posted on July 14, 2008 10:50:16 PM
When our daughter went away to college in Minnesota, her roommate would say something like "Oh, I like your hairs! They look cute."
"You guys" is one of my pet peeves, from waiters. Why can't they just ask, "Are you ready to order?" Sometimes my husband and I count the "you guys" in a single meal out. The record was something like 12.
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posted on July 15, 2008 10:41:32 AM
HE HE! the rogue apostrophe strikes again!
I just came from the web site of a new restaurant in my neighborhood that is getting rave reviews for the sophisticated food it serves. I was checking out the breakfast menu when I saw....Winnie’s Mom’s Muffin’s
OK the Mom belongs to Winnie and the muffin belong to Mom so both of those apostrophes make sense but what belongs to the muffin?
-----o----o----o----o----o----o----o----o
“The illiterate of the future will be the person ignorant of the use of the camera as well as of the pen.”
Maholy-Nagy, Vision in Motion, 1947
posted on July 15, 2008 11:19:23 AM
Capolady, I am in total agreement with you
on the counting back change challange.
It is so sad. Makes me cringe every time.
My pet peeve in writing is their, there and they're.
I see them each used incorrectly more often than I see them used correctly.
posted on July 15, 2008 02:21:08 PM
If I'm repeating, I'm sorry. I don't have time to read the entire thread. Capolady would be correct if dogs were plural possessive.
posted on July 15, 2008 09:51:19 PM
You have brought up my biggest pet peeve - the blatant misuse of the apostrophe in public. It's not difficult to check the use against contraction and possession - especially when it's something written and posted in public places.
I've taken a pen out of my pocket while walking through a grocery store and made corrections and I've even carefully taken down a small incorrect sign and walked it to the courtesy desk and requested corrections before it was replaced. I'm not suggesting we go to that extreme - but I think we have to all own responsibility for the greater community. (Lord knows, no one else is!)
We can blame teachers and others in educating - and we MUST hold educators responsible for correct usage - because we really owe it to today's youth to be more vigilant and call out the misuses where we see them. If we accept them repeatedly and allow them to be incorrectly used, who are we to blame when it "becomes" accepted in the future?
Just a thought for further discussion...
Wayne
Never explain -- Your friends do not need it and your enemies will not believe you anyway.
~ Elbert Hubbard
posted on July 16, 2008 04:33:34 AM
"Actually, the dog(s) doesn't really own the bowl"
Well, if that's the case, here's a little experiment to try at home. Take the bowl, put some cereal or soup in it, and place it in front of a loved one. You'll probably find an apostrophe (and surely, as a bonus, an exclamation mark) in your loved one's response.
Just to start my day right, here's an excerpt from an email I received from a friend this morning:
We did not have Playstation's, Nintendo's, X-Boxes, no video games at all, no 150 channels on cable, no video movies or DVD's, no surround-sound or CD's, no cell phones, no personal computer, no Internet or chat rooms.......
I count 4 misplaced apostrophes in that one short paragraph alone. This is why I believe the internet, and email in particular, is partly responsible for the avalanche of apostrophes we see today. People see these grammatical mistakes on a daily basis.
I like your idea, Wayne...I'm going to carry a Sharpie and make corrections on the fly when I see them. That oughta make friends and influence people! My beloved insists I'm beating a dead horse here.
My old English grammar teacher would be so proud....
posted on July 16, 2008 06:46:43 AM
What worries me the most is the underlying softening of thought that this reflects. The use of apostrophes is, after all, somewhat arbitrary and the world wouldn't end if the rules were reversed (e.g., its standing for "it is" and it's standing for the possessive).
Similarly, if bowing to pressure from usage "e.g." came to stand for "that is" and "i.e." for "for example," my wife would still love me and the earth would still go around the sun... but it would nevertheless still bug me
There have always been mushy-minded people, including some whose education gave them every opportunity to be better. I am shocked, however, by the mental laziness I see more and more around me. The media, schools, popular culture, etc. all have a part in having made this acceptable. Heck, I enjoy watching "Project Runway" as much as the next person, but I know that it's a guilty pleasure, because it is like a Twinkie, just empty calories.
Listen to a political discussion, whether it's on TV or among friends: it's just a collection of sound bites volleyed back and forth, with no listening or learning by either party. It makes me nervous for my 4 children (who BTW, chafe at grammar, but have sharp minds and not infrequently "win" points in disagreements with me ).
posted on July 16, 2008 07:28:02 AM
I'm obviously guilty of that one, cash! I used "i.e." rather than "e.g." in the opening post of this thread. I'm sure you noticed I stand corrected.
I was watching the Today Show this morning when a local commercial came on. The woman pronounced the word "important" as imporant, as if there were no "t" at the beginning of the last syllable. It turned my head. I looked at the TV and asked my beloved, "did she say what I think she said?" Mind you, this was a supposedly professionally-made commercial produced for a large local concern.
My beloved now thinks I need to see the doctor for some Xanax, I must be having anxiety issues! LOL Speaking of Monk...
posted on July 16, 2008 07:44:19 AM
Shething, don't worry about it too much, I honestly think that i.e. and e.g., are used in the "reverse" way well more than half of the time, probably 90%. I find it in the NY Times sometimes. And, whether I like it or not, usage ultimately wins.
I could use some Xanax myself. I can cope with the grammar thing, but it is becoming depressing seeing the markets (ALL the markets other than commodities) going down the tubes.
A quick Google shows the majority of style guides and writers don't use the apostrophe in "DVD's." There are references to it as archaic (interesting sense of time frames when anything related to DVDs can be considered archaic). Even the NY Times, as of March '07, has opted for "DVDs."
There IS an exception for single letter acronyms, as in "He got all A's on his report card."
posted on July 16, 2008 09:31:19 AM
Wayne: I've done the same thing - in grocery stores ("naval" oranges--NO! "Navel" -- YES!), doctors' offices, and other places, trying to mark out those danged apostrophes--or adding one that should be there.
I believe we've had a major dumbing down in American education. Garbage in, garbage out. If each succeeding generation is a little worse on grammar and punctuation, and that's the generation we get our new crop of teachers from, they teach it carelessly, and *their* students who become teachers do the same.
It used to be maiden teachers, and then married women whose husbands also worked, who taught, mostly. Now those women seeking jobs have decided to look for jobs that pay better or are more meaningful, and some who are much less qualified are left to do the teaching.
I taught for 3 years; hardest job I've ever had. Many long hours at night and on weekends, because I was conscientious (English and history) and assigned papers I then took home to grade, etc. The summers were my breathing space, after deciding I couldn't do the job another year, and by August I was ready for the new school year.
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posted on July 16, 2008 09:39:46 AM
The number of grammatical errors in newscasts and in newspapers these days is annoying and surprising. These errors do not involve archaic or obscure grammar rules--they are blatant. I have seen and heard references to "a apple," "very unique," most prettiest" etc. I consider myself reasonably tolerant, but these mistakes drive me up the wall. Whatever happened to editing/proofreading?
We've actually started getting many male teachers here, even in elementary school. Most are laid off Wall Street workers who either couldn't get a job there again, or who decided that they'd had enough. The influx of male AND female teachers who are arriving from other demanding jobs is probably resulting in an improvement.
Having said that, we're lucky in this town, with 99% of graduating seniors going on to college (1-2% percent going to 2-year, the rest 4-year). Quite a few intend to take a year traveling/working between HS and college, but have already been accepted and selected a college. The top third go mostly to Princeton, Harvard, etc.
My 12-year old is struggling to break his habit of saying "I got an a-hundred on the test." I'm always pleased with the score, but correct him. People say "a hundred" so quickly that he's grown up thinking it's one word.
posted on July 16, 2008 04:27:30 PM
"An American Epidemic" Are you people for real??????????? Who cares about the proper use of an apostrophe? There are way to many problems in this world to care about the use of a stupid apostrophe.
posted on July 16, 2008 04:46:34 PM
cashinyourcloset,
thanks for your info. I hadn't known NY Times or Associated Press changed their stance on DVD's/DVDs last year. I'm pretty certain it was the other way around before that.
I guess not using the apostrophe in newsprint saves some ink.
toolhound,
do you have something better to rant about???
posted on July 16, 2008 05:16:10 PM
Well, obviously we do or we would not be talking about it in this thread. Judging by the examples cited in these posts,and my own experience, it is also obvious that many, many, many people feel as you do.
Be assured that I'm more than willing to rant about more "important" things: the widening wealth gap, poverty around the world, wars in the world, hunger, etc. This isn't the forum for that, so it doesn't belong here.
However, can you consider for a minute how a decline in grammar comes-from/leads-to a decline in thinking, primarily because of the loss of the ability and inclination to maintain fine distinctions, you know what I'm saying, it's like, uh, know what I mean? Without getting political, I think it's bipartisan to say that US voters have not always made good choices, and get swayed by nonsense (for example, both R and D candidates favored a gas tax holiday, which 99% of economists will explain to you is STUPID!, and the other 1% of economists previously worked for tobacco companies and explained how cigarettes aren't bad for your health).
So, while I don't care in any absolute sense about apostrophes, I DO want to live in a world where people value the ability to express themselves clearly, where they listen attentively to clearly stated views, and where they can make fine distinctions between arguments... and that's why grammar matters.
posted on July 16, 2008 11:16:33 PM
Yes, Cash. You spoke for me, too.
Toolhound: I think you've stumbled into the wrong nest.
A lot of people don't get that they're judged by how they speak and write; most of us form instant opinions of them that are hard to turn around.
Two of the high-IQ 8th graders I taught in Las Vegas, many years ago, didn't understand why grammar was important. One boy told me his dad is a pit boss (in a casino) and makes three times the money I was making. I told him if that's his life's goal, and he's sure there will be a job for him, or even that industry for him, when he's older, just quit now. Otherwise, hedge your bets.
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posted on July 17, 2008 04:30:56 AM
I guess a bunch of you on this board live in a different world than I do. The use of the apostrophe means nothing to people that are trying to feed their families or pay their mortage payment to keep from being homeless. Get out of the house and look around this worlds problems have nothing to do with the apostrophe.
Try using your rants for something to help not for something to put down people that have less of an education or have a lot more to think about today than the apostrophe.
Here is something to rant about. People that start worthless OT threads in "The eBay Outlook". Get a life!
posted on July 17, 2008 06:22:49 AM
Toolhound, Participating in a thread about grammar, does not mean this issue is the center of the universe, nor does it mean we think of nothing else. I assure you, I do not stay awake nights thinking about grammar. I do like to read and grammatical errors can make it difficult to enjoy or understand what I am reading.
I went to school in a time when correct grammar was very important. Our tests were marked for correct grammar and spelling, as well as correct answers. If your answer was right, but you made a grammatical mistake, you got points deducted.
Pet peeves are usually relatively minor irritations and it helps to rant about them. I'm sure you have a pet peeve or two. What is the harm in taking a break from life to discuss something that is of interest to us?
