HJW
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posted on January 25, 2001 11:26:19 AM
http://www.cnn.com/2001/LAW/01/25/wrestling.verdict.01/index.html
A Florida jury just convicted a 13 year old
boy of first degree murder after wrestling
death.
What do you think?
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dogdays
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posted on January 25, 2001 11:56:27 AM
Was this boy tried as an adult? I'm not sure how any court can offer up a child to life in prison, but certainly he was old enough to have known he was hurting the younger child with his wrestling maneuvers. There needs to be punishment, but to this extent?
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stockticker
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posted on January 25, 2001 12:00:56 PM
There's not enough information in the article. I assume there must have been testimony from psychiatrists? Were there prior incidents?
Irene
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mauimoods
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posted on January 25, 2001 12:02:37 PM
I think kids nowadays are so subject to brutality and violence in everyday tv shows, and dont have to pay the consequences for their actions and have LEARNED to plead "im just a kid" that they KNOW they can get away with murder. Just like those two ten year olds who TORTURED that 2 year old. 13 is old enough to know what is fake, i.e wrestling shows, and what is REAL. He pummeled that kid to death. Now he can pay the price.
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maddienicks
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posted on January 25, 2001 12:15:36 PM
They found him guilty, but they haven't sentenced him yet. CNN was saying they don't think it likely that he will get life, and that there are juvenile facilities in that state.
The little girl's injuries were not consistent with his story, which changed a few times back when it first happened, which is part of why they have found him guilty.
Kris
[email protected]
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Zazzie
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posted on January 25, 2001 12:16:09 PM
Sure wish they would treat drunk drivers who kill in a similar manner
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HJW
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posted on January 25, 2001 01:33:37 PM
zazzie
It would certainly be more appropriate.
Helen
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HJW
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posted on January 25, 2001 01:50:55 PM
Doesn't this appear to be an accident. According to the news, he was
trying to emulate wrestling moves as he had seen on TV (not knowing
that the wrestling moves are fake.)
It's embarassing to me to think that a US court would prosecute a
13 year old child under these circumstances. If anything, it should
be a mental health issue with no prosecutor involved.
He now faces life without parole although that could be commuted by the governor.
I guess we will have to caution our children not to play too rough
on the playground...they may be convicted of murder if there is an
accident.
Helen
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gravid
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posted on January 25, 2001 02:47:46 PM
We are not talking about one mistaken shove or a single blow that was worse than expected such as might occur on a playground. We are talking about beating someone to death and that take a tremendous
amount of repeated force to generate injuries like falling out of a 3rd story window. You can not hit someone like that and not be aware of how it hurts your own hands. It takes ignoring the
pleas and obvious expressions of hurt and just continuing anyway. To break bones you know you are doing damage.
What we have here is a person with a personality mostly formed who has no empathy at all. It is too late to talk about rehabilitating him. At this point you can act to protect the public so he does not have another chance to do it again.
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bobbi355
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posted on January 25, 2001 03:04:20 PM
According to CNN, the 13-year-old 'child' weighs 180 pounds and the 6-year-old little girl weighed 40 pounds. They showed a coroner's sketch of all the blunt force injuries.
[ edited by bobbi355 on Jan 25, 2001 03:06 PM ]
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victoria
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posted on January 25, 2001 03:15:52 PM
I missed this one, and I'm sorry I know about it now.
I feel sick.
I don't need to see the pictures, I can imagine what he saw and what he heard. And yet he continued. He beat her to death.
I can't imagine, and I don't want to get any closer to trying, what Tiffany's family must have gone through when they were shown her body.
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HJW
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posted on January 25, 2001 03:48:42 PM
http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/national/AP-Wrestling-Death.html
The mother who was supposed to be babysitting
was sleeping.
[ edited by HJW on Jan 25, 2001 04:58 PM ]
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Shoshanah
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posted on January 25, 2001 06:41:08 PM
That is what surprised me most: that the mother was asleep...I would assume that the little girl must have screamed as her little bones were being broken. How could the mother sleep through it all? It did not take just a couple minutes to kill that child...
Strange times we live in!
On that note, while I took a break this afternoon, I came across a daytime show where a 7 year-old little girl was sueing a [4[/b] year-old little boy for breaking her glasses????What is going on?????
Of course, it was all engineered by the girl's mother...Still, what kind of message does this send?
********
Gosh Shosh!
About Me
Old And Sold
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gravid
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posted on January 25, 2001 06:50:21 PM
Maybe the Mother was sleeping off a drunk or high. We had a couple here sleep through it while their Rottwieler chewed their little girls foot off. I imaigine she made a bit of noise also but they were drunk as a skunk so they might as well have left the girl alone.
Same level of neglect.
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bunnicula
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posted on January 25, 2001 07:09:45 PM
Unfortunately, he probably will get off by pleading a mental health problem. It's simply amazing how so many people develop mental health problems when faced with paying for a crime. We as a society tend to show way more compassion to criminals than we do to their victims. So, this kid will be given a slap on the wrist in all probability, and released when he is 18. With his record sealed. At which time we will probably hear more from him...
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HJW
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posted on January 25, 2001 07:13:49 PM
gravid and shosh
That must have been a deep sleep. I mentioned that because I think
she should share more blame for this incident than the 12 year old. As you said,
Gravid, the 6 year old was virtually alone.
The mother of the boy is a Florida Highway Patrol trooper.
Normal 12 year old's would not be involved in such an attack. That is
why I suggested a need for mental help rather than a first degree
murder charge and a possible life sentence.
Helen
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mauimoods
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posted on January 25, 2001 07:21:23 PM
Personally, I hope the kid winds up in prison and gets "practised on" by another kid who weighs 250 lbs while the guards are sleeping. The sleeping mother didnt beat that child to death, the BOY DID. Sheesh.
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mybiddness
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posted on January 25, 2001 07:32:38 PM
Stories like this one always make me wonder what kind of a life the perpetrator had. I mean, how could he have ever reached the state of mind to think that striking a 40lb girl was o.k. no matter how many wrestling programs he's watched? It doesn't make sense.
I think he should be locked up. But, he obviously needs intensive therapy as well. He couldn't have gotten where he is by himself.
Not paranoid anywhere else but here!
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HJW
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posted on January 25, 2001 07:43:19 PM
mybiddness
That is exactly what I was trying to say.
He didn't get that way in a vacuum.
Helen
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gravid
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posted on January 26, 2001 02:56:20 AM
On the news tonight they said it was over. He got life. He would have gotten 3 years if he had pleaded guilty, but he got the same quality of legal help as he got rearing.
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nettak
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posted on January 26, 2001 03:07:14 AM
What do they call life?? Is it for 10 years , 15 years or 25 years??, and where are they going to keep him, is he going to a juvenile detention centre or a jail.
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december3
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posted on January 26, 2001 05:52:26 AM
That boy belongs in an institution for the criminally insane. Forever. He is dangerous and his mother is irresponsible.
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HJW
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posted on January 26, 2001 06:13:05 AM
When this news was first announced, they
failed to mention that the girl was stomped
punched and kicked. She suffered a fractured skull, lacerated liver, broken rib, internal hemorrhaging and cuts and bruises. The prosecution expert said the the injuries were comparable to falling from a three story building.
Well, it appears to be a barbaric attack by a child with mental
problems which has been handled in the same barbaric manner by
Florida law enforcement and legal authorities who should know
better.
Helen
spelling correction
[ edited by HJW on Jan 26, 2001 06:15 AM ]
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figmente
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posted on January 26, 2001 06:32:50 AM
Saw a bit more of this on tv news last night. The defense is totally unconvincing.
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kiki2
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posted on January 26, 2001 08:38:41 AM
I have NO sympathy for the boy. Send his butt to jail. When I was 13 years old, I knew the consequences of my actions.
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boysmommy3
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posted on January 26, 2001 09:36:46 AM
So many thoughts on this...
#1 - The mother of the boy should also be charged - he did not get that way on his own and she was negligent by sleeping when she was supposed to be watching this little girl. Had the little girl wandered out and was hit by a car she would be liable - I believe the same applies here.
#2 - The wrestling defense was a joke. The injuries did not match the 'move' he proclaimed to use. The injuries were very severe and described as several hits/kicks etc. - not just one wrestling move.
#3 - As posted above - the little girl - would definitely have screamed. Why did the mother not hear? Probably sleeping off a high. In California a couple of years ago, a woman was sleeping off a meth high on her couch and her 2 and 3 year old beautiful little girls walked out of the unlocked apartment, down the street and onto the railroad tracks where, yes, they were hit and killed.
#4 - Just another example of a neglected young man (see the whole story) who has no discipline turns into a 100+ pound 13 year old killer. There is no remorse. Your conscious is developed fully by the age of 3. He was not nurtured, was left alone a lot and what he became is solely his mother's fault. He now must pay the consequences.
Definitely sad to think that a 13 year old will go to prison for his lifetime. When you have children that are severely neglected and no one steps in - they become these type of no-conscious people. Unless he can be and they should try to, rehabilitate him, he needs to be away as he will only hurt again if let out.
Very sad but I will say again the mother is at full fault too and somehow should be charged. I think child endangerment would fit as she was supposed to be watching the little girl, not her son.
[ edited by boysmommy3 on Jan 26, 2001 09:40 AM ]
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HJW
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posted on January 26, 2001 09:57:38 AM
As Hillary titled her book, It Takes a Village to raise a child.
It can also be said that it takes a village to ruin one. So, not
knowing her circumstances, I can't fault her completely for the childs behavior.
But in this case, it was her responsibility to babysit this child
and instead, she went to sleep...leaving the 6 year alone to wrestle
with a 170 pound 12 year old boy. That kind
of negligence is criminal.
Helen
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codasaurus
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posted on January 26, 2001 10:18:01 AM
If this boy has no hope of rehabilitation then he needs to stay under lock and key, like the dangerous animal he is, for his entire life. And not "life" in any court defined legal sense. Or, failing that he should be euthanized, executed, killed. Call it what you will and heap me with your scorn but those are the only two solutions I see for a problem individual who has failed to understand and abide by the most common and obvious forms of decency... the respect for an individual human life over whom you have such power.
If the mother of the boy is to be punished then I say punish the father as well and more severely. It is the father's role to instill proper moral values in a growing boy.
Of course, the court system is not designed to keep 13 year olds convicted of first degree murder behind bars for their entire natural life. Nor is the system prepared to execute such a miscreant. Nor, and I consider this most unfortunate of all, is the system prepared to hold the parents of the boy responsible for their abject failure.
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cariad
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posted on January 26, 2001 11:14:24 AM
[i]Well, it appears to be a barbaric attack by a child with mental
problems which has been handled in the same barbaric manner by
Florida law enforcement and legal authorities who should know
better.[/i]
And just how was this handled in a "barbaric" manner by law enforcement and legal authorities??
Oh, wait, I see, he's just a poor, poor victim of WWF, his mother, the world.......he shouldn't be punished. Yanno, not everyone who commits a violent act or murder is mentally ill....it's just easier and less frightening for some people to believe that.
cariad
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HJW
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posted on January 26, 2001 11:28:26 AM
It's clear that many of you don't believe
that rehabilitation is possible in this case.
Question;
Do you believe that he was a born killer?
Helen
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