posted on June 3, 2004 10:21:44 AM new
reamond said,
You can pay through Paypal with a credit card and do the charge back through your credit card. If Paypal takes any action against you due to the charge back, just notify your credit card company and they'll warn Paypal.
//////////////////////////////
is this official??
then why even comply with paypal policy such as file complaint within 30 days??
-sig file -------we eat to live,not live to eat.
Benjamin Franklin
posted on June 3, 2004 10:27:37 AM new
I don't feel like re-reading this whole thread and maybe this has already been said.
Anyway, since the buyer paid with a money order, he can't do a credit card chargeback or anything with PayPal.
I wonder if he has any recourse through the post office. It's been posted here before that regardless of the method used to pay, the PO will investigate cases of fraud.
Just a thought...
Lucy
Edited because I haven't had enough coffee yet today.
[ edited by OhMsLucy on Jun 3, 2004 10:29 AM ]
posted on June 3, 2004 11:24:24 AM new
OHmslucy.
you need to read enough to post your comments.
The buyer has agreed to taking the 2 items plus 175 dollars refund from the seller.
I would not run to the post office and scream i have been defrauded??would you??
-sig file -------we eat to live,not live to eat.
Benjamin Franklin
posted on June 3, 2004 03:36:31 PM newthen why even comply with paypal policy such as file complaint within 30 days??
Paypal has to comply with the rules of the credit card companies or they will drop Paypal. Paypal can not punish the cardholder for exercising their rights under the card member agreement.
Paypal is no different than grocery store or a gas station that accepts credit cards. You abide by the CC company rules or they will drop you.
posted on June 5, 2004 06:21:22 AM new
Try filing with a Small Claims Court System. I'm sure where you should file, but I believe you'd have to file in the seller's state. Nobody wants to be bothered with a trial, but this seller should not walk away with $400.
Also try going to: http://www.thelaw.com . Go to the small claims message board. They have several posts regarding ebay fraud. You may want to post your problem on their message board.
[ edited by dst1 on Jun 5, 2004 06:27 AM ]
posted on June 5, 2004 07:54:48 AM new
if you only read the first message,the buyer has agreed to accept the 2 items plus a 175 dollars refund,so how is she going to appeal to the small claims court or file complaint with USPS fraud investigation??
She will have to file a report with USPS saying she is due 175 dollars (not 575-175 dollars) as she has the 2 items in possession),and i am not sure this is a case of fraud??
same with small claims court,the amount involved is not 575 or 400,it is 175 dollars.
2 pieces of evidence will be produced-the final auction result from ebay which said final bid price is 575,and a copy of electronic email from seller saying i agree to refund 175 if you kiss my ass first!!
As long as she has the 2 items in her possession (and she said she does not want to spend another 50 dollars shipping them back),the dispute is 175,not 400 or 575.
And the seller can easily turn around and said,the items are in great condition,see the photos i showed on ebay?? and she damaged the items while she has them in her possession.
she is better off leaving positive feedback,get her 175 and move on.
-sig file -------we eat to live,not live to eat.
Benjamin Franklin
[ edited by stopwhining on Jun 5, 2004 08:31 AM ]
posted on June 5, 2004 08:53:34 AM new
"Lose a lot and you remember the experience for a long, long time. Lose a little and it's soon forgotten." Get on with your life and only use your plastic when purchasing e-Bay items - no exceptions!
posted on June 6, 2004 09:04:51 AM new
May I suggest that you check w/ UPS and make sure the seller hasn't filed a claim w/ them indicating the item was broken in transit.... He may be recouping some funds from them and you as the receiver MAY be able to catch him in something there.... Good luck.
posted on June 6, 2004 09:55:53 AM new
USPS insurance claim has to be signed by both buyer and seller,no way can seller collect money without having buyer sign her name on the form.
also seller needs to show up at the post office with signed form,original carton and broken pieces.
the pieces are still with the buyer.
PS.the pieces are not broken,they have been repaired before they were sold.
-sig file -------we eat to live,not live to eat.
Benjamin Franklin
posted on June 6, 2004 10:21:01 AM new
That's true of USPS, but not UPS. I was under the impression the item was shipped via UPS and they do not always pick items up, require them to be seen, etc.
I had a buyer that I had shipped something to and double boxed, etc...it was just under $100, but old and valuable. When he told me it arrived broken, I did not believe him. My gut was just telling me something, so I called UPS to file the claim (What else could I do? He wanted his money back...) and I TOLD THEM CLEARLY that I did not believe the item was broken and would they be inspecting it.
They do not inspect for claims under $100 NORMALLY and they wouldn't do anything about it.....regardless of my opinion/feelings.
I begged them to let me have the guy take it to an office or something, oh no..... I could have had the guy mail it back to me, but I figured, then he WOULD break it... I don't know. I didn't know what to do and was mad at UPS for NOT investigating it.... AND, because I have an account w/ them, they have NO contact with receiver on a "normal" basis. That is not to say they couldn't randomly check..... SO, I just wonder in this case.... did the seller get a little money back himself and PERHAPS that could be used to nail the guy.
posted on June 6, 2004 10:29:55 AM new
fully realizing that i am contributing NOTHING OF SUBSTANCE to this thread, i still want to ask the question[S] that caused me to come back to this situation, every time i see it bumped.
--------------
you said:
"Sent photos & email to seller. Told him, I could understand that a novice may not have noticed the repairs. Said, we would either send the item back for full refund including SHI both ways <or> would accept a partial refund of $225 & keep repaired pieces."
------------------
[1] did you email seller: "I could understand a novice..not noticing,... etc.?"
and then the next logical questn:
[2] why would you do that?
[3] why would you be willing to prostitute your self to the tune of $300?
[4] ANOTHER WAY TO STATE NBR. 3, why, in the face of brash misrepresentation and apparent fraud, were you willing to cave..in fact, you are probably the first i have ever read about 'laying down so you could get screwed' [forgive the obscene analogy] ...but it seems to me, that you obviated your rights
when you laid down, i.e., told the seller you were okay with a price reflective of the items's damage. QUESTION: why would you initiate this?
[5] granted hindsight is 20/20, BUTTTTT,
"there seems to be more here than meets the eye." as someone earlier posted, there appears to be more here...QUESTION...is there???
--------------------------
jmo, myoldtoy
posted on June 6, 2004 11:00:47 AM new
it does not matter whether it is UPS or USPS,for that kind of money,it has to be physically examined by the claims investigator or postal clerk/
-sig file -------we eat to live,not live to eat.
Benjamin Franklin
posted on June 6, 2004 08:37:20 PM new
All,
I thought I'd jump in here.
1st - I did not mention all of the back & forth emails that went on, before we agreed to the partial refund. It became apparant that we were not dealing with a honest seller & if we were to return the pieces, that we would probably not see any refund at all. By the time we added the extra $50 shipping that we would have probably incurred, we figured $175 was better than nothing. Then we would have been out almost $575 with nothing to show for it. Yes, we could have then pursued that, but what a hastle!
Now, for an update. I have not been able to contact the seller by phone - fast busy signals every time I try. eBay has sent me a lot of emails, but they still claim that there is not enough evidence. I have forwarded all of this seller's emails to ebay, and continue to pursue that route.
I must admit that I am very disappointed in eBay's lack of help in this situation. We doubt that we will see any money from this guy.
No, I didn't really use the exact terms - novice buyer (although I felt like it) Here is the text that I sent him:
"Both the jar and pedestal arrived intact and were well packed. Unfortunately, both pieces have been repaired. The jardinière shows the most repair. The back of the jardinière very obvious, as it is a different color and texture. The fluted lip also shows repair. The interior of the jardinière has been painted and is done in a matt finish, which should be glazed and glossy. The jardinière has crazing, but cannot be felt, as it is completely covered with the matt or dull finish. It should be glass like and shiny. The pedestal has a repair to the top portion and is also completely sprayed to match the jardinière.
Attached are photos to illustrate.
As you know, a repaired piece does not have the value as an undamaged piece. As you know, I emailed to inquire if this piece was repaired. I see two ways of resolving this. One would be for me to return the piece for a full refund, including postage both ways. The second option would be for a partial refund. I hope we can come to a solution." After this, several emails were exchanged, in an attempt to negotiate a settlement.
So, that's where it stands right now. I have not yet left the appropriate feedback for this guy. I'm waiting & hoping that maybe we can recover the money. I will continue to try to contact him & eBay this week. I do have a day job & there is a 3 hour time difference to contact him on the east coast. I'm not going to call at "unreasonable hours".
There really is not more than meets the eye on this one.
posted on June 7, 2004 05:31:51 AM new
You did the right thing,get the 175 and resell them ,you may even make some money or recoup the shipping fee.
Returning the items will just open up another can of worms.
-sig file -------we eat to live,not live to eat.
Benjamin Franklin
posted on June 17, 2004 07:53:07 PM new
I thought I'd post an update. Square Trade did nothing. I probably sent eBay 5-10 emails regarding this seller in the last 3 weeks. I don't know if they did anything or not, due to "Privacy" act, they would not disclose anything.
I also filed a Fraud claim using eBay's claim form & the Buyer protection claim.
"When suspicious activity is reported, we investigate and take action
with accounts that violate our policies. Such action may include issuing an educational alert, a temporary suspension, an indefinite suspension
or terminating the membership. At this time I would like to assure you
that appropriate action has been taken in this situation. Due to privacy concerns, I am unable to disclose the details of any action taken.
However, I would like to thank you for your report."
Using the Fraud report forum, the seller is contacted, and you both use this forum as an negotiating tool. Seller repeated that he "generously offered us a $175 refund if we would leave positive feedback."
Using the Fraud alert board: "My final offer was: send the $175.00 to us by Saturday June 19, 2004 and you have our word, that we will not post any feedback for you. No feedback is the best that we can do. We do not consider this a positive experience and can not in good conscience leave positive feedback. So, as a compromise, if we receive the refund this week, we will refrain from posting any feedback.-- We stand by our offer. Send refund with no more hastles and no feedback at all."
So he emails us 6/16- (not through the Fraud alert) "I will take you at your word and send 175.00 to get this over with." & claims he sent a check. We'll see. I guess the moral of the story is persistence pays off (if the check arrives). Whether eBay played any part in this - who knows? But at least we didn't give up.
BTW - We found out from the USPS that we could file a claim since we had used a USPS money order. That would have been the next step.
Yes - this SOB deserves negative feedback & suspension, but hopefully we will recover $175. I will not neg him unless the check doesn't arrive or is no good.
This has been an ongoing hastle since the beginning of May & hopefully an end is in sight.
