posted on February 18, 2001 06:32:17 PM new
snowyegret I have seen that page (and most others on the internet) about Atkins. There is much negative information. I am lucky to be a scientific information specialist who has easy access to most of the original literature cited in that and other web sites, and had the opportunity to do my own research because I didn't want my kidneys to explode or another horrible fate to befall me.
Fortunately, after digging a little deeper I came to believe there is no substance to the claims that ketogenic diets are harmful -- here's a site that I think has a better take on the subject:
And after eating this way for many months, I can attest to the fact that my health is much better after cutting out processed sugar and flour -- I DO eat some grains, many vegetables, a few fruits, and lots of meats -- all the good stuff. I just don't eat the crud any more. Many physicians are now supporting low-carb diets for diabetes, heart problems, etc.
And if quitting smoking is another great side effect, that's even better. And yes smoking outside in Indiana in the winter is not fun!
posted on February 18, 2001 07:16:49 PM new
Hi xellil, I'm glad it's working so well for you. Different diets work differently for people. I posted that link because there are potential problems with that diet for someone with some medical problems, and mybidness posted that her neurologist has diagnosed her with "small strokes". Depending on the cause of the TIAs, a high protein and fat diet should be reported to her doc, who could monitor changes in her blood chemistry. I'm approaching this from a fairly good understanding of the pathophysiology of ketosis. Most physicians recommend Low Fat salt restricted diets for cardiac/atherosclerosis. My husband works with many diabetics, and the physicians in Philly are focusing more on the glycemic index for diabetics. We used that in my care plan, and it has worked very well.
I was in severe ketosis for a long time due to illness, and in my work as a RN, see the effects of acidosis all the time. I have seen the ketogenic diet used for sz control in young kids. I'd like to see some more work done on that, as the anticonvulsants have such side effects. It would be great to replace meds with diet for that. And we're seeing an absolute explosion of diabetics now.
But as I said, different diets work well. I have eaten vegan for almost 9 years, and I'll take the drawback of having a hard time keeping my weight up, and taking vitamin supplements vs. ending up in the hospital with an exacerbation of what I have. But for some, that diet wouldn't work. Making it easier to quit smoking would be a wonderful side effect, I wish !!!
Here's my quit smoking stash... I've already made myself sick as a dog with the bag of Chewy Hot Tamales... super-sized no less. UGGGHHHH! My tummy hurts. Well, I didn't make the cold turkey but I've had 16 cigarettes today - down from my two pack 40 a day habit so I'm kinda o.k. with that. I switched to the regulars and they sure taste like crap... I guess that's why I only had 16 of them. I still think I can make it to join everyone on the March 01st. Besides, my b'day is the 2nd - so that'd be a very good b'day gift to give myself.
I'll ask the doctor about Atkins or any other ideas and definitely about the Zyban. That sounds like it might help and I'm pretty sure our insurance would cover it. Besides, if I have more days like today I'll need an anti-depressant.
Here's the rant you were looking for Enchanted I turned my back for one minute to go move some inventory and when I came back in my hubby had done me a "favor" and tore my computer apart. It has been making a whirring sound lately so he had to replace a blower. Anyway, he decided that while he was at it he would encourage my stop smoking quest by cleaning the nicotine out of my computer. PLEASE!!! On my BUSIEST auction day??? It made me so mad I went and smoked a cigarette.
Sounds like we have more smokers joining the smoke out ---- too cool!
LotsafuzzI've tried one an hour before but I always lose track of the time and blow it... I don't have the discipline, I guess.
Rocker Four a day isn't bad at all. It may seem like a step in the wrong direction but it's still a great achievement. I think the psyche part is the toughest on me too. I hate the withdrawals but those are gone in just a week or so. The hardest part is when I'm pre-occupied and I reach for one and it's not there. I literally panic... hyperventilate. You said it though I don't wanna be a slave to it anymore. That's exactly how it feels and it just infuriates me with myself to know that I'm letting cigarettes have the control...
You mentioned praying to your dad for help... I can't remember exactly how you said it... but, I do believe (know) that our loved ones can help us from the other side. No doubt. So, if it seems like he's helping you then I think you can bank on it. They not only can help us with our problems from the other side but it brings them great joy to do so... Take whatever comfort and strength you can find there... and your dad will be comforted and stronger for it as well.
Getting off cigarettes is going to be one of the biggest challenges of our lives - but it'll also become one of the greatest accomplishments of our lives too. I'm so happy that I'm not standing alone in this thread... Sometimes people really do need to lean on each other.
posted on February 19, 2001 06:09:46 AM new
snowyegret you are right -- it's always good to check with a doctor before doing anything drastic with a diet. There are several low-carb diets that don't put you into ketosis (my hubby is low-carbing but not in ketosis) if being in ketosis might not be the best thing. I don't know if they would stop ciggie cravings, though.
I would LOVE to smoke only 4 a day! And I think dropping to 16 from 40 is also a great accomplishment (hot tamales are like potato chips, you sure can't eat just one)
I might give Zyban another try, since so many folks have had good luck with it -- that's encouraging.
posted on February 19, 2001 06:19:58 AM new
on the Zyban - 6 of us took it at the same time and 5 of us quit. It was marvelous how it removed all cravings. I was addicted to a point that I could not go 5 hours without a cig. The kind of smoker that no one thinks will ever quit, and that included me and then POOF.
The drug was awful though. No cravings, just non stop kind of manic happy thoughts. I thought for sure when I quit taking it I would go right to the store for cigarettes but I have not had another craving since.
The thing with the insurance is if your doctor prescribed "Zyban" they will not pay, but if the [prescribe "Wellbutrin" (same drug) for "depression" then the insurance picks it up. It does not matter the cost though because next to the price of smoking it's a joke. My husband and I together smoked 4 pks a day - I mean the money saved is extreme. The cost of the drug is a joke in comparison.
posted on February 19, 2001 03:39:41 PM new
My complete sympathy to your cause. My mom died of cancer that spread all through her bones. She smoked 3 packs a day of Camels.
My Dad smoked a couple a day of PallMells.
He quite after his first heart attack in his 50's and lived to 74.
I have asthma very bad so I was rarely able to see my mother. We would have to meet at my Aunt's house because even 20 minutes in my Mom's house would leave me up that night unable to breath.
I worked in a shop and got put in a small room with a fellow who chain smoked. After 3 days I knew I could not take it. I offered him $1,000 US to quit but he refused. Said his wife and daughter both smoked and the only way he could quit would be to leave them. I refrained from saying to go for it. I just had to quit the job.
I know it is hard - my Mom tried so many times. Do what you need to do..
posted on February 19, 2001 09:47:28 PM new
You guys are doing so well! I've been at it on my own for about a month. I'm "stuck" on one of my goals ~ my "pack a week" promise. Rather than a pack a day, I promised myself that I would only buy a pack a week. I did awesome at first. (1)No smoking in the house(I never did) ~ I feel for you guys who smoke while you're at the computer ~ that must be rough! (2)No more smoking in front of the kids. (3)I threw away all of my lighters so I have to search for matches(not a huge deterrent but any little bit helps!).(4)Lots of brushing my teeth and Listerine Fresh Burst!
My most recent "trick" (discovered this afternoon) is how nasty cigs taste after cleaning. This may sound nuts but after inhaling bleach trying to get the bathroom tile clean, I went for a smoke break. It was repulsive! The best part is that it lasted for hours! Has anyone else found this? Give it a shot ~ if it doesn't have the same effect on you, at least you'll have a clean bathroom!
posted on February 19, 2001 10:13:06 PM new Mybiddness Thank you - that was VERY sweet what you said about my Dad and our loved ones helping us. I believe (know) you are right too.
AND - that photo of all your candy made me LMAO!!! That is EXACTLY what my kitchen and computer desk look like... plus my coat pockets are filled with Super Bubble...ya know, for when I leave the house. LOL!!
I'm very proud of you! From 40 down to 16 is really amazing!!!
Hey I just realized there are only 28 days this month... March 1 is closer than I'd expected!!! LOL!! Well - that is GOOD for us. I already threw out my ashtray. (However, that did not stop me from using a bowl of water. LOL Oh ya wanna get grossed out, try THAT as an ashtray for a while. EW EW EW!!)
posted on February 19, 2001 10:21:25 PM new
PS: chepistar I had the same goal: one pack a week. (Well I blew that already LOL!)
But wanna hear something cool? With the money I did put aside that I would've spent smoking the last five days, I was able to get Italian dinner delivered in tonight for me AND my roommate, and do my laundry, and still have a few bucks left over... not bad huh? Ya know this quitting thing might not be so bad cha-ching! $$$$$
posted on February 20, 2001 02:59:39 AM new
You guys' are doing great. I am so proud of you. I know only too well how hard it is to cut back and stop smoking.
Mybid, you are doing really well, only 16 a day is wonderful. I had to stop fullstop because if I had a packet of smokes I could not stop myself from smoking them until they were all gone. I think it was like a glitch in my brain that told me to smoke cause the packet was there with some still in it. Hahaha
We are going to celebrate your birthday in great style and it will be a NON smoking party. I just know that you can do it, we will be with you all the way.
Rocker, I can understand why you threw your ashtray out, but a bowl with water. LOL
chepistar, I know that taste, it is disgusting isn't it...
I can remember doing the same thing, when I was cleaning the bathroom and decided to have a break for a while. I remember lighting up and yuk what a taste. Mind you I also remember finishing the smoke and then complaining to hubby about the terrible taste in my mouth. Cleaning my teeth did not help either, if I remember correctly it made it worse. LOL
Now the best thing about not smoking, besides cleaner lungs and I don't have that smokers smell anymore......I have more money to buy the things I love. Last week I bought 2 beautiful old China Tea Sets.
Now I have to lose the extra weight that seems to have found it's way to the rear end. No more Tim Tams for me.
posted on February 20, 2001 05:53:09 AM new
I got the drugs! My doctor gave me samples of the Wellbutrin and a prescription to fill if I do well on it! Yesterday was a day from hell. I talked to my doctor about my test results of last week. Unfortunately, she doesn't use the same sterile, clinical kind of language my neurologist does. She says stuff like "loss of white matter in the brain." Geeeeez, I don't wanna hear that crap. I like my white matter and I wanna keep it... So by the time I left her office I was mad/sad as hell and spent the day either pissed or crying... Thankfully, I woke up this a.m. ready to face the world again. (hello world)
I had 23 cigarettes yesterday. I would have had more but it's hard to smoke with the covers over your head! LOL Seriously, I'm sure I'll do MUCH better today. I feel much stronger...
Gravid Thanks for sharing that. Someone else mentioned this and it's true - so many of us have lost a parent or loved one to cigarettes that it's mind boggling. Every time I read about yet another person losing their life to cigarettes it helps to reaffirm my decision to quit. So, I really appreciate you and Meya and everyone else who has shared your losses - and your successes too!
Rocker I love the idea of saving the $$ and spending it on something fun. Every little bit of extra motivation helps. I haven't thrown my ashtrays out yet. Maybe today's the day for that step. BTW, I tried the twizzlers... bleeeeccchhh! Not only do they taste awful they're hard as hell to light.
Chepistar It sounds like you're well on your way to quitting. I haven't tried the cleaning trick - but then that would mean I would have to spend some quality time cleaning my bathrooms....eeeeewww! Maybe I'll use my extra $$ to hire a cleaning lady. Not paranoid anywhere else but here!
posted on February 20, 2001 05:51:16 PM new MyBiddness Guess what!! I got the drugs too!!! LOL!!! I couldn't wait to tell you this today... I wrongly assumed I couldn't go on Zyban cos I'm already on Effexor...so anyway I went to see my doctor today and we discussed the whole thing, and he said it's ok and gave me a script for Zyban too!!! (By the way, he said Wellbutrin and Zyban are EXACTLY the same thing, just differently named and marketed.) He said if I do get any bad side effects from being on both meds to just stop the Zyban, no big deal. I am filling the script tomorrow and starting right away, cos he also told me it's best to be on the Zyban 5 to 7 days first so it starts to kick in by the time you quit smoking. He also said Zyban/Wellbutrin may help with the NOT gaining weight part! I am really psyched about this cos I am HOPING this will finally work! And it is SO different having all YOU guys here to work on this with. I never would've asked my doctor about Zyban if it weren't for you guys... VeryModern, MyBid, everyone who suggested it.
MyBidness what does the white matter thing mean? Are you okay? I'm sorry you had a bad day.
But stop lighting up those Twizzlers!! (YOU CRACK ME UP!)
posted on February 20, 2001 07:56:57 PM new
Hi Rocker Stop lighting up the twizzlers? LOL You gotta be jokin! Those things taste so nasty I know you don't think I'm gonna chew on one!
So, you got the drugs too? Yippeeee! I think that'll be a big help getting over the final hurdle. I was a little concerned about trading one addiction for another but my doctor pointed out that the Zyban is about a thousand times easier to get off of then cigarettes and a lot less harmful... so, I'M IN BABY - I'M IN!!!! LOL
I did pretty good today but I've noticed that I can go for hours without a cigarette and then chain smoke 2 or 3 in a row. It's like I'm refueling or something. If I can get a grip on that then I should be able to keep knocking my #'s down. I've had 11 today but I'm having a pretty good sized nicotine fit right now... so, I may end the day at 12. I've decided to keep with the idea of isolating areas that I can smoke in - to help break those habits but I'm also trying to limit the # I smoke when I'm in a "free smoking zone." Hey, it's my plan - I can make stuff up as I go along, right?
Anyway, today was much better all around. My sweet hubby helped me get outta my funk from the doc visit... He's so good about that kind of thing. I know my memory gaps must annoy the hell out of him sometimes. But, he never (well seldom) lets on... The doctor's references to my "losing white matter" was just her kinda no holds barred way of talking about the MRI results... they don't really know what it means except that it "may" mean this and it "may" mean that... Very frustrating - but I think we all have something that bites our butt every day... so, that's mine.
That just makes it all the more important that I really make it off the cigarettes this time. So, how'd you do today Rocker Does it seem like it's getting easier? It must be great to be down to a few a day.
Nettak or anyone else that's quit - How long were you off of the cigarettes before you quit wanting one when you first woke up in the a.m.? I think that'll be my toughest one to break.
BTW, who else besides Rocker and myself is still on quitting mode???? Not paranoid anywhere else but here!
posted on February 20, 2001 08:56:03 PM new Mybiddness My buddy, you are doing so great!! I am NOT. I was doing so good for a little while, I was down to 2 a day, but once I went back up to 4, I went up more and more. I hate to dissapoint you, I won't even tell you how many I smoked today. (No not a pack again, but um MORE than 4.)
The way you are cutting down is GREAT!! I guess what I've been doing is cutting UP.
Time for me to make more plans again like YOU'VE been doing. Maybe I will also NOT smoke at the computer. (That's a biggie.) And I will not let myself have more than 4 tomorrow. And I will go back down from there.
MARCH 1 IS STILL MY QUIT DATE!!!!!
I am picking up my Zyban prescription tomorrow and sticking to our plan.
Sheeeesh. Ya know, now that I don't have my old denial, the GUILT of lighting up is killing me. LOL! Enough to make ya not enjoy the damn cig anyway!
posted on February 20, 2001 09:28:55 PM newRocker LOL, Talk about feeling guilty. I just back in from having a smoke. (Cringe) Geeez, you're in here braggin on me and I'm in the kitchen smoking like a fiend! LOL
Don't be so hard on yourself... we're moving in the right direction. One day at a time, right? I think you're the one who said something about us not starting this over night and not being able to end it over night either... well, you said something along those lines. Anyway, it's true.
I read something a few days ago on one of the links posted here that was all about how the tobacco companies won't even admit in writing as to all the ingredients that are actually in cigarettes. If we weren't already motivated enough to quit - just think about that... what the hell are they putting in these things? They already admit to all kinds of poison, so what could be SO BAD that they refuse to reveal it? That's just another good reason to quit. How dare they lace cigarettes with ingredients that are so controversial that they won't even admit to what it is - and then add nicotine to make sure we stay hooked. And every time we buy another pack of cigarettes we're lining their pockets. I don't like to be taken advantage of... much less to PAY for it!
Don't get me riled up... I may be forced to chew on a twizzler... Not paranoid anywhere else but here!
posted on February 21, 2001 12:06:49 AM new
Hi Rocker and Mybid, I am so proud of you two. So what if you have the occasional relapse, who cares, it can happen at anytime and this is early days yet.
You get those scripts filled, take the drugs and do anything that may help you along the way. (geez if my kids' ever heard me say those words they would choke, I am so anti drugs that they would never believe that their own Mother could ever say such a thing.) LOL
Mybid, I never had the problem of wanting to smoke in the mornings, my worst time was and to a certain extent still is, night time. I craved smokes at night, maybe it is because I am a late night person....
My husband says he still craves a smoke some mornings, even after 4 months. He always had at least 3 smokes and equal cups of coffee of a morning before he left the house, so I guess it has been harder on him than me. He was a heavier smoker than I was as well.
You know that we found out my husband was sick after he stopped smoking, and that the smokes actually covered his illness for god knows how long. It is like we have had a reality check.
Almost like someone is giving us another chance. We intend to grab that chance with both hands and we want to live to be old enough to be a nighmare to our kids' LOL We also want to be healthy as we reach our dotage........
Okay now I know that you are well on the way to doing this, MARCH 1 is NS day. (No Smoking Day) We are with you all the way.
posted on February 21, 2001 03:51:01 AM new
I'm still in on the March 1st quit date. I've been taking Zyban for a week now. Ive noticed that my mouth is very dry.(I can live with that) Another thing that I've noticed is that the smell of cigarette smoke is nasty to me. I'm still smoking only now I notice that "smell" all the non-smokers complain about. Maybe that's how it will help me when I actually quit. I just hope I don't turn into one of those "converts" that preaches to everyone on the sins of smoking.
Apparently everyone has a quit story they like to tell...but yesterday a woman got my goat. I was smoking a cigarette outside of a store. This complete stranger walks up to me and strikes up a conversation about smoking. I told her I've tried to quit many times but that this time I think I'll have some success. This woman looked to be in her early to mid-forties. She told me that she was the wrong person to tell about how hard it is to quit. She said that she quit a 3 pack a day habit 21 years ago cold turkey no problem. Does she really want me to believe that in her teens she had a 3 pack a day habit??? I would have been more impressed if she said she kicked a 3 cigarette a day habit after 21 years of smoking. Do you get what I'm saying? Anyway.... March 1st.... hooray for us!
[ edited by bootsnana on Feb 21, 2001 03:58 AM ]
posted on February 21, 2001 07:56:49 AM new
Hi Nettakwe want to live to be old enough to be a nighmare to our kids' LOL
Another good reason to quit!
Bootsnana I'm glad to see you're still with us. LOL about the reformed smoker preaching the "sins" of smoking. I haven't noticed any side effects of the Zyban/Wellbutrin yet. But I've just started taking it.
Today should be easy for me. I'll be spending most of the day out in the real "non-smoking" zones...seeing my dentist, etc.
My goal today is to limit myself to ten cigarettes. It's time to get serious about cutting back the #.
posted on February 21, 2001 09:05:08 AM new
you guys are doing great, keep going! motivation is so important in kicking this.
Hi nettak, sorry I missed the actual hour of the birthday bash a few days ago. (fell asleep, dead tired but I was there in spirit)
yep it's supposed to be cutting d-o-w-n, DOWN, not UP!
try a roll of lifesavers to help with the drymouth thing, regular fruit style or small fruit candies. Something to keep the mouth moist.
NO smoking at the computer - I've just been appointed the Minister of Etiquette in the new Church of Chatboard Wisdom in another thread here, so this is my first pronouncement. People participating in quitting smoking threads are not allowed to smoke at the computer! Dispensations and forgiveness is available ... at a price LOL.
posted on February 21, 2001 02:14:05 PM new nettak My mate Thank you so much for helping us out here with your support!
MyBidness Don't be so hard on yourself... we're moving in the right direction. One day at a time, right? I think you're the one who said something about us not starting this over night and not being able to end it over night either...
Thanks pal you are right I did say that {{{HUGS}}}
enchanted
Thank you for your support too
BUT:
1. yep it's supposed to be cutting d-o-w-n, DOWN, not UP!
2. NO smoking at the computer
3. this is my first pronouncement. People participating in quitting smoking threads are not allowed to smoke at the computer!
I am now going to take this opportunity to have a temper tantrum:
DON'T TELL ME WHAT TO DO WE ALL MAKE OUR OWN RULES HERE AND GO AT OUR OWN PACE AND IF I MAKE MY RULES I CAN BREAK EM TOO AND I SAID I AM QUITTING MARCH 1 DAMMIT AND YOU'RE NOT THE BOSSA ME I'M THE BOSSA ME AND I AM A LEO AND CANNOT BE TOLD WHAT TO DO I HAVE TO DO IT MY OWN WAY!!! (Don't get me riled up now!)
Whew I feel much better.
Also - No one can EVER torture me as much as I can torture myself, trust me on this one.
posted on February 21, 2001 04:14:50 PM newpeeking my head around the corner...
heck, I'm not even the boss of ME, Rocker. It was just a joke about the pronouncement thing... I didn't think anybody would even listen to me, I don't think I'd listen to the Minister of Etiquette of the Church of Chatboard Wisdom.
posted on February 21, 2001 10:07:19 PM new
Ummmm... Enchanted! our ever respected Minister of Etiquette of the Church of Chatboard Wisdom. I think Rocker is saying she wants to smoke at the computer...
Rocker I hope you're feeling better. LOL Your temper tantrum reminds me of the ones I used to have with my step-dad...
Him: Go to your room
Me: You ain't my daddy
Repeat that about ten times..
What we are both going through are what I believe to be the beginning signs of what is known as "everyonegetthehellawayfrommecauseallIwannadoissmokeNOW! Very common to new non-smokers. That's what we are... almost non-smokers! See Rocker You're just getting a little testy because we are sooooo close to being non-smokers that we're scaring the hell out of us. Me. I chewed my own arm clear to the bone in a nicotine fit today. Well, I know I broke skin anyway.
Here's the conversation going on in my head:
The part of "me" is to be read in Martha Stewart voice. The part of "alter me" is in a Chris Rock voice.
Me: We HAVE to quit smoking.
Alter Me: What the hell do you mean we're quittin smokin. You quit smokin, I like to smoke... I ain't quittin.
Me: No, we really, really have to quit! This is serious! Cigarettes are very dangerous!
Alter Me: You are one crazy #*!@ if you think I'm quittin. I told you I like to smoke and I AIN'T QUITTIN!
Me: Now, now, you just don't understand. We've got to quit....
blah, blah, blah repeat.
That's where I am today. I had 18 cigarettes today. Not as good as I shot for but about half my normal... So, I'd say half of me is winning. And, the other half I'm wearing down one day at a time.
Looking for a better day for all of us almost non-smokers tomorrow!
edited cause UBB flubbed again
Not paranoid anywhere else but here!
[ edited by mybiddness on Feb 21, 2001 10:08 PM ]
posted on February 22, 2001 04:19:34 AM newpeeking my head back in....
is it safe to come back in the room now?
I'm still here cheering you on Rocker and mybiddness, you got my support all the way. I only quit when the doc told me I had to, about two years ago, basically the heart and lungs were gasping for air and it was quit or pay the consequences. The graduated patch system helped me a lot but each person is different.
posted on February 22, 2001 06:55:09 AM new Rocker I'm relieved to see I'm not the only one with an "alter me." LOL Sometimes "Alter me" can be SO LOUD!
Good luck today for all the new - almost - non-smokers! And, enchanted I'm glad to know another person who gave em up. Sometimes I wonder if it's really possible.
posted on February 22, 2001 07:58:29 AM new
it's VERY possible ...well, ok, I still cheat under times of extreme stress... but I only smoke about 1 cigarette in a month or two, so I'm pretty happy with that low amount. I sure feel better, I can breate now without feeling like I'm gasping under water for air.
For me it helped that my husband didn't smoke, he had quit years ago so if I wanted to smoke I was considerate and went outside the house. That was pretty inconvenient and helped me associate "not smoking" with being inside the house.
Well, I didn't make the cold turkey but I've had 16 cigarettes today - down from my two pack 40 a day habit so I'm kinda o.k. with that. I switched to the regulars and they sure taste like crap... I guess that's why I only had 16 of them. I still think I can make it to join everyone on the March 01st. Besides, my b'day is the 2nd - so that'd be a very good b'day gift to give myself.
LOL!! Well - that is GOOD for us. I already threw out my ashtray. (However, that did not stop me from using a bowl of water. LOL Oh ya wanna get grossed out, try THAT as an ashtray for a while. EW EW EW!!)
LOL 
