posted on May 16, 2002 01:31:35 PM
I believe you are wasting your time attempting to resolve this yourself. If you have an attorney you should turn the matter directly over to her/him. An attorney could resolve this matter much more quickly and with more force than you can. Stop spinning your wheels or writing to us. Spend the time and effort explaining to someone who can help you resolve the problem.
[ edited by kozersky on May 16, 2002 01:32 PM ]
posted on May 16, 2002 03:43:27 PM
". If you have an attorney you should turn the matter directly over to her/him. An attorney could resolve this matter much more quickly and with more force than you can."
If you have more money than you know what to do with then by all means waste it on a attorney.
I would try to resolve this with paypal first. It may be frustrating for you at this point, but in the end it will work out for you.
Read over paypal's terms of use, they do have legal terms spelled out.
Only as a last resort would I get legal advice. No attorney comes cheap!
posted on May 16, 2002 05:37:30 PM
it seems bluebb knows what the cause of the restriction is ,thats why she is not posting anymore.
unless she tells us what is the cause,we may never know??
i am curious to see if she can post the evidence paypal tried to access her account for 20k.
posted on May 19, 2002 03:01:18 PM
To: Anyone who know this
Can I post my customer emails here about what they think of this issue?
To: paypaldamon
You will be surprise how many people are suggest us to drop paypal due to unreliable services and poor customer support
Like I said before, all trasactions made between buyers and our company are completed.
Our customers are happy with us, so the problem must be at paypal.
-----------------------------------------
Paypaldamond, your company owns me an apology for the following reasons
1. Freeze up my company account without any good reasons.
2. No willing to resolve this issue before I post on auctionwatch.com, even know I had been very cooperate with your company.
3. No single chargeback was filed against our Paypal account since it became restricted.
Here is my question,
Paypal suddenly decided to freeze up our account, and holding $14,409.14 to secure and prevent any fraudulent use of this account. (Base on their user agreement)
But, if I DO NOT have enough cash flow to back up my company and continues to fulfill all the orders, then charge-back from the buyers will begin.
300 chargeback files again our company from buyers due to no goods received, doesn’t this will create more problems with Paypal and us? Or Paypal and credit card company?
Tell me, who was the one to cause the entire problem in the beginning?
Why did the Paypal ask for the documents when the account was set up?
My feedback,
Your company got a great concept that totally fit into today’s e-business,
but your customer services and support is not acceptable, specially when Paypal decided to freeze up some legit accounts, like us or other victims.
I have been very patient and cooperate with your company all this time, but I'm staring to lose my faith on your company.
My final question,
How many more days do Paypal need to resolve this problem? Is lawsuit the only key to resolve this?
posted on May 19, 2002 05:29:38 PM
bluebb,
on may 14,paypal damon posted,
Hi bluebb,
I responded earlier today about your issue. I can also post the reason for the restriction if it helps clarify the issue for other readers of the forum (with your permission).
\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
so what is the reason for restriction??
restricting 14k and trying to get 20k more from your bank account,total of 34k is serious business.
get yourself a merchant account !!
posted on May 19, 2002 05:58:21 PM
To all, here is the our payapl restriction reasons
------------------------------------------
Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2002 8:49 PM
Subject: Additional Information Request
(Cut off by bluebb)
> Dear "name",
>
> Thank you for faxing the requested information.
>
> Unfortunately, your account restriction cannot be lifted at this time. The documentation that you have faxed to us is incomplete. Please fax us the information below so we may review your account further:
>
> 1. I show that you at one time had four credit card listed on file and three of them were under someone elses name, which have been removed. However, I am requesting a hard copy of those credit card statements ending in #6624/#5073 "name" and #6855 "Name" and #5346 which is under your name. I will need verification that they gave you permission to add their credit card to your PayPal account and it will need to be notarized. (We cannot accept statements generated online)
>
> 2. Copy of your monthly statement for the bank account ending in 5230 (We cannot accept statements generated online. The statement must show your name, address and account number exactly as they appear in your PayPal account) The statement we received did not list a name or address. I show that this account is listed under a company name. You provided some form of letter, stating, that the following customer has account with "name" bank and it list information. You name is not listed on this bank account. The top part of the page has been blacked out. I will need a hard copy statment from the bank, on bank letterhead. We will need a letter from the primary bank account holder stating, they give you permission to add the company bank account to your PayPal account. It will need to be signed by the both of you and it will need to be notarized.
>
> 3. Copy of a current utility bill
>
> 4. Your account is associated with other PayPal accounts that are restricted. All issues on those accounts must be resolved, before the restriction can be lifted on your PayPal account.
>
> Please note that all of the documents listed above must legibly show your name, account number, and address as they are listed on your PayPal account. If they do not, you may be requested to resubmit these documents for review. We do not accept on-line statements.
>
> The restriction will remain on your PayPal account until the above information has been completed.
>
> You must use the cover page provided by PayPal. The cover page contains information specific to you and this restriction, and using it ensures that your documents are routed and handled in a timely manner. To print the cover page, go to:
>
> (Cut off by bluebb)
-------------------------------------------
I took out all the name...
[ edited by bluebb on May 19, 2002 06:00 PM ]
[ edited by bluebb on May 19, 2002 06:02 PM ]
posted on May 19, 2002 06:19:53 PM
wow,this is another case of having your paypal account associated with other paypal accounts who may have a deficit.
if you are new to this board,you may find past threads on how one paypal account gets restricted if they have in some way found to be associated with other paypal accounts who owe paypal money.
do you own your own pc,where do you access your paypal account,on your own pc ,on other people's pc or kinko or library pc??
have you allowed others to use your pc to access their paypal account?
it sounds like there is an issue with your credit card you enrolled with paypal and the bank account you link to your paypal account.
may be others can shed more light into this/
posted on May 19, 2002 06:53:21 PM
Paypal ask
…..“The documentation that you have faxed to us is incomplete”
My reply
Sure, it was incomplete; because I was told by Paypal customer services rep. that “Paypal “might” need those documents to review even know she does not sure what are the reasons that our account was restricted in the first place”, I never got any email from Payapl that why type of documents I need to fax over before I post on auctionwatch.com, by the way, I did not even get a fax cover sheet at first time faxed.
My action
Faxed all the required documents to Paypal again
Paypal ask
….“verification that they gave you permission to add their credit card to your Paypal account”
My reply
Those credit cards were added to my Paypal account back in 2001, why did you ask for at that time?
None of those credit cards were file chargeback or have any complains, why Paypal bother to ask for authorize?
My action
Gather all the people, (2 of credit cards were not mine) to the notary place, having a little party first and get the all statement and documents notarized. It cost 10 pre notary signatures
Paypal ask
…..“monthly statement for the bank account ending in 5230”….… not list a name or address. I show that this account is listed under a company name. You provided some form of letter, stating that the following customer has account with "name" bank and it list information. You name is not listed on this bank account……give you permission to add the company bank account to your Paypal account
My reply
It’s a business account, of curse it’s under Business name which it match my Paypal business account name, Paypal, are you even reading them? I had also included a letter from the Bank stated the address was updated in May 01, 2002, why not call the bank to verify it.
My action
Faxed
1. Authorization Letter from my partner and myself to add my company bank account to paypal.
2. Explanation letter (DBA and address)
3. DBA Record
4. Confirmation Letter from the Bank
5. Bank statement match with Paypal Account
All documents were notarized, again it’s $10 pre notary signature.
Paypal ask
“Copy of a current utility bill”
My reply
It was under a DBA name, there is not utility bill for this company, only bill I can provided to Paypal is my FedEx bill with account number on it. Beside, this is a new location, which no bill have received it yet.
My Action
Faxed FedEx Bill, match the address and company name listed in Paypal account.
Paypal ask
…….associated with other PayPal accounts that are restricted
My reply
My partner is running a different Paypal account under different Business name, which Paypal freeze up the same time. But, he was asked to fax over the following documents
Copy of valid Driver license
Bank statement
Utility bill
Remember, his account is still freeze up by Paypal. There is only one chargeback filed again his account but it was after the account has been freeze up, chargeback was took care right away by provide valid tracking number and we did resolve the issue directly with customer, customer agreed to drop the charged back. The chargeback is less than $40.00
Updated:
Here are documents I faxed to Paypal on May 15, 2002
Paypal confirmed received the fax on May 16, 2002
TABLE OF CONTENTS
PG # Documents
1 Cover Page
2 Authorization Letter from “name”
3-4 Bank Statement for Debit Card (xx55)
5 Authorization Letter from “name”
6 Statement for Credit Card (xx73)
7 Statement for Credit Card (xx24)
8 My Own Authorization Letter
9-10 My Bank Statement for Debit Card xx46)
11 Authorization Letter from “name”
12 Explanation Letter
13-14 DBA Record
15 Confirmation Letter from name Bank
16-18 Company Bank Statement
19 FedEx Bill
20 My Driver's License
21 Notarized Document
My Lawyer told me this, in order to filled a lawsuit case with Paypal, I need to wait at least 30 days after they freeze up the account, during this time, I need to be 100% cooperate with Paypal. Sad but true…..
My final question,
How many more days do Paypal need to resolve this problem? Is lawsuit the only key to resolve this?
posted on May 19, 2002 07:34:04 PM
are you a college student??
is your partner a college student??how many partners are there in your business?when did you apply for a DBA??
whose credit cards have you signed up with paypal??true,DBA may not have an office and even if it does,may not have to pay its utility bill
i think paypal is such a nifty tool,we all want paypal to be what we want it to be,sadly we should all read its terms more often,as our business evolves,we may not fit their terms (or vice versa) or we have outgrown paypal and should move on to a merchant account.
good luck to you,i dont know what you need,not sure a lawyer is going to help??
when your customers start filing chargebacks,paypal would want to lock up more funds??dont forget there is a 10 dollars chargeback fee ,did you say 300 potential chargebacks??
stay calm,co-operate with them the best you can,it goes for your partner as well,if you are working with one individual employee,get his name and see if you can also mail him backup copies besides faxing.
posted on May 19, 2002 07:50:38 PM
This is getting to be old. Why in the world would anyone do business like that. No address, credit cards in others name. No name on business or banks etc. The list goes on and you wonder why paypal won't open the accounts. Why do you and your partner have different accounts? Lots to read between the lines and I for one wouldn't post in here until all the facts are given. This is a hard group in here and we all try and do our best to help each other, but when things happen with PayPal, most of us are small sellers (I think) and have no problem with PayPal. Are you new to business or have you been in this business for a while? Well, good luck, but something isn't right. I am not here to judge you or anyone who has problems, but problems happen because people don't follow rules.
posted on May 19, 2002 08:46:36 PM
bluebb said,
Paypal ask
….“verification that they gave you permission to add their credit card to your Paypal account”
My reply
Those credit cards were added to my Paypal account back in 2001, why did you ask for at that time?
None of those credit cards were file chargeback or have any complains, why Paypal bother to ask for authorize?
My action
Gather all the people, (2 of credit cards were not mine) to the notary place, having a little party first and get the all statement and documents notarized. It cost 10 pre notary signatures
\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
she is saying if paypal did not ask when she registered those 2 cards back in 2001,why ask now??
this is definitely a college student,could be a junior high or grade school honors student.
posted on May 20, 2002 01:09:43 AM
You people do not read do you. Just plug away choping away at anyone that comes to these boards. Sick puppies.
I do not blindly believe people either but I listen to what they say.
Additionally what if this person is not an American or is a New American? Other cultures have different ways. Not exactly an excuse but what they have done is not wrong.
If the person has a partner and they used credit cards of the partner then they would not be theirs now would they.
Yes, if you say it is a violation of the PayPal rules why would PayPal even allow them to be added, faulty software / no customer service on their end?
Yes a lot of people cry about paypal alot on these boards but you should not shoot them down that fast, read what they have to say first and do not blindly disagree with them.
For all of you that like to argue go over to the eBay boards and play. They are having a good knock down drag out over there now in the Payments fourm. Real AW people like to try and help each other.
….No address…
??? What address? We listed both company and home address under PayPal.
…credit cards in others name…
Both credit cards were under my sister’s names, was helping my sisters to paid few auctions she won back in 2001. By the way, I did fax over the letter of “verification” on she authorized me to add and use those credit cards on PayPal account. But why this has anything to do with freeze up my company’s papal account.
…No name on business or banks etc……
??? Did you read? Our bank account is under my company which it match my PayPal business name.
…our partner have different accounts?...
We are doing different business under different name,
Company1
DBA Company2 with www.Company2.com
DBA Company3 with www.Company3.com
Therefore, we need two PayPal accounts to match with our company name and website address.
…new to business…
Yes, I’m new.
…..don't follow rules….
I did follow every single Papal rule, that’s why we had DBA names under different business, I bet even Paypaldamon can not tell you what rule our company broken to cause the account been restricted.
To uaru
… Why would you have 2 credit cards on your account that weren't yours?....
Both credit cards were under my sister’s names, was helping my sisters to paid few auctions she won back in 2001. By the way, I did fax over the letter of “verification” on she authorized me to add and use those credit cards on PayPal account. But why this has anything to do with freeze up my company’s papal account.
To Stopwhining:
are you a college student??.....
Yes.
how many partners are there in your business?......
2
when did you apply for a DBA??...
March 2002
…whose credit cards have you signed up with PayPal….
My sisters
…a lawyer is going to help..
Sure it will,
…did you say 300 potential?
At this point, we had fulfilled all the orders that involved with PayPal account and No charge back will be filed against our PayPal account. We have more than 1164 positive feedback on eBay. 0 Negative (the only one (1) negative will be remove by Squretrade.com)
..you are working with one individual employee,get his name and see….
Paypaldamon was helping me all this time.
Thank you for your suggestion during this time,
To Paypaldamon
Try not to waste any more of your time on my post and I bet you must be so busy helping other people. You had done your best to help me, and I do appreciate. Let your company decided to keep me as customer or plaintiff.
To Lanefamily/Jim
I appreciated your kindness.
-----For those who do not know what DBA for-----
What is a "DBA" or Fictitious Business Name (FBN)?
Simply put, a "DBA" stands for "Doing Business As...", where a person or a company is operating their business using a business name other than their real, actual name.
What does a DBA or FBN filing do for me?
The most important immediate use of a DBA is the ability to open a bank account in the name of the business. Without such a DBA registered, it is virtually impossible to open a bank account, and banks will generally instruct you to come back at a later date, when you can show them your filed copy of your DBA registration certificate.
Example of DBA names
VeriSign Inc. DBA Network Solutions Inc.
SBC DBA Southwestern Bell®, Ameritech ®, Pacific Bell® ….etc
WorldCom Inc DBA Telecom USA
ACC Telecom DBA Lucky Dog Phone Company
Why and When to use DBA names?
Ask your lawyers or CAP 
What do I want PayPal to do?
Hurry up and review those documents I faxed over, do not feel shy when you need to talk to me.
What will I do next?
I will do my time (30days) with PayPal before file a lawsuit with them, if they did decide to reinstate my PayPal account, I’ll update with everyone here.
Till today, I have not yet post any “NEGATIVE” word about PayPal, encourage anyone not to use PayPal or state I will not longer to use PayPal.
Again, this was just my experience with Paypal.com. I wish all others good luck in any business they may be doing with PayPal.
posted on May 20, 2002 08:05:37 AM
lanefamily,
your defense is no better than our offense,new american with different cultural customs/background??thos new americans better learn the ropes by first reading the terms and move cautiously.
this is not a new american.cant you tell??
signing up with other people's credit cards ti help pay for her auctions,have a party before going to the notary public??
if this is a NEW AMERCAN,what is your definition of AN OLD AMERICAN??ABE ?? G WASHINGTON,DANIEL BOONE??
posted on May 20, 2002 08:22:02 AMlanefamilyYou people do not read do you. Just plug away choping away at anyone that comes to these boards. Sick puppies.
I think you are being a bit unreasonable Jim. Frankly I appreciate that these "sick puppies" that haven't accepted things as first presented and have asked some questions. A few people (including myself) believe that things aren't exactly as offered when bluebb started this "Another PayPal Victim..." then stated:
My Paypal is verified business account. I used the account for a little over a month and was suddenly put under restricted status for an unknown reason.
As more information trickled in it appears there may be several very valid reasons for restricting the account or as it seems now accounts. We are a long way from the picture painted on the first post of this thread.
posted on May 20, 2002 08:44:03 AM
First things first. I don't come into this board to critize people, but when someone comes in here and posts then they are putting themselves in a position to be critized. Credit Cards that belong to other people do not belong on an individual account of other people. Why didn't she open her own account? It isn't a difficult thing to do. I can read between the lines and figure that you were new to business, but that doesn't mean you can go in blind, open a PayPal account. You should have had a lawyer first. Priorities have to be set when going into business.
I can't understand why people come into this board only to critize PayPal as the original poster did. He was never here before, but all of a sudden appears hear. This is a discussion board and now we are discussing this situation and he doesn't like it.
I also can't understand why they don't have their own Visa account instead of using someone elses? Also when PayPal freezes accounts those accounts are linked to some account in the bank and that gets frozen also. If you would read this discussion board you would find that most of us have separate bank accounts for PayPal so they can't take all our money from us.
Keep us up to date so that we know what is happening, and also if you would have read my post all the way through I did wish you good luck.
posted on May 20, 2002 09:24:39 AM
Unfortunately when people post grievances with Paypal, the first response is usually "you probably didn't follow the rules, so it's your own fault."
There are many issues here besides whether Paypal *should* have locked up a user's account. For example, why were repeated faxes not received, until the user came to post publicly here at AW? Why did Paypal deny attempting to reverse transactions, when according to the user's bank, several attempts were made? Why did Paypal customer service fail to adequately notify the user of the nature of the problem, and provide specific instructions to address the issue?
It's easy to second-guess both parties, but if it was your $15,000 I think you'd expect a little more instruction and help.
It's ironic that again and again, user complaints are only addressed after the user makes their way into this public forum. PaypalDamon's presence here is nothing but public relations. Why aren't all Paypal's CS reps as helpful? We all know of Damon's ability to wave a magic wand and make the complaint go away. But what of the thousands of users who don't air their grievances in public? Why don't they get the same level of support?
You people who attack anyone with a problem give the impression of paid lackeys. Paypal's behavior has always been despicable. If you don't see that, just wait until they lock up your account because they "suspect someone paid you with a fraudulent credit card." I'd be very curious to know exactly how much of other people's money Paypal has frozen at any one time, and how much Paypal earns of those seized funds.
That shows your intelligent level. While I try not to get into these things you just ask for it by the stupid things you say.
While I have not studied this for oh 30 years I think once you apply and take the tests you can become an American from any other nationality in 5 years. This would be a New American. Try reading the meaning of what people say and do not try to think of something smart or dumb to say.
I have no idea if this person is or not I was giving an example. As far as that goes they can be here and conduct business without being an American go figure that.
uaru
My statement was a bit broad when I said "you people" The people I was not referencing I think understand, the people I was do not.
I take everything with a grain of salt when posted here or on any board but usually the first thing out of my mouth is not an insult, to call someone a troll, or “I don't believe you.” IF something does not add up I ask a question. If they do not answer in 5 minutes I again do not scream troll or I guess they found out how wrong they were.
As shown I can do it when necessary epically to people that show little intellect. In general I choose not to. The people that do, have a higher posting count. I have 551 in about 1.5 years you can see vs some of the others this is true.
Stopwhining, yes. GW or Abe would be considered old Americans in any book. Indians may also fall in to this category
posted on May 20, 2002 10:24:32 AM
Ignorance of the law (or rules) is no excuse.
I have never owned a business until recently. I had no idea where to start, how to file for a business license, even how to incorporate. I started in a logical place. I asked my accountant. She set it all up for me and got me legal. If I hadn't had an accountant, my next step would have been to call my niece, who is a lawyer, so she could refer me to someone who specialized in what I needed.
PayPal spells their rules out when you sign up for their services. If you sign anything without reading it, agree to terms without sitting down and reading the contract you are entering into, then you shouldn't be surprised when things go awry.
No one is saying that PayPal's customer service couldn't use some help. People complain about them for a reason. However, it's annoying to have one picture painted, that of PayPal being the big bad ogre who has, again, screwed someone over when that's just not the case.
This guy had multiple credit cards registered with PayPal, all of them in different names. He violated so many of PayPal's rules that I've lost count.
I would have frozen his accounts, too. With as much fraud that is going on, I would have been mighty suspicious about all those cards in different names. Or maybe PayPal should have just shrugged and said, "eh, he's probably on the up and up. Let it go."
I just love paying the fees I already pay to PayPal. What's a few more tacked on to cover deadbeats and thieves?
~*~
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars. ~Oscar Wilde
posted on May 20, 2002 11:59:03 AM
paypaldamon asked for your permission to tell us their side of this story, would you give it?
If so, please realize that it will need to be quite clear and explicit.
posted on May 20, 2002 12:41:57 PM
I just received an email from Pay Pal yesterday. There is a payment that I received in April that they are now reversing. The email contained a link that you were to use to respond to the payment reversal. Kinda hard to respond with the informtation that Pay Pal wants when the link that they send in the email does not work. Even tried copying and pasting it. Did not work. Fantastic system!!!!!!!! I'm now rethinking my account with this company!!
posted on May 20, 2002 03:24:35 PM
most of the paypal users who come to this board to complain of their troubles with paypal do not have a simple arrangement -some of them come with a big headache and need a bottle full of aspirin .
signing up with other people's credit card,signing up with other people's bank account,moving from one country to another and changing internet service provider,accessing account from a country on the paypal black list,allowing others to share paypal account,internet access,password .
selling things they do not have on hand and cannot make timely delivery,and customers start filing chargeback.
you hear it all here-ex hubby,ex roommate,ex partner,cousin,father,mother,in law etc.
true,there is a good chance any of us accepting paypal will face a chargeback someday,thats part of doing business,anytime you accept cc payment,you could have chargeback.
but these folks who come to complain about their paypal problems think they can run their business the way they see fit.
the excuse is bluebb registered with her sister's credit cards back in 2001 and paypal did not stop her,so why ask her now??
club1man has 71 chragebacks and it is not his fault as paypal is the one which accepted the charges.
adolf hitler 's generals all claimed they were just clerks taking orders after WW II.
yeah,sure new american versus old american,ever wonder why only american born in this country can run for president,lest we end up with a file clerk in third reich??
posted on May 20, 2002 04:15:25 PM
Tell PayPal and that entire ilk to take a hike ... they all *all* crooks. Go back to using money orders and cheques and you will be a lot happier (and safer).
posted on May 20, 2002 06:08:02 PM
vohnjamm you better be sure that the e-mail is from paypal. Do not try and get that link to work by just pasting it and Do not enter any personal or password information. That could very easily be a scam and this is how things like this get started. Someone answers a paste and copy and all of a sudden the money is gone . If there is a problem CALL them and be sure of it before anything else. and as a side note blubb MORE THAN DESERVED to have that account restircted and Forzen. Get Real even if it is not that has the look of SCAm all over it.
