posted on January 31, 2006 08:36:21 PM new
You could certainly ask for additional officer but it won't guarantee that the department will do so. Staffing is always a concern and they may feel 2 officers are enough. You may ask, however, for a command sergeant or a department investigator.
Take written notes as to what he says about the reason for the investigation or how this came about. He has to be basing this on some information. And ask for copies of any documents or complaints he may have. Make sure you date and sign your notes.
Start tonight. Just get a 3-ring binder and put down what transpired today and what time. If he gave you a business card, staple it to the paper. Then start the next day on a new page. Keep written logs.
Write down everyone that was present, what was done and what was said. It sounds complicated but its not. You may need those notes in the future and a court generally considers a diary at the time of the event more than a he said/she said situation. I don't think it will come to that but notes are always good.
Have your copies of your purchase available tomorrow. Don't let them take them but you can give them copies (they may already have them through DMV).
Either there is an error and it will be settled to your advantage (as stressful as this must be) or you're going to be looking at the dealership for compensation. If its a sizeable sum, small claims court won't be sufficient and maybe the dealership won't let it get to the point.
I wish you the best for tomorrow!
I hope this helped you understand a little of the process. Especially how a vehicle can be registered and titled and still be stolen. It can and does happen. But that's what happens when govermental agencies don't talk to each other or have a power struggle.
Take care of that baby, get some sleep, and always ask questions of the investigators if you don't understand.
posted on January 31, 2006 08:58:09 PM new
Cherachel...The one thing you want to remember is that this person is an employee of a private organization, drawing a paycheck to do what his superiors tell him to do. He IS NOT a police officer, an officer of the court, or any other type of individual charged with enforcement of the law. He has no more legal standing than the kid who serves you a Big Mac at McDonalds, the clerk who boxes your groceries or the receptionist in his office who answers the phone. He may use the same bullying tactics as a private detective, a collection agency representative or a bail bondsman, but it's all BS. You are most certainly not interested in his straw grasping opinion. You need only concern yourself with the facts as they will appear in DMV records, NCIC files, dealership records and the police report. Don't let him bully or bluff you and don't give him any information or let him near the car. He can get whatever the police officer decides to give him. You might want to carefully double check the VIN# on the dash plate against what is printed on the registration certificate and title and make sure they are an EXACT match. If it was a typo by a dealer or a DMV employee, it could shorten a lengthy ordeal to a 10 minute trip to your local DMV office.
If Murphy's law is correct, everything East of the San Andreas Fault will slide into the Atlantic
posted on January 31, 2006 09:16:51 PM new
I would say that the car dealer who sold you this car would have to give you the money back that you payed for the car. The car dealer is responsible for the screw-up by not checking the VIN# when they bought or took the car on trade. The same thing happen to me several years ago when I sold a car to someone,when I checked the VIN# on the car it did not match the title. Our car lot had bought this car 3 years earlier from another car dealer and we didn't check the VIN# when we bought it. Anyway when I had the VIN# on the car run,it was a stolen car. The other car lot had to pay us for the car. If nothing else take it to court. I don't think a car lot has anyway of knowing if a car has been stolen if the numbers match the title,but a judge would still make them refund the money.
**********************************
Two men sit behind bars,one sees mud the other sees stars.
posted on January 31, 2006 09:32:44 PM new
I have no idea how automobile dealers in Florida are regulated, but I can tell you for sure, in California that dealer is ultimately responsible for ascertaining that any car he sells is free and clear of any incumbrances, civil or criminal. It would only take a couple of instances such as the OP described for a dealer to lose his license or be arrested. And checking through Carfax is especially important now. The latest trick the scammers are pulling now is buying flood totaled vehicles from the New Orleans area for a few bucks, cleaning them up and registering them in other states and auctioning them to dealers to sell to unsuspecting individuals. The Calif state insurance commissioner has issued an alert to this practice as they recently intercepted about a dozen of these vehicles in the L.A. area.
If Murphy's law is correct, everything East of the San Andreas Fault will slide into the Atlantic
posted on January 31, 2006 09:40:10 PM new
Unfortunately, that scam has been going on for decades. It's not just flood vehicles, but hail damaged vehicles in other states, stolen and recovered vehicles that get a salvage ranking.....Like I said earlier it's not even just salvage vehicles it can be cars considered lemons. Cars actually turned back into the manufacturer that are let loose again. Most states make it difficult to wash a title through now but its still possible.
posted on January 31, 2006 10:54:22 PM new
Be wary big time. Did you ever consider that this person may be fake and now knows you are at home with no husband with you at that time of day? Don't want to scare you that way but I would not open door to anyone or them again unless there is a marked police car and uniformed officer present and you call 911 to confirm. Sounds too bogus of a deal to be real. Keep safe above all else...
**************
Can't touch this! uh huh, uh huh.
posted on February 1, 2006 04:08:47 AM new
It sure sounds like a scam to me. But if it's not you still need to stand up for your rights. You do not have to forfeit YOUR free and clear property to someone unless ordered to do so by a court of law. Someone coming to your door and saying they are from the National Whatever doesn't not give them the right to take your property . I don't care if they come with the state militia, if they don't have a COURT ORDER giving them the authority to take your vehicle I wouldn't turn it over to them. What are the consequences if you refuse? Did they threaten you with consequences? Might be a good time to call a lawyer.
-------------------------------------
posted on February 1, 2006 04:50:50 AM new
I believe the OP admission that she'll be contacting her police department for assistance is already covering the possibility of anyone casing the joint while her husand is away.
A dash plate vehicle identificatio number (vin) and the paperwork may match but this doesn't address the confidential vehicle identification number.
The OP stated she had attempted to contact an attorney.
The insurance investigator will have to prove to the police what the problem is (he may be checking for the confidential identification number). Put the burden on the police department for establishing if its stolen or not. If it's stolen, the stolen vehicle would not be her property anymore. What documents does the Bureau's private investigator have?
To state "they can't take your property" is a little simplistic and not always true.
Yes, she should have legal advice if the vehicle is going to be confiscated or is confiscated but we don't know that is going to be the case. She doesn't know what the circumstances are.
There are plenty of variables at play here. Find out what the problem is first.
posted on February 1, 2006 05:37:11 AM new
toybuyer:
Thanks so much, you asnwered for me just right.
What does "OP" mean?
nothing happened yet this morning, but I promise to keep you posted.
I will videotape (and take notes) of everything. He did give me a business card.
I wanted to make a really long story short... me contacting police dept. finally confirmed that the police that the investigator had with him on his way to me (later again that day) was very real. The guy is not rude, even almost nice (I know it is in his best interest). I would like to get this torture over with and know the truth about my car. I need the title clear
when I go to sell it in the future.
[ edited by cherachael on Feb 1, 2006 05:42 AM ]
[ edited by cherachael on Feb 1, 2006 05:43 AM ]
posted on February 1, 2006 05:52:30 AM new
OP=Original Poster
In my book, they better be "nice". You're not a suspect.
I think everyone here that's posted has your personal safety and best interest in mind. I hope the vehicle is in the clear and the other vehicle you mention is the problem.
If everything is okay.....get something in writing from this guy so you don't have to jump through hoops in the future.
posted on February 1, 2006 06:12:32 AM new
I really would like to thank everyone who posted here very very much!
That's allot of good advice and support.
Baby is feeling better too.
Actually I was fortunate enough and one of the lawyers I contacted, (none knew anything about this type of thing), told me about a lawyer who might know something.
I will keep you posted!
.
BSO’S “OPERATION MONEY CAR” SLAMS BRAKES ON STOLEN CAR
CLONING RING
PIO Number: 05-6-23
BSO Case Number: BS05-01-1185
Date: Tuesday, June 21, 2005
Place of Occurrence: Nationwide
Victim(s):
�� United States of America
Suspect(s):
�� Mark Apicella, 6/24/76; William Aristeo, 3/5/68; Joseph Avino, 6/15/71; Charles Barone, 2/12/78 (AT LARGE);
Richard Bauer, 2/7/72; Steven Cutler, 6/18/60; Darren Fiske, 4/16/74 (AT LARGE); Richard Kenyon, 4/29/66;
Gregory King, 9/12/68; Keith Kordich, 4/11/72; Joseph Lefflbine, 12/8/70; Hector Muniz, 11/4/73; Eric Peters,
5/22/69; Anthony Sasso, 8/25/70; Mark Solomon, 8/13/61; Samuel Steer, 4/3/58; Robert Sullo, 9/28/64; Kurt
Tobin, 4/16/62; Miguel Vazquez, 1/2/71; Steve Vento, 4/20/68; Cornell Welds, 11/5/75 (AT LARGE); William
McLauglin, 8/29/63
Description of Incident:
“Operation Money Car,” a more than two-year-old Broward Sheriff’s Office undercover investigation into an auto theft and
VIN (Vehicle Identification Number) cloning ring, culminated yesterday with the arrest of 19 suspects wanted for
racketeering and dealing in stolen property. Three suspects, Cornell Welds, Darren Fiske and Charles Barone, are still at
large. BSO detectives also recovered dozens of luxury vehicles the ring either stole from legit car dealerships or obtained
via “insurance give-up” scams.
On Tuesday, June 21st, BSO undercover detectives, in conjunction with the Broward State Attorney’s Office, authorities in
the State of Indiana, the National Insurance Crime Bureau, Coral Springs Police, the Palm Beach Sheriff’s Office, the
Volusia County Sheriff’s Office, the Miami-Dade Multi-agency Auto Theft Task Force, the Lee County Sheriff’s Office and
Office Depot’s Loss Prevention Unit, dismantled a national multi-million dollar car theft and VIN cloning ring operating out
of several Florida car dealerships, including: Alpine Motors (5981 Funston Street, B1, Hollywood), Cormakk Inc. (5400 SW
12th Street, #216D, Fort Lauderdale), Reids Auto (5981 Funston Street, B2, Hollywood), Platinum Key Auto (Daytona
Beach, FL) and Gold Key Auto (Dissolved in 2000).
According to detectives, ring members dodge authorities by equipping stolen or “insurance give-up” cars with cloned VINs
from a similar make and model. The suspects would then forge new documents - including fake titles - and re-register the
stolen car, allowing them to sell the cars on their lots to unwitting customers as legitimate used cars. The suspects would
even scour junkyards and attend salvage auctions in search of vehicles that matched the description of their stolen cars.
After removing the legitimate VIN from the salvaged vehicle, the suspects would re-VIN their hot ride. The organized crime
ring was operating out of Florida and used certificates of title for cloned VINs from Alabama, California, South Dakota,
Indiana, Ohio, New Jersey and Canada.
After infiltrating the ring, undercover BSO investigators were able to purchase several stolen cars directly from key players
and obtained crucial documents that lead to the recovery of 26 re-VINed luxury cars.
More arrests and vehicle recoveries are expected. The investigation continues.
Investigators: BSO Strategic Investigations Division 6/22/05 1 p.m.
THIS REPORT BY: Liz Calzadilla-Fiallo
NEWS RELEASE
OPERATION ROADRUNNER
March 24, 2005
Cloned stolen vehicles and identity theft pose a serious threat to the nation by organized
criminal groups and potential terrorists
Operation Roadrunner highlights the importance for Homeland Security initiatives and cross
border cooperation on vehicles. This two-year investigation of organized criminal groups
interacting on cloned stolen vehicles and identity theft reached far beyond Florida into at least 14
additional states, including ties to suspects in smuggling narcotics, grow houses, and one subject
was arrested for an outstanding homicide case in Miami-Dade County. Two suspects in this
organized criminal enterprise were operating from federal prison and one from the Miami-Dade
County jail
In October 2003, Miami-Dade Auto Theft Task Force detectives and the Florida Attorney
General’s Office of the Statewide Prosecutor, with assistance from the U.S. Immigrations and
Customs Enforcement, launched an investigation into the Ferrer organized crime group in Florida.
This case of cloned stolen vehicles and identity theft led to a distribution network operating
throughout the United States.
May 2004, the first rounds of arrests were made under state statutes of Racketeering and
Conspiracy to Commit Racketeering. Arrested were Rafael Ferrer, Antonio Ferrer, of Miami-
Dade, William Fuentes, of Louisville, Kentucky, Daryous Kangarani of Las Vegas, Nevaida and
Sean McClinton of Virginia Beach, Virginia.
This second round of charges for Racketeering and Conspiracy to Commit Racketeering include
Carlos Ponce (who is currently incarcerated in Miami-Dade County jail), Jorge Luis Valdes,
Francisco Sabilla, of Miami-Dade, Richard Wershe Jr., Lorenzo Nichols Jr. and Lorenz Nichols
Sr. Richard Wershe Jr. and Lorengo Nichols Sr. are currently incarcerated in a federal prison for
other criminal acts. The investigation is continuing and further arrests are expected.
The investigation has identified over 250 vehicles valued at approximately $8 million that have
been stolen and sold with altered vehicle identification numbers and paperwork. To date, over 21
suspects have been arrested on various state charges and 119 vehicles have been recovered
with an approximate value of $3.5 million. This group would target and take high-end vehicles
including Hummer H2s and Escalades.
Cloned vehicles and identity theft are a growing and significant problem throughout the United
States, Canada and Mexico. The lack of an integrated registration system allows criminal groups
to “clone” vehicle identification numbers (VIN) from vehicles in multiple states and countries at
one time. The suspects in this investigation utilized cloned numbers from the United States and
even Canada to conceal the stolen vehicles. These vehicles are sought by smuggling operations
to make it difficult for law enforcement to link vehicles to them. Worldwide, stolen/altered vehicles
are being utilized by terrorist organizations in vehicle bombs. The crime can have a significant
impact on investigations, making it more difficult or impossible to identify suspects.
In the United States, two vehicle bombs, one at the World Trade Center in 1993 and the other in
the Oklahoma City Bombing in 1995, involved vehicles that were quickly identified. If these
vehicles had been altered with cloned numbers, investigators may not have been able to make
timely arrests. Clearly, with this system online, it would save lives and assist in the prevention of
these acts.
More recently, during a raid on an Abu Musab al-Zarqawi command center in Fallujah, an SUV
registered in Texas was found being converted into a bomb (CBS News November 19, 2004).
Sunday, March 13, 2005, Time Magazine wrote that reports indicated that al-Zarqawi seeks to
strike “soft targets” in the United States by smuggling vehicles through the US – Mexican border.
Just citing these two examples shows that to be able to accurately identify a vehicle is a global
issue.
Auto theft costs the citizens of the United States over $8 billion annually (NICB Press Release,
February 28, 2005). Without the ability to clone vehicles and obtain “legitimate” titles, stolen
vehicles could not be resold for a high profit that organized groups now reap. In 1992, the US
Congress passed the Title II of the Anti-Car Theft Act requiring the establishment of the National
Motor Vehicle Title Information System (NMVTIS), to be on-line by January of 1996.
This system will integrate information from all 50 states of the US so that the registration
processing of vehicles cannot be cloned and titles “washed” of information such as damage
claims. The NMVTIS project is still ongoing but is currently facing a funding issue to become fully
operational. The American Association of Motor Vehicle Administrators (AAMVA) has the
responsibility for managing and implementing the system. AAMVA is working to secure funding
and to integrate the system with Canada and Mexico. Funding this system is important to fighting
organized crime, and providing homeland security in North America.
The success of this investigation was due to the efforts of members from the Miami-Dade Police
Department, the Miami-Date Multi-Agency Auto Theft Task Force, the Florida Attorney General’s
Office of Statewide Prosecutor, the Federal Bureau of Investigation, Immigrations and Customs
Enforcement, the Federal Bureau of Prisons, the Federal Highway Patrol, the Florida Division of
Motor Vehicles, the Miami-Dade State Attorney’s Office, the National Insurance Crime Bureau,
the Hialeah Gardens Police Department and the Miami-Dade Correction’s Department. In
addition, a number of local, county, and state agencies, specifically the Louisville Police
Department, the Arizona Department of Public Safety, the New York City Police Department, the
Virginia Beach Police Department, the California Highway Patrol, the Las Vegas Metropolitan
Police Department, the Phoenix Police Department, the Detroit Police Department and the
Georgia Division of Motor Vehicles provided assistance and conducted their own investigations
related to this case.
Miami-Dade Police Department
Media Relations Bureau
9105 NW 25111 Street
Doral, Florida 33172-1500
305-471-1900
Fax: 305-471-1904
Ruth Sheehan's column in the City & State section Thursday gave the wrong name for a Cary neighborhood. It is called Preston.
*******
When they came and towed her Lexus SUV, Lorraine Pierson stood on her porch in Prestonwood and cried.
Who could blame her?
Lorraine had been driving the Lexus LX 470 for nearly two years -- and making the sizable monthly payments on it, too.
Then, last week, she learned that her dream car had been stolen from a guy in New York City in late 1999. That's why the Division of Motor Vehicles had the sport utility vehicle towed away.
But it gets worse. Not only did Lorraine lose her wheels, but she and her husband, Fred, also may end up paying for that stolen Lexus for 16 more months, though they took every step possible to make sure they were making a legal purchase.
Here's how it happened:
Fred Pierson, a hotel manager, said he decided to buy the Lexus SUV as a gift for his wife. But since they couldn't afford $50,000-plus for a new one, they started scanning the paper for a used one. They found one, complete with a DVD player and PlayStation, with less than 30,000 miles, being offered by a guy in Apex. The guy agreed to take $40,000 for it.
But with just a little more than $10,000 to put down on the vehicle, Fred Pierson asked the Leith Jaguar dealership in Cary to handle the financing. The car was fully inspected for previous damage; its vehicle insurance number was checked for theft against the national database.
Finally, the Piersons walked away with the keys and a piece of paper that said the SUV's title was "guaranteed." Ha.
For 20 months and 20 payments, all was well. Then, Lorraine Pierson found a business card in the door of her vehicle from Stan Ferguson, an investigator with the DMV's License and Theft Bureau.
Last week, Ferguson and another investigator visited the Pierson home, crawled underneath the Lexus and discovered that the identification number had been professionally altered -- except on the actual frame. In the trade, it's called vehicle "cloning," in which a number from a legally registered vehicle is used to mask a stolen one. The title, meanwhile, had been "washed" in Virginia, presumably by the folks from whom the guy in Apex bought the SUV.
Within hours, the SUV was towed away. "I cried for two days," Lorraine Pierson told me.
So far, her husband calculates he has spent $17,748 on the SUV -- not including the cost of the lawyer he has hired. But what really makes him shudder is the balance he might still be liable for -- $25,878. "Plus the cost of a new car for my wife," he said.
Incidents of vehicle cloning are detected every week in North Carolina, said Joey Gardner, assistant director of the DMV License and Theft Bureau. The division tries to catch such cases immediately when a new North Carolina title is being issued. But sometimes, as in the Piersons' case, even a detailed history on Carfax is not going to show where a vehicle has really been.
The only other precaution Gardner could offer was to be cautious about the seller. Never buy a car from someone who asks to meet you at a mall or can only be reached by cell phone. But in this case, the Piersons did all they could.
"It's definitely a buyer-beware market when you're buying a vehicle," Gardner said.
Fred and Lorraine Pierson are testament to that.
----------------------------
Also, an update on the couple who leased a used Lexus SUV for two years, only to have the Division of Motor Vehicles discover it had been stolen, its vehicle identification number "washed" by thieves.
After I wrote about the case, Fred and Lorraine Pierson of Preston in Cary got a call from Leith Auto offering to pay off the remainder of the loan on the vehicle, which had been carted off by the DMV. The dealership also offered the Piersons a $3,500 credit on another Lexus SUV.
Fred Pierson took the kind offer, but he is still out $18,000 in payments on the original car, not to mention $9,000 on the replacement. Not exactly a poor man's problem, to be sure.
But buyer beware. Before you bring home a used car, make sure the VIN on the body's carriage checks out. And make sure all the paperwork covers your hiney, just in case.
------------------------------------------
I DON"T understand why the legitimate buyers should be the potential losers.
posted on February 1, 2006 09:27:56 AM new
glassgrl:
I sure hope I have a good chance to fight the dealership because I will drag their name through the mud if I have to.
I was going to contact BBB, Honda Corporation, AutoNation ( they are part of), etc, etc....
Thank you for the info
So far the laywer I found MAY be able to help me. I am not too clear. He works for large companies only. I told him the story, he ask for all the info. We should be talking again later today.
posted on February 1, 2006 09:33:41 AM new
wasn't that depressing?
Also - on the last .pdf story (couldn't copy that one - I had to find a news story about it instead) the Pierson's DID use CarFax to check the history before they bought it.
Online - there are stories saying that CarFax will tell you if your VIN number has been cloned. right. Only if it's been reported I bet. CarFax has a buyback guarantee - good for one year after purchase. Isn't that lovely?
They said about the only way to be sure is to buy from a Car Dealer, not off the street. AND to make sure your VIN number matches in all locations on the car - that the thieves usually don't change all the numbers.
posted on February 1, 2006 09:56:40 AM newNoone's ever convinced me about carfax. Maybe they're a help, I don't know their process. .....In a previous long winded post I made.
Glassgrl: Thanks for posting the information on the autotheft bust. Like I stated earlier, they'll probably be looking for the confidential vin since a vin plate or a title can have problem. Confidential vins are pretty closely guarded as to where they are placed on any given make or model and usually requires an "expert" in auto theft to know where to look. And this article proved it (crawling under the vehicle is not a dashboard vin) and the facts that certain states aren't catching forged documents.
The government can pass all the laws they want against auto theft but if they don't have enforcement, what's the point? Computers from every state need to talk to each other, immediately, and to the national crime informaction center. They don't. Why not? (rhetorical)
posted on February 1, 2006 10:01:23 AM newI was going to contact BBB, Honda Corporation, AutoNation ( they are part of), etc, etc....
cherachael: Why bother? IF there's a problem, all of the above is a waste of your time. You would want compensation and none of those associations are there to help you get that back. Save your energy for negotiations with the dealership or helping your attorney to help you.
posted on February 1, 2006 11:31:25 AM new
I am sorry, I did not make it clear. I was going to contact all of the above only IF
necessary and if I do not feel that the dealership is fair.
I was thinking of them as back up to put pressure on if need be.
I sure hope I will not have to do this and this will be as painless as possible, but somehow I doubt it...
Lawyer called to say that he was able to get a hold of the dealer's lawyers and they are concerned. He will try to establish time when EVERYONE will be there.
(Woohoo)? Maybe.
I have to get more info out of him and wondering will this cost me and how much.
I will ask him next time, I was too chicken to loose him.
Everything now depends on the inspection.
I really want to get it over with, but we need the car badly for business this weekend, so we may be forced to wait few more days if they cannot do this really soon.
I will keep you posted.
posted on February 1, 2006 11:32:38 AM new
I bot a certifed pre owned Honda Accord recently from the largest Honda dealer in the country a few months ago,it came from Florida.
I have a card from Honda the company saying it is a certified used car,but Honda does not go around checking to see if the car is stolen or not.
Carfax report just shows information picked up from different bureaus,anything which is off record or not reported is not going to show up in the report.
There are also fake titles,I know they have found some in Texas.
As for dressing up lemons,flooded cars etc and sell them in auctions,there are foreign buyers from Latin America who participate in those auctions,they dont mind hauling those cars into their own countries and sell them.
/ lets all stop whining !! /
posted on February 1, 2006 12:34:50 PM new
"I have a card from Honda the company saying it is a certified used car"
what does that exactly mean??? whats the difference between a certified used car, and a used car?....for that matter whats the difference between a "pre-owned vehicle" and a used car? Frankly,I dont need a card stuck in my wallet saying the car is used,all "classic" has to do is look at the odometer.................
posted on February 1, 2006 12:39:23 PM new
here is the def. of certified:
The certification process includes an exhaustive 150-point mechanical and appearance inspection, performed by the dealer, to ensure that each vehicle meets the highest possible standards. Plus, all Honda Certified Used Cars come with a 7-year/100,000-mile powertrain warranty and a 12-month/12,000-mile non-powertrain warranty.
it was worth it when time came for repairs... lots of things were recently replaced and should be new now
[ edited by cherachael on Feb 1, 2006 12:40 PM ]
posted on February 1, 2006 12:59:59 PM new
You can go to Honda official site and find out what is a pre owned certified used Honda car.
pre owned car is a used car,it just sounds better!!!!!!!
Certified used car is more expensive than a used car ,everything equal,it could cost a few thousand dollars more.
What does it buy you_- the assurance that it has gone thru Honda 150 points inspection and extended warranty 100,000 miles or 7 years,which ever comes first.
Hind sight is always 20/20,Honda Accord and Toyota camry are such good cars,do I really need the extra assurance??NO,since I dont drive that much!!
After I bot my certified used car with 3 miles,another dealer in town has 2 floor model with 3k miles for less!!
/ lets all stop whining !! /
[ edited by hwahwa on Feb 1, 2006 01:09 PM ]
posted on February 1, 2006 07:48:51 PM newtoybuyer: the investigator did tell me he will come back with 2 police officers when he is ready to inspect the van.
Hello, doesn't this raise any red flags? If this guy comes back, call 911 RIGHT AWAY. I have been in the car business my whole life. Grew up in it. If your car was stolen, they take the car right then and there to impound. They do not wait. Same thing on a Repo.
Someone wants to steal your car plane and simple.
This guy will bring his own police. Good one. You need to make sure your real police are called for everyones insurance.
.
.
.
Many misleading tricks in 2006. The new Demomoron slogan.
posted on February 1, 2006 09:35:37 PM new
I do hope that you will retain an attorney. I am surprised that you are having difficulty in locating one. The only way this matter will be resolved is through an attorney. Contact the Bar Association in your County. They will be able to refer you to someone who is capable of handling your case.
Forget the Yellow Pages or calling an office to look for advice. Call the referral, make an appointment, and bring your papers. If you are short on cash, some attorneys will make payment arrangements.
posted on February 1, 2006 09:55:32 PM new
The original VIN from the factory is embedded in the car's computer. Any Honda dealer should be able to retrieve it. In California, any smog inspection station can transmit that data directly from the vehicle to the DMV database for comparison against registration records. A mismatch will set of all kinds of bells. That's how they keep a smog inspection station from allowing a customer to pull a switch at inspection time. This process is used thousands of times a day. Admittedly, the pollution control requirements here have become the most stringent in the country, but in doing so, our DMV has the process of instant vehicle identification and forged registration certificate detection down to a science on most cars manufactured after 1996.
If Murphy's law is correct, everything East of the San Andreas Fault will slide into the Atlantic
posted on February 2, 2006 08:54:31 AM newThe original VIN from the factory is embedded in the car's computer
This is not true. Only the Computer ID will be stored in the computer.
The vin number will be located a various spots throughout the car, but the easiest place to view is either in the left hand door jam or through the windshield on the dash.
.
.
.
Many misleading tricks in 2006. The new Demomoron slogan.
posted on February 2, 2006 10:02:19 AM newThe vin number will be located a various spots throughout the car, but the easiest place to view is either in the left hand door jam or through the windshield on the dash.
True, except for the confidential vin. Whole different ball game.
The vehicle identification number will also be imbedded electornically in the SDM, Sensing Diagnosic Module often referred to as the black box. (any car with an airbag has one!) Not all black boxes can be downloaded by law enforcement. Those that can will have the identifying Vin on it. But this is another topic.
posted on February 2, 2006 12:43:04 PM new
All this talk about confidential VIN's has really given me and some friends of mine a good chuckle. Most any mechanic or body shop mechanic knows where the so called "secrect" VIN is. It's not a big secrect in our opinion.
Also, many foreign cars have the last 6-8 digit's of the VIN plastered on almost every major component of the vehicle. Pull almost any body panel and there it is. Some even acid etch it into the windshield and side windows along with the safety certification ID. I have also seen them on many engine blocks and transmissions along side serial number for those parts. The foreign car makers have been doing this for many years now due to the high vehicle theft rate. US auto makers as usual are slow to catch up but most are either planning on doing this or have even begun to do it on some of their higher value vehicles.
Vehicle Electronic Control Modules (ECM) have had the VIN number programed into them for years by both US and foreign auto makers to include medium/heavy truck's. Vehicles that have multiple ECM's and work on a multiplex system often also have the VIN programed into the different modules (but not all). However the VIN's found on these modules is easily reprogramed with a factory diagnostics scanner and is therefore NOT a reliable source. How else do you think they program the VIN and vehicle specefic info into a new ECM when it fry's in your car and they install a new one.
They say your memory's the second thing to go, I just can't remember what the first thing is.
