posted on March 24, 2001 03:00:50 PM new
I know you are suspended for a while on this board but hope you might be lurking! I want to tell you that I felt your sock tin was a collectors tin! Cute auction! I have been watched at Yahoo where someone didn't like my catagory, and had the auction ended. That is insane. The seller (who wants to sell the item, more than anyone else does) should be able to pick their catagory. The only time I think interference should be permitted is on "Adult" items.
I also understand your frustration at the fees. It is crazy.
Come to BidVille! The site is really growing and we need more sellers to attract the buyers. It is a honest site and it has chats.
posted on March 24, 2001 06:30:07 PM new
Moderators, if I am bending any rules, you can lock this.
AG2:
You are too funny! You used to post about their boards all the time. Do you want me to scroll down and bring some to the top for you?
to add to this: The topic was interesting as someone decided to delete auctions that weren't badly placed. Too much power?
[ edited by deichen on Mar 24, 2001 06:31 PM ]
posted on March 24, 2001 06:37:19 PM new
yes deichen I did...and I was reprimanded a couple of times.
Edited to add... I did read that thread and I'm sorry to say I disagreed with Floridaborn.
The tin in question in my opinion was not a "collectible advertising tin ," and in my opinion did not belong in that category. It was a tin with socks in it and was in the appropriate category women's clothing sub category.
AG2
[ edited by auctiongallery2 on Mar 24, 2001 06:46 PM ]
[ edited by auctiongallery2 on Mar 24, 2001 08:49 PM ]
AG2:
Do you know what every other person in the entire world considers a "collectible tin"? That is not for you to decide or really even Bidbay. It was a tin and some collect tins like those. GEESH!
As I stated before on another thread, it is a collectible tin and people wouldn't go into children's socks to find it. If they happened to be looking for children's socks, then they might find it.
It belonged in collectible tins. I buy cookies and candy in collectible tins, not because I want the cookies, but I want the tins. Does this make sense to you?
If you sell one of your items that came in a collector's tin, would you not want to list it under collectible tins as well as the main category to get more exposure? Most people would.
posted on March 25, 2001 10:43:53 AM new
reo...I would like to explain something.
I am attempting through positive means to help affect change in a company that people have a bad perception of.
1 problem I have seen at BidBay and I think you would agree is that it is a difficult site to browse through because of members continuous abuse of their free listings.
And by abuse I mean listing items in every conceivable category they can think of...leaving the front page featured category radio button checked as a default so it launches there upon every listing.
I think it is a positive move on BidBay's part to attempt to add and expand categories but to also clean them up while they are at it so bidders will find a site that is easier to navigate. Isn't that what sellers want?
If you think my disagreeing with another user is because of my wallet being padded then so be it.
But I think you have to ask yourself one question.
Is it change you really wanted with BidBay?
I don't believe so. I dont' believe so for a lot of people on this board.
My reason for not believing it is because no matter what changes they make...someone is quick to either point out a mistake in it, or claim it is an admission of guilt etc.
They are a small company and you can't expect a complete 180 degree turnaround over night.
They are doing everything humanly possible to correct these issues and attempting to do it while keeping their community happy which is an impossible feat in my opinon.
I would just like to remind everyone that discussion of suspended members is generally not allowed. Regardless of content, good or bad, that person is still not able to respond. Therefore discussion of said individual should cease.
posted on March 25, 2001 10:48:58 AM new
mtnmama that is just where you and I will have to agree to disagree.
I do not think in my opinion that everything that comes in a tin would or could be deemed "collectible."
I saw the auction and nothing that I saw of it justified that argument...once again in my opinion.
I have seen collectible advertising tins from Hershey, Pillsbury etc. and this didn't seem to fit in.
Maybe with a better presentation of the "advertising" aspect of the tin she could bolster that point. And by that I mean pics of the lid, or sides of the tin showing the "advertising."
Bidbay allows you to post your auction in up to 2 catagories, given these conditions the auction was fine. You may not collect tins such as those that mtnmama mentioned, but then Big Deal, you are the only one opinion. And on this board, your opinion has turned around 100%. Gosh, why should all of us care about whether bidbay makes good on their promises? We weren't paid $5,000.00 bucks for our "consulting". LOL
I edited to change a sentence
[ edited by deichen on Mar 25, 2001 11:25 AM ]
posted on March 25, 2001 11:44:57 AM new
No Deichen...that is where you are wrong.
My opinion did not turn around 100% only my methods of affecting change.
But then BidBay is making changes too. You see people over there are trying to work together to create a better site.
I am also aware that BidBay allows for you to utilize second categories for listing...but the category you choose must be appropriate and in someone's opinion...which I happened to agree with that tin did not fit the criteria which was Collectibles-Advertising-Tin.
I guess the keyword is "advertising."
Like I stated before I did not see anything in the presentation that offered up this item as a "collectible advertising tin." Just a nice tin that contained socks.
If the seller had maybe taken pictures focusing on key points like the lid, or the sides that contained the "advertising," then maybe we wouldn't even be discussing this.
But in my opinion it was just a "collectible" tin.
Or maybe better yet. BidBay could add another sub-category Collectibles-tins.
I am also aware Deichen that you are a member at BidBay.
Might I ask you what is it you hope to gain from this?
My answer was change. And that is happening.
If that is your answer then how come you are not happy with the changes so far?
I am asking seriously. I would truly like to know and attempting at opening up a discussion that could result once again in positive changes.
Yes disagree all you want. Unfortunately she pulled the auction before I had the chance to see it. However, since there is no category for just collectible tins, I would have put it in the category she chose as well. This was her second category and it justly belonged there. This is just not taken from 6-8 months of auction experience. I have over 3 years of auctioning as I'm sure a few others posting to this thread has. This is not your typical brick and mortar type of categorization. This is an entirely different ball game and I'm sure one day you will come to see that.
The fact that people discuss the pros and cons does not make them anti-BidBay nor does it make them against changes, nor does it make them complain about every little change.
You have to admit, the categories leave a lot to be desired. They had few, now too many sub categories.
You can't please everyone all the time, but moving an auction because one person deemed it to be in an unsatisfactory category is inexcusable. They should have given the user an option/choice .. here's where we think it should go, please choose one. Nope, it wasn't done that way. I had a salt shaker in with kitchen collectibles and it was moved to xtra/other. why ? Who knows? I just moved it back. Another user had a Coke bottle in the Coke category and it was moved to xtra/other with no explanation.
If a site is to succeed, they have to get together on policy, not leave policy up to the interpretation of one person.
And by having certain privileged users to their offices to dictate to them how the site should be run in their opinions is simply not good business. Everyone has their own ways of running auctions, but not everyone has the experience needed.
posted on March 25, 2001 01:26:55 PM new
mtnmama...regardless of my experience or lack of experience as you would attempt to point out in online auctions does not equal that I am wrong. And as far as that is concerned I don't recall submitting my resume to you...LOL...so therefore you have no idea what my qualifications or experiences are regarding anything.
I just expressed an opinion that I agreed with it's movement and/or deletion from that category.
And just because BidBay offers a second category option does not mean that it has to be utilized in every instance.
My question to you is this. What is the big deal? It is not like the user lost fees. They can appeal their decision to George which I believe they ultimately will and usually George concedes in favor of the user.
No harm...no foul in my opinion. New policy is formed, or old policy is discussed and revamped to once again make it a better place for both sellers and buyers.
As far as people discussing pro's and con's that's fine...that's what I'm up for.
I'm just tired of the same old rhetoric over and over.
I don't expect everyone to be happy with BidBay as I wasn't all I've asked for is a discussion not conspiracy theories.
Also was it not you who asked this user "deichen" why they constantly complain about BidBay but continue to use them?
As far as them having too many categories now I'm in complete agreement with you.
The collectibles category is out of hand. I even posted a few suggestions myself.
As far as leaving the policy up to one person that is not what is happening and I know that for a fact.
While at BidBay I had a couple of conversations with Yvonne who oversees that department.
They are working hard at improving that aspect of the site doing their best to make the experience an overall pleasant one, while making sure "personal" decisions and opinions are left out and once again from what I have seen at BidBay usually they concede in favor of the user.
Are there possible flaws in the system. Sure are just like there are here.
Lord knows you better not congratulate new mothers...LOL
Once again I am trying to be proactive here and doing my best at trying to convince others to do the same.
I know some of this is my fault. I stoked the flames here and elsewhere helping to create some of the mistrust there is in BidBay by making mountains out of mole hills.
So let's discuss the pros and cons...I'm game.
AG2
[ edited by auctiongallery2 on Mar 25, 2001 01:28 PM ]
posted on March 25, 2001 01:36:03 PM new
Stoked the flames is a understatement! To say the least!
If bidbay gives the oppurtunity to list in 2 different catagories, then everyone should seize that! It is like getting double exposure.
I am a member of bidbay, epier, bidville, ebay, yahoo and others. So what is your point? All I can say is the tin incident is typical of what goes on at bidbay - unprofessionalism. Gosh, I hope all the changes you propose will make a difference, afterall 5 grand is a lot of money! I listed on Yahoo and ebay for several years and never did they delete one of my auctions. Bidbay did not move her auction, they deleted it. There is a BIG difference, between the two.
The credibility is gone and everyone knows it. Lurk for a while.
posted on March 25, 2001 01:46:56 PM new
AG2:
I just now got around to reading your link to the collectors page. Interesting! I may never want to throw anything away again.
I still say that I would have put that auction in exactly the same place. Maybe someone needs to change the catagory to include collectors tins and not just advertising tins. You have clout, call GT and put in a suggestion.
posted on March 25, 2001 01:47:03 PM new
My point was this:
"Might I ask you what is it you hope to gain from this?
My answer was change. And that is happening.
If that is your answer then how come you are not happy with the changes so far?
I am asking seriously. I would truly like to know and attempting at opening up a discussion that could result once again in positive changes."
Without the rhetoric and the accusations please explain to me why you are not happy with the changes so far.
And by the way...eBay has deleted and moved a few of my auctions. As they have done with numerous others. I suggest you read some of the eBay threads as well as the eBay newsgroups and you will see this is true.
In one case they moved one of my auctions after I complained because it was being interferred with even though the exact same items were still being sold in the original category my item was moved from.
So once again and with feeling...let's discuss the pro's and con's of the site without rhetoric and/or conspiracy theories or barbs at each other.
Edited because I just saw your latest post:
I thought that story was hilarious.
AG2
[ edited by auctiongallery2 on Mar 25, 2001 01:48 PM ]
posted on March 25, 2001 01:55:10 PM new"Might I ask you what is it you hope to gain from this?
To tell you the truth, I am not sure, but the way you now defend them, rubs me the wrong way. Even when you agree with some of my messages, they are worded in such a way, that seems to me, bidbay has you watching what you say.
If that is your answer then how come you are not happy with the changes so far?
I have not noticed any big changes, I do not promote this site or dive into it to see if they have made great strides. I read some of the chats, and quite frankly, I see a lot of unhappiness.
I could discuss pros and cons with you, but my heart is not into helping to build bidbay up, sorry. I realize that yours is now.
Has the worm turned? Of course it has. You not only flamed people, but you demanded in email that I read the facts again and again and tried to persuade me to go against the site. I told you I make my own decisions and that seemed to end the emails. But the consultant fees you accepted really made the difference in the way you think. I know, it would make a difference in my thinking.
As far as my saying experience counts in auctioning, yes it does and no matter who has experience or who has limited experience, it shows on the site itself. People often say this is their first experience in an online auction and it shows. It shows in the handling of deadbeat bidders/sellers, in the handling of moving auctions, in the auctions themselves. I'm sorry, it was not you alone I pointed out, it was the site as a whole. Ever post to the tech board and receive an immediate answer, or an answer at all? Inexperience is a detriment to the site.
As far as my questioning Deichen, that is over and done with. We haven't discussed it further and your bringing up the past is like beating a dead horse. I would appreciate it if you wouldn't do that anymore. It serves no purpose other than to try to fuel the flames between she and I and I won't lend myself to that type of bait. I don't think she will either. That's where inexperience rears its ugly head. Keep to the topic, not past personal grievances.
There is nothing wrong with listing in two categories. It's not in every instance, but if I have something that I feel belongs in two categories, no one, absolutely no one has the right to tell me, the seller and owner of my auctions, that I can't do it. The site is not supposed to be run like a gestapo. It's supposed to be a "venue." If you put an ad in the newspaper, the newspaper is a venue. They don't tell you not to list in two classified sections. They advise, but don't demand.
posted on March 25, 2001 02:16:44 PM new
While I respect your response and appreciate your honesy I really don't understand this part of it.
"I could discuss pros and cons with you, but my heart is not into helping to build bidbay up"
You are a current member of BidBay who is a seller but yet you do not wish to build BidBay up.
I really do not understand that. Would you not want a site you are listing on to improve so that your sales would be affected in a positive manner?
And regarding my heart. When I first began this battle months ago it was my intention to help build a better BidBay. I boycotted by not listing there but remained a member there to the end. I spoke about leaving but never really did however I was suspended from their chat boards because of some of my inflammatory posts here and there. Even then I was still allowed to continue to buy and sell there.
And BidBay is not watching what I say. Like I have said I am just trying to be proactive. I am willing to admit there are plenty of things needing to be worked on at BidBay, I just don't see the need to continue in the same vein as before lashing out at them.
One important reason is I have learned personally how willing they are to work towards improvements. And not just improvements that I alone have asked for...I don't have that much power. But improvements that numerous others have asked for.
You say you haven't seen great strides. Well it's been a relatively short time and some things take longer than others.
I just appreciate the fact that they are trying. I thought they weren't...and I was wrong.
posted on March 25, 2001 02:35:23 PM new
sad, this is really. I happen to see what AG2 sees. I saw the auction, saw that not only in the pic but in the description, it did not show anything to the fact that it was a collectible "advertising" tin. The staff member took down the second category option, because they found it to be wrong, and notified the member. I don't see where this whole thing came from!?!?!?!?! And then, for people to state that the staff brought down the thread, after it was asked to be deleted, I don't know why people who don't have the full idea of what is going on jump the gun like they do. Anyway, I just think it is very sad. I don't care what made you change your mind, AG2, I am just glad that you see BidBay in a different light and are willing to help it get somewhere. I feel that in life, if you want to get far, you do with positive attitide. If I even had a negative attitude about anything, I would turn away from it and focus on the positives somewhere else. Life is too short to waste time critiquing and arguing. I am blessed, because I don't allow people/place/or things that are not related to me (family) or very close friends, to get to me like that. No one or no thing is worth so much of my energy.
Hope you all have a great day!
Tatiana (BidBayPro)
#1 I am not beating a dead horse. You made the comment about how not everyone who speaks on pros and cons about BidBay is anti-bidbay...I just brought up that you yourself stated something similar where I didn't state anything like that period.
As far as beating dead horses how many times are you going to bring the email issue up.
Have I not admitted time and time again that I was wrong about a number of things.
I have stated numerous times that "I was not 100% wrong, but I was not 100% right either."
It had nothing to do with the money that changed my opinion of the people at BidBay.
It had everything to do with meeting the faces and getting to know the people behind the ID's on my computer screen.
What I found wasn't the evil people we made them all out to be sitting behind their computers attempting to take over the world...but people who were very receptive to constructive criticism.
What I was doing on these boards and others wasn't constructive...it was destructive.
Now to get back on topic.
BidBay, eBay, Yahoo, Amazon...they all have a right to tell you where you can or cannot place your ad. Read thier TOS...the one that you agreed to. And ads in papers must be cleared and approved...I am sure you are aware of that.
Now I agree it is bad business to do things like this as we are customers and should be treated as such. But in the end someone has to make the decision and not everyone is going to be happy with it.
If we subscribed to your belief that it is a right because we are the sellers do you realize how abused that system would become.
You have to admit it is already abused now. Items are placed in categories they clearly don't belong in. I found a Playstation 2 in a household category just yesterday...looks like it has been moved now.
I find other items that have categories clearly marked for them in other categories that in no way represent the item that is for sale.
This is something in my opinion that has gotten out of hand...just look at the featured front page category...ridiculous.
It is time that someone takes the reins and reels some of these people in. The sad fact of the matter is some innocent good people might get hurt or offended in the process.
All it will take to clear it up is a call to the office...like I said in just about every case I have seen GT has conceded in favor of the user.
Once again no harm no foul. Everyone learns something...policy is created or changed to reflect an improvement thus gaining the experience they do need.
posted on March 25, 2001 03:02:29 PM new
Let me back up here. I finally saw the auction and did not see where it was described being as a collectible tin at all. All it described were socks and socks in a box, so I can see where BidBay staff felt it was in the wrong category. However, she should have been asked to revise the listing or remove it herself. It's known that BidBay listens to members, but how about giving members the common sense to make changes themselves. Sometimes a hint is needed, rather than a shotgun blast.
Another thing, AG2, I'm not going to tit for tat with you here or anywhere else. You're entitled to your opinion just as we're all entitled to ours.
People are pulling past threads by you up to the top to prove a point. My statement about email was also to prove a point. It was not intended to flame you against anyone, as your post was intended. Are we clear on that?
Tatiana, you know I have the utmost respect for you and normally never disagree with what you or the rest of the staff does, but if one of them deleted an auction of mine without giving me the chance to edit it, then I'd be pretty upset too. This is where this thread came from, I believe.
AG2, I did not have to go to California or accept money from BidBay to know who they are and what they represent. A simple phone call told me everything I had to know. I can always pick up the phone and talk to anyone of the people there, as I did the other day to speak to Yvonne, to see how honest and businesslike they are. You on the other hand had accused them of unthinkable things so I guess you would have had to go there to make amends.
posted on March 25, 2001 03:11:25 PM new
Mtnmama, again, I dont' know why the staff was blamed for the deletion when the user themselves stated on a post that she brought it down, ended it, so that she would comply with the rules and not advertise it(jmo). Either way, the staff DID NOT end/delete the listing! only 2nd category was brought down. She could have gone and edited it to have a diff. second category. Don't understand why all this fiasco!
Sorry, I am upset by this whole incident.
Thanks for letting me speak,
Tatiana
*edited to add* the staff initially did e-mail and ask sellers to edit the items themselves. After many attempts and rarely having memebers make these changes, they must do them themselves to ensure that it is done. You can understand that. So many users, and so many items, it is a headache just thinking of going back to see what's been done while your mailbox is filling up with e-mails from people complaining that there is much clutter of items in wrong categories, etc.
I would imagine she was upset by the situation. However, she has been pretty ill and is probably under the weather just now.
My point is again she should have been given the opportunity to edit the second category listing. I guess that means editing the first as well, but maybe she wasn't thinking clearly.
Sorry you're upset. Sorry I got into this to begin with
edited to add: Just saw your edit LOL! Okay, so she gave half the story. Now I'm really sorry to get into it, because I usually don't just go by half a story. No one can make comments on that kind of thing. Oh well, off to dinner. Have a nice evening.
Deichen, wanna do the "right" thing with this thread?
[ edited by mtnmama on Mar 25, 2001 03:17 PM ]
posted on March 25, 2001 03:16:43 PM new
I'm sorry mtnmama but you do not know the intention of my post...as you do not know the intentions of my heart.
People can make points all day long...the simple fact is I still agree with some of those things. Please show me where I stated otherwise.
I don't know how I can make this any clearer. Not all of my original opinions have changed, it's just that BidBay has done a heckuva lot to restore my faith. They made mistakes...and so did I...I was just reminded how human we all are and once again working proactively.
You say you aren't going to go tit for tat with me when that is not my intention at all...but you make statements inferring that I need to accept money to know who these people are stoking the flames while saying you're not going to.
You are speaking out of both sides of your mouth here.
I'm glad you finally got to see the auction and are now able to form an educated opinion.
I had seen the auction and knew all along and stated as such that the user should have accentuated the "advertising" aspects of the tin which they clearly didn't.
And I have agreed with you that there is room for improvement in how this was handled.
But another point I have been trying to make on these boards the past couple of days is that everyone needs to quit jumping to conclusions and investigate matters before they come in and defend their positions so vehemently as you did this afternoon.
That is the biggest mistake I made during my whole affair, assuming I knew all of the facts. And boy was I wrong about some things.
Okay now let's move on...when are we going to discuss the pro's and con's of the site?
posted on March 25, 2001 03:19:14 PM new
What I see Is somebody, who used whatever means possible, even hurting other Innocent people, to have a say, and yes your wallet got fattened, the means did not justify the ends, nothings changed their at all, frankly It looks worst then ever before, listings down, members unhappy, site problems, CEO doing damage control.
The Tin looks like it could be collectible to me, what do I know, crying after the facts, seems a little Inane.
As for AW, You have BidBay staff posting to this thread, take the necessary step.
