posted on December 29, 2007 06:39:09 PM new
"""Some introductions are in order, I see. MingoTree and hwahwa, meet Logic.
If your claim is correct, then the Christmas gifts most of us received are worth nothing since we paid nothing for them. Oh, isn't that going to be an unpleasant surprise at the returns counter.
But don't worry. I get it, really. In your clumsy, hamfisted, illogical way you are trying to make some point about the marketplace. What neglus, Landotters and mcjane understand that you do not is that what I sell is actual department store jewelry. The value attached to that jewelry is the actual price you would pay in a department store.
fLufF"""
My, my, a little seller anger showing.....
Once it sells for $2.99 it's a $2.99 piece...period.
What anyone, dealer, ebay seller, or department store, ASKS for it is NOT the value.
The value is what, in that split second in time, is PAID for the item.
If one understood the "marketplace", one would not confuse gifts with items for sale.
posted on December 29, 2007 07:07:33 PM new
Hmmm, to further stir the pot on this "discussion," if I attempt to return an item to a department store with a retail tag of $275, I better have a receipt for that amount or the "refund" I receive will be the lowest that that item ever sold for in that store.
That cashmere sweater in my closet has a M*c**'s tag on it for $275. I only paid $59 after discounts and coupons.It is only going to be worth a refund of $59,if I have the receipt. If not, who knows how low it may have been discounted after I bought it.
posted on December 29, 2007 07:19:13 PM new
Knowing just how hamfisted and illogical Ralphie can be (don't DARE ask him to COMBINE shipping), we better make this fine piece a GIFT for Lucky...
posted on December 29, 2007 08:18:18 PM new
Yes, you need a receipt to return merchandise.
Yes, you will only receive what the receipt says you paid for it.
Yes, it's was a $59.00 sweater at that point in time that it was sold....obviously not a $275.00 sweater.
You want them to give you more than you paid for it????
Don't really see what that has to do with the "discussion".
posted on December 29, 2007 08:30:50 PM new
Wow, it has to do with the fact that what you paid is what it is worth, not what the MSRP states.No, I don't want someone to give me more than I paid.
Seems like a lot of people's anger is showing.
"Once it sells for $2.99 it's a $2.99 piece...period.
What anyone, dealer, ebay seller, or department store, ASKS for it is NOT the value.
The value is what, in that split second in time, is PAID for the item."
Isn't that the same as when it sells for $59 that is what it is worth??
posted on December 30, 2007 08:05:59 AM new
With any merchandise,there is a cost,price and intrinsic value.
Price is the asking price ,it can be 99 cents or it can be 999 dollars,you can ask any price you want,if you can find a buyer who would pay you the asking price and it is usually comprised of cost and markup.
Cost is what does it cost to produce such a piece of merchandise,say cost of silver,other metals,direct and indirect labor and fixed and variable overhead allocated to the piece.
Intrinic value is the value others will pay you for its worth,for a piece of merchandise it is more of a consensus of the underlying value of material,labor and desirability.
Desirability,thats the hardest part to determine,what is desirable to some is abhorring,abominable to others,say the flying fruit bat which is deep fried and eaten as a delicacy on some islands.
Same can be said of a Picasso painting,would the Australian aboriginals appreciate what we paid for his painting?
Or Mona Lisa,is she really the most beautiful woman on earth?I dont think so,I think she could use some Zoloft!
As long as a piece of item stays in that part of the world where it is generally accepted as desirble,it holds its intrinsic value-chicken feet ,duck web will stay in Asia,fruit bats stay in the Pacific islands and Picasso and MOna Lisa stay in the Western civilised world.
It is not too difficult to prove -
if an item has a price tag of 89 dollars but sold on Ebay for 2.95 and you want to return to the seller,you get 2.95 back.
If you receive this itema as a gift or you shoplift it in a dept store and sell it on ebay,your cost is zero (there is a cost,someone is incurring that cost-aka the gift giver or the dept store)and someone bidded and won that item at 3 dollars.
That 3 dollars is the intrinsic value someone is willing to pay at such a marketplace called Ebay and at a certain time period Decemeber 2007.
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[ edited by hwahwa on Dec 30, 2007 08:06 AM ]
[ edited by hwahwa on Dec 30, 2007 08:08 AM ]
posted on December 30, 2007 11:18:25 AM new
I'm not so sure about the totality of yer premise, HwaHwa: seems like some FruityBats have been flitting in & out around here lately?
posted on December 30, 2007 01:41:07 PM new
Voltaire used the phrase to define a cynic, but I think it works well here too. A _____ is someone who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing.
I bought a house for $x, which was around $100K less than it was "worth", because no realtor wanted to deal with the seller. We asked about the house, were told that we didn't want to look at it, got ourselves another realtor and bought the house. I figure it's part of a realtor's job to deal with crazy sellers. A crazy seller and crazy wallpaper; only a fool can't look past those things.
So, was my house worth $x or $x+$100K?
I think Fluffy's placing a value of $80 on jewelry that actually sells at that price is fair. What is bogus is when someone lists a price that nobody has ever paid and will never pay.
posted on December 30, 2007 01:57:08 PM new
Well, we are all moved into our new place and computers back up and running so I can't resist getting in on this discussion.
As a Realtor in my 'past life' I dealt with my share of crazy Sellers and crazy Buyers and, YES, it is a part of the job although I do remember 'firing' one Seller because he was verbally abusive to me and I believed physically abusive to his wife therefore it was my right to fire him. That was an extreme case so usually I 'humoured' the PITA's until we got along well enough to get the job done!
I seem to recall that here in Canada the legal definition of Market Value is:-
'Market Value is the price that a willing Seller will accept and a willing Buyer will pay with neither being under undue stress."
If an item can be bought for $2.00 at one place and the Seller is willing to accept that amount then that is fair Market Value.
If the same item is for sale elsewhere at $10.00 and that is what the Seller is willing to accept and the Buyer is willing to pay then that is also Fair Market Value.
posted on December 30, 2007 02:56:55 PM new
You can PLACE a "value" on anything. But what it sells for is the value at that point in time. You can say an item is "valued" at $100.00 but if it only sells for $9.99 then it's a $9.99 item.
"Antiques Roadshow"'s experts can "value" an item but it's only worth what someone will pay for it.
posted on December 30, 2007 03:36:27 PM new
Otteropp - are you still in Vancouver? I bet you are glad to get settled in and hooked up.
I moved 2 years ago and have still unpacking to do. good luck in your new home
neva
posted on December 30, 2007 03:49:17 PM new
Neva...we are on Vancouver Island. We were in a small town and have moved to the City of Victoria. Once a City gal always a City gal and I have the ocean at my doorstep...well across the road!
I have been busy unpacking but we have not listed our old house for sale so have the yukky job of going and cleaning and painting and listing to do. December just is not the time to list a home here.
I just had to weigh in on this discussion because I had been suffering from Vendio withdrawl for the past few weeks.
posted on December 30, 2007 03:51:25 PM new
First I would like to say fluff was telling us about a buyer wanting combined shipping and she puts her on the block list, then asked us what do we think?..
How this thread got off topic was because what Mcjane mentioned about feedback that was left for fluff,
Well an 80.00 price tag would bring decent money if not on ebay and if not started so low in hopes of going higher. Just because it sold for 2.99 does not mean that is the value, it was just what someone paid because there was no other bidders willing to pay more. People are very cheap and feel they can steel something on ebay and they do steel it for dirt cheap as all you sellers know this.
I don't think everything should be started so low mainly because the bidders on ebay are cheap, But fluffy is still making a profit even though it didn't sell near its value if bought in a dept store.
When I have something I feel has a decent value to it I start it for a fair price because I know they are not going to fight over it since it is not hard to get.
When I have collectibles that I know will get a good bidding war then I start the item cheap.
I don't think what you all are saying is right, just because something sells for a low price does not mean that's what its value is, it just means there were no other bidders fighting for it at this time. If you listed the same piece for more money it would sell to the right buyer who realizes they are getting a bargain.
I have seen some old cameras selling for very little so what does that mean?,,,does it mean when I go to list the same camera I should list it for the low price just because it sold for so little, because then the same camera at another time sells for so much more....so what does that tell you?
It tells me sell it for what I think I want and should get and don't concern myself with the passed selling prices because it doesn't tell you the true value since the price changes so much for the same item.
I know there will be many that will not agree with me but that's how I feel.
posted on December 30, 2007 04:00:26 PM new
toni: I agree with a lot of what you say. I will not start my auctions out too low for the same reasons. If at the time the auction ends, only one person is interested, it goes for the starting bid, if the starting bid was higher and that same one person wanted it, they would have paid a higher price. I am not talking about a gouging price, just a fair price. I don't want to sit on an item forever, but at the same time I am willing to wait to get a decent return on my investment.
[ edited by merrie on Dec 30, 2007 04:53 PM ]
posted on December 30, 2007 04:03:30 PM new
"""and don't concern myself with the passed selling prices because it doesn't tell you the true value since the price changes so much for the same item."""
That's what I've been saying.
"""Well an 80.00 price tag would bring decent money if not on ebay and if not started so low in hopes of going higher. Just because it sold for 2.99 does not mean that is the value, it was just what someone paid """
Lotsa "ifs" ......the value is what someone paid at that point in time....if it later sells for more, or less...then that's the value..
posted on December 30, 2007 04:29:00 PM new
otteropp - I went to Victoria Highschool many years ago. We had a home just behind the Empress Hotel on Humboldt St. It is now a parking lot I think. Victoria is a great little city. My sister still lives there. I know what you mean about Vendio withdrawal. there is so much to learn there. Good luck on your new home. n
posted on December 30, 2007 04:51:04 PM new
Thanks Neva...there is a huge new condo building in the process of being built on that site!
Tonimar..yes, you are saying in a different way what many of us are saying.
If you list for what you want and there is a buyer willing to pay that amount ( however much or little) then that is the fair price at that point in time. That price may change the next day or next week when someone lists exactly the same item for a different price whether it be more or less....it goes back to my earliuer point that the legal definition of Market value is what a Seller will accept and a Buyer will pay at any given time with neither being under undue stress.
Hey...Fluff, you really started an interesting thread here, thank you.
posted on December 30, 2007 05:59:40 PM new
Since the beginning of time all Department stores have always inflated the price of jewelry way beyond what they pay for it. A lot of what they sell is shipped in on consignment lots,they sell what they can and ship it back. They are billed for what they sold. the other reason they do this is to have sales of 50% off or whatever to make the customer jump on the item and buy it. Thats the way they do business. The styles change so much that in turn companys that sell to them have to keep the stuff moving so they sell in big lots to whoever will buy it. In the China business its the same thing,way over inflated.
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posted on December 30, 2007 08:05:12 PM new
Otteropp: If all goes well we'll be in Victoria at the end of May for a few days post-cruise. I would be honored if you'd let me buy you a cuppa at Murchie's.
posted on December 31, 2007 04:25:10 AM new
Ok otteropp - taking your analogy a little further...in my former life as a mortgage banker (back when lenders really cared what a property was worth before approving financing), "Market Value" was supported using comparables - the selling price of at least three recently sold similar properties. Using those sales as bases, value was added or taken away for age of property, condition, amenities (fireplaces etc) etc. Of course no one is going to bother doing all of this with a common piece of silver jewelery but you could arrive at a value by comparing the piece to others recently sold. Shipping and handling would of course have to be taken into consideration.
The amount paid for an individual item in a single transaction is the sales price. This is not necessarily "Market Value".
"childrens do learn"
