posted on September 25, 2002 12:04:47 PM
You still do not get it RB...
Even YOU charge "handling". You just factor it in to your starting price. Unless you have unpaid, starving slave packers who do not cost you a cent and effortlessly obtained shipping matierials dropped in your lap, you have handling expenses. Which means you and all the others with the same practice are contributing to Meg's new yacht with a portion of YOUR incurred expenses. You just do not seperate it and pay taxes on it.
BASIC BUSINESS 101: A good business does not increase their expenses nor lower their profit margin for no gain.
You do.
.
A Man will spend $2.00 for a $1.00 item he needs.
A Woman will spend $1.00 for a $2.00 item she doesn't need.
posted on September 25, 2002 02:44:08 PM
Pandorasbox
Great post, very educational.
Any time you return something to B&H and it's not because of a problem with it, you have to pay a restocking fee.
I could imagine the bids if I wanted to do that. ha. ha.
I am guessing that Restoration Hardware, Eddie Bauer, Buy.com, etc pay some sort of wholesale shipping rate?
I am here on the ground today...going to the PO, getting shipping costs, then emailing folks their rates. I know I need a scale, but $9 for shipping is what it costs, would I recoup much with a handling charge?
I did experiment with a flat fee on a microphone I sold, it worked well.
Well, anyhow, rather than wasting time trying to convince each other who is right, I would love to learn more about how to figure my cost of doing business, and not having to carve a fee out of it for ebay to boot. For now, I am just doing USPS, and though my bubble wrap and peanuts are running low, I still can't figure out a way to add the costs in overtly.
I just got a nice price on a pair of boots, and I will be glad of that, but what if I was paying the mortgage with that? Hmmm...
I am just glad to get exact shipping. Even my TOS I address my flub factor, but today I just shipped off three heavy magazines...man did I guess wrong on those, to the tune of $1.80 so it ate into my ending bid.
Great thread...
Japerton
...who realizes she hasn't paid $2 for an unnecessary $1 item for a long time, but then again, those sterotypes can be deceiving!
posted on September 25, 2002 03:07:25 PM
Dontcha just love buyers who love to tell sellers how to run their business, how much money their time is worth, that they should not have a handling fee....and on & on..Buyers are already dictating what any given item is worth, usually BELOW fair market and then they want you to eat all the fees INCLUDING Paypal fees. According to them, the time alone invoved in putting up even just one auction matters not. They are greedy & selfish and want everything what costs for free, if they could get it for free! And they think they know it all..The only thing that tees me off worse are the pious goody two shoes "sellers" who NEVER WOULD, NEVER COULD, NEVER DO charge a handling fee..Oh well...time for supper and my mind is wandering...Been a rough day preparing & shipping auctions for free...c-ya..
Krazy Kat
posted on September 25, 2002 03:09:18 PM
Yes, I do include my costs of doing business in the starting price of my item, same as it is done in the real world. I am not afraid to compete on price, same as WalMart, Sears, Target, etc who also include their cost of doing business in their selling (not starting in this case) price. If my (or Walmart'e etc.) starting/selling price is too high, I/we can:
1. Lower my/their profit and drop the starting price,
2. Work smarter to lower my/their costs of doing business and drop the starting price,
3. Stop selling the item.
As I have stated a gazillion times already, I don't have a problem with a buyer paying a "handling" charge as long as the seller indicates that up front. The problem I do have (very minor, and really something sellers need to think about more than buyers) with a combined S&H cost is that most of the time a buyer will pay this assuming it's the shipping cost. When he pays $9.95 S&H for an item that arrives with a 43 cent stamp on it, whether or not it's legit and even though it was agreed to, the buyer will not be a happy camper.
There is a perception of being ripped off.
Sorry, again, for the big word but if anyone knows what "perception" means and how it affects what people think and do, you'll understand my issue.
kiddo2 ... when you grow up, you'll understand too
posted on September 25, 2002 05:16:48 PM
Wonderful originating post, pandorasbox.
By my horseback estimate, at least 95% of the people cruising the AW message boards have no idea how to run a business or what it entails.
This is not necessarily a scathing indictment, though. Remember that eBay is a marketplace open to all, including rank amateurs with naive notions.
The problem arises when the amateurs assign morality to the issue of s/h and make pronouncements thereon as if they were laws of nature.
I have long hoped for a message board strictly for professional sellers. Many of the perennial disagreements on AW are between rank amateurs and professionals who put their livelihood on the line everyday on eBay.
posted on September 26, 2002 01:36:22 AM
fluffythewondercat
amateurs assign morality to the issue of s/h and make pronouncements thereon
Hear!!!Hear!!!
posted on September 26, 2002 05:45:28 AM
Well RB, perception by a customer does not make it correct or right. If you were selling an items and the customer perceived that anything over one-half final bid price should be enough payment including the S/H, then according to you, they are correct in their perception. Maybe I should start perceiving some of your auctions and pick up some things for FREE!
.
A Man will spend $2.00 for a $1.00 item he needs.
A Woman will spend $1.00 for a $2.00 item she doesn't need.
edited for speling erorrs
[ edited by mlecher on Sep 26, 2002 05:46 AM ]
posted on September 26, 2002 10:01:27 AM
Upon more thought, with fixed pricing it can be better to include the postage and handling in the price, but not with auction bidding. In the past I have had good sellers that had no profit, so what I did was jack up the price to cover postage and handling, plus a little profit, and then said "Free Shipping." It worked everytime. I also did it with an item that never got bids even with a low start bid, but as soon as I jack up the price high and say "Free Shipping" that too sold each time.
For some reason though it doesn't work with bidding auctions. I have lost money each time offering free shipping on bidding auctions.
posted on September 26, 2002 12:51:41 PM
It does not matter to me if a buyer charges $100.00 handling charge as long as there is a total cost for shipping and handling. Who cares what the charge is for as long as you know how much it is before bidding. If I want to pay $150.00 for an item and the shipping and handling is $100.00 I know I can bid $50.00
I do not charge big handling charges anywhere from .35 cents to $3.00 depending on where it is going to. I make more on the handling from people that live near me than people that live in zone 8, but buy making it a set price all bidders pay the same. I have had about 3 complaints about it in 5,000 + sales so to the few that whine about it thanks for not bidding on my auctions.
posted on September 26, 2002 01:00:20 PMWhere most of the problems actually arise, however, is when a seller disguises, misleads or otherwise plays games with the buyer.
A typical example is to say $3.85 for shipping in an auction description, which most people know is the cost of a one pound Priority Mail package, and then send it in an envelope with a couple of stamps.
While the seller is not exactly being dishonest, he is certainly intending to deceive, and deserves any ill feelings he created.
This typical example stated above is a completely honest, straightforward, and fair method of doing business. The shipping charge is clearly stated. If a bid is placed the buyer is at fault if he/she makes an incorrect assumtion, not the seller.
posted on September 26, 2002 01:08:40 PM
toolhound ... Spot On!
The other guy wrote typical example stated above is a completely honest, straightforward, and fair method of doing business. The shipping charge is clearly stated. If a bid is placed the buyer is at fault if he/she makes an incorrect assumtion, not the seller.
Great attitude for a seller in a depressed eBay economy. Keep it up Pal ... it'll make more room for other, less devious sellers.
posted on September 26, 2002 01:19:51 PM
How is clearly stating a shipping charge being devious? Doing so is the ultimate in fairness. Clear, concise, and straight to the point. If you bid and win, you pay this amount for shipping. No ambiguities here unless a less than intelligent buyer reads something into the statement that simply isn't there.
I sold on ebay for more than 2 years with zero negatives in my feedback profile. I used this method of charging for shipping quite often during that time with no problems and very few complaints. But then maybe all of my customers were intelligent enough to think in a rational manner.
posted on September 26, 2002 01:25:19 PM
Re-read what you said, particularily the part about If a bid is placed the buyer is at fault ...
Whatever happened to customer relations? You deceptively state your shipping charge at a value that is mysteriously identical to a standard rate used by one method, a buyer makes the wrong assumption, you ship via a cheaper rate, and it's the buyer's fault for placing a bid. Great seller attitude.
I'm going to start a new on-line auction service. Think I'll call it eBray. If someone signs up thinking it's something else, screw 'em.
posted on September 26, 2002 01:35:24 PM
Your quote was incomplete. I said:
If a bid is placed the buyer is at fault if he/she makes an incorrect assumtion, not the seller.
This is very different from your out-of-context partial quote. How is the seller being deceptive if he states a shipping charge of ANY amount without stating a shipping method. Deception is stating that shipping will be via Priority Mail and then shipping First Class. If a buyer ASSumes priority when priority isn't stated then the buyer is at fault, not the seller. A clearly stated shipping charge is completely fair and reasonable to a buyer who is capable of rational thought.
[ edited by mrbusinessman on Sep 26, 2002 01:37 PM ]
posted on September 26, 2002 01:38:41 PM
Too bad if it all seems deceiving, tell me something new. Salesmen smile to make a sale, not to show they want to be your friend; Movie Trailers pack in the funniest scenes in 30 seconds making you think the whole film is funny; Brand A says they are better than Brand B; Ebay says Bold gets 37% more bids; Commercials show a big beefy hamburger, and on and on.
Why has our society depend on a little deceiving? Because we'd all starve if we had to depend on straightfoward honesty, don't you agree. Do women really need another Diamond? Will that colgne really cause a stampede of ladies to you? Marketing is deception, hate to be the first to tel you that, but it's true. If you don't use it a little, your sales probably aren't very good.
posted on September 26, 2002 02:00:29 PM
Oh brother ... pandorasbox, original poster who says it's their "2 cents worth" certainly did open her box ... this is ridiculous .... and as RB said, "You do what you have to do, and I'll do what I have to do. We both have a valid argument. " ... we ALL have valid "argument" as far as how WE want to handle our OWN business ... I cannot believe how much people 'argue' [or debate] s/h .... because IT REALLY DOESN'T MATTER ... we can all set up as we please, no ifs ands or buts and we're all still "in the biz" . Some of you gave me some flack a few weeks ago when i mentioned as a side-note that i sometimes decrease my stated s/h when there is only one sole bidder. ... i'm thinkin' like 'so what?!' .... the ONLY reason i come back and read this thread [that i thought would stay small] is that you all keep posting which keeps it 'on top' ... and it REALLY does boil down to all ebay sellers do their s/i or s/h/i differently to our own liking, ... period. Every GERM-y thread online has a little guardian angel nearby it .... whispering to it ...
posted on September 26, 2002 03:19:23 PM
Well aintrichyet....
It is just that I hate being called and thief, and hate being accused of fee-avoidance simply because I do not hide my handling costs in the starting bid.
.
A Man will spend $2.00 for a $1.00 item he needs.
A Woman will spend $1.00 for a $2.00 item she doesn't need.
