they do not combine auctions but they are willing to put all items in ONE BOX and keep $30 handling fee. Either ya do or ya don't. Same with the book, he was charged $10.00 for mailing, 1/3 for postage and 2/3 for a greedy seller. Got away with that and no complaints so next month shipping goes up to $12.00 for the $3.58 mail charge and pretty soon more and more sellers feel he can do it so can I. This would stop me from buying but than I am sure that wouldn't bother anyone else.
posted on January 17, 2002 08:54:10 AM
"Should we pay a shipping and handling fee of say $35.00 when it cost $5.00 for the seller to mail package and smile about it?"
That is the cost of education. There's the hard way of assuming, and there's the easy way of learning from what you learn here.
I only bid when I know exactly what the s/h is, so should everyone. If you unkowingly have to pay $35 s/h on a $5 postage, you have no one to blame except yourself. It's high time people take responsibily for themselves.
