posted on March 6, 2001 09:27:37 PM
Just finished watching John Edwards Crossing Over on SciFi. I've watched it quite a few times and was just wondering what everyone's option is. Is he real or cashing in on people's grief?
I haven't totally made up my mind yet - only know that it's a fascinating show to watch.
posted on March 6, 2001 09:39:48 PM
As a professional Magician for 20 years and an amateur investigator or the paranormal, specifically psychic powers I can tell you from my experience the man is a fraud. What he does is a little known talent used by mentalists and Magicians called Cold Reading. Take a look at this site www.randi.org/research/r-files/coldread.html or just go to any search engine and search for cold reading to get an idea of what they do. Once you've read a little, watch the show again and notice how he forms his "answers". You'll be surprised.
[ edited by TTH on Mar 6, 2001 09:47 PM ]
posted on March 6, 2001 10:08:41 PM
TTH - Thanks for the reply, but I know what a cold reading is and I've already read the article you refer to. It doesn't explain some of the things I see and have seen on his "validation" shows. Mind reading doesn't even explain all of it - that's what some people I know believe that he does.
I'm playing the devil's advocate here because I'm really trying to decide whether he really can do what he says. Maybe I'm trying to find someone to convince me he's a fraud, but I'm still not sure.
posted on March 6, 2001 10:25:40 PM
For a long time I wanted to beleive...until I learned a few things beyond cold reading. One reason I think he is a good magician and not a psychic is the fact the man is in the business to make money, he gets paid for his show, lectures, personal appearances, etc. Paid very well....if he were the real thing, I would think he would take the opportunity to prove his talents and take the Randi challenge. 1.2 million dollars for doing what he supposedly does on a daily basis. This made me think twice about his powers. If he is real it is a win/win situation. He disproves the biggest skeptic of all, gains absolute proof of his talent and gets a good chunk of money for doing so. Did you know all his "guests" are pre-screened and must fill out a lengthy questionaire before appearing? Along with the rumor that he does an "individual" session with each of the aired guests before taping. I don't know whether that is true or not, but with all the other facts tends to make me skeptical.
posted on March 7, 2001 04:24:48 PM new
I'm not sure about John Edwards, but two others, James VanPraagh and George Anderson, have me believing. They are not sensationalists. John acts a bit too slick for my taste. I truly think James VanPraagh and George Anderson are the real deal.
I've had psychic readings before. You can tell when you have a psychic who is just "guessing" and hoping to hit on something that's "in the ballpark". If you've ever had a true reading, with a true psychic, you would know the difference. I had a psychic tell me things that she couldn't possibly have known. She didn't even know my last name. I'm not trying to convince anyone... I'm just saying that I'm not THAT gullible, but some things are way beyond coincidence.
posted on March 7, 2001 04:37:56 PM new
Last weeks issue of Time magazine has an article on John Edwards.After reading that I could see that the show is fake.To tell the truth I was disappointed.I have also been to good and bad psychics and the good ones are amazing.The best one told me some things that there was no way that it was a "shot in the dark" guess.
posted on March 7, 2001 05:19:16 PM new
Oh, Xardon, you always have such a way with words. That's why you make my heart go pitty-pat. That, and maybe that really nice uniform you wear.
posted on March 7, 2001 08:49:18 PM new
xardon and muriel, your back and forth posts always quack me up! I feel like I'm eavesdropping on Dudley Doright and Nell!
posted on March 8, 2001 10:38:46 PM new
I'm still not completely sure, but the more I watch him - the more I think he is the real thing.
Muriel - I too think he's a bit slick, BUT it is TV and I also think it's just his personality. By the way, I'm bidding on a James Van Praagh book and can't wait to read it. I've also heard good things about him.
Anyway......if you watch his show alot you'll see he just seems to know the smallest, strangest things. I don't think he pre-interviews the people on the show and even if he did, he seems to know the weirdest things about someone, something that no way would come out in a short interview. He sometimes tells people things that they only find out are true from someone else in their family at a later date. How can this be considered "cold reading"?
Just my opinion.....I'm a Libra and it changes on a daily basis!! But I think I'm sticking with John Edwards as the real thing.
posted on March 9, 2001 07:57:29 AM new
Hi Rhonda,
I believe he is the real thing too!
How could he know such personal details about
the family members?
My best friend, however does not believe he is real. She says he just has very accute hearing.
Best of luck to you,
B.
posted on March 9, 2001 08:40:29 AM new
For the "True Believers" and those not sure, please check out the link in TTH's first message and also the following. It really isn't supernatural when you know how it's done. They are con men/women who prey on the credulous and the grieving.
posted on March 9, 2001 09:03:07 AM new
True story. Some years ago I went on a Carribean Cruise - a "Last Minute Club" special travel deal. I was quite surprised to find that about 1/3 of the passengers were psychics (having some sort of convention) and 1/3 were travel agents. It was a strange cruise.
posted on March 9, 2001 09:14:26 AM newstockticker- It must be a drag to always know what's for supper ahead of time! Are psychics ever surprised?
A couple of years ago a headline in the local paper said "Psychic killed by car" or similar. First thing that popped into my head was "Bet she didn't see that coming."
[ edited by firstover on Mar 9, 2001 09:15 AM ]
posted on March 9, 2001 09:46:54 AM new
If there were such a thing as Psychic mind readers and fortune tellers, they would have had rule of the world long ago - and kept their mouth shut about their "powers".
They would have amassed so much wealth and power, they would be unstoppable, instead they are on TV and fortune telling for $45 a pop.
What these folks really are is psychologists. They know how to put a read on people by their reactions, and answers to questions- moving general to specific as the answers and reactions lead them - who hasn't had a death in the family ? Who hasn't had an unfortunate experience ? A better term is grifter or confidence man.
I find the same problem with FBI "profilers". After I studied some of their "miraculous" cases, it soon became evident they were predicting ranges of age, occupation etc., that fell smack in the middle of the curve of local, regional, or national demographics- not to mention putting forth "predictions" in broad general terms that anyone could derive from common sense extrapolation of the evidence. Some think it is amazing that when a victim is bound with duct tape or electricians tape, or electrical wire, these FBI folks are brilliant predicting the criminal is a "handyman". Yet when a victim is tied with rope, I have yet to hear them predict that the criminal is a cowboy. It is even funnier when the psychiactric profilers enter the picture- as if criminal behavior is a mystery that isn't in most abnormal psych text books. In fact, when you hear their predictions, it is right out of the text books.
Imagine predicting that a serial killer of sexually molested teenage boys having an occupation that brings him into contact with young people ? Tough prediction isn't it. Well when they caught one guy, his occupation didn't bring him into contact with teenage boys, but he had a hobby of being a clown- so that brought him into contact with children, but not in the age range he killed - but it "fit" their prediction- give me a break. Profiling is hardly a science or of any value. Psychics do the same thing.
posted on March 9, 2001 10:57:04 AM new
reamond - I may not be positive about John Edwards, but I KNOW that there are people who have true psychic powers.
There is a woman in my area named Greta Alexander. She is a quiet unassuming woman who has helped police in Illinois find the buried bodies of 4 or 5 missing children. I'm talking about literally taking the police to the exact spot where they are. I'd call that proof positive.
posted on March 9, 2001 11:10:55 AM new
first over - thanks for the links. It's what I expected from a magazine call Skeptical, BUT....they were interesting and definitely give me some second thoughts. I haven't changed my mind yet, but I'm definitely more skeptical.
jamesoblivion - I'm certain Ms. Alexander didn't murder these children, so please! tell me the other possibilities. I'm not a sucker and I didn't just fall off the turnip truck, but people who refuse to believe anything drive me crazy.
posted on March 9, 2001 11:19:53 AM newrhondalee65-
Greta Alexander's putative psychic powers were scrutinized in a book titled Psychic Slueths, in a chapter called "A product of the Media: Greta Alexander" by Ward Lucas.
posted on March 9, 2001 11:20:19 AM new
No, I doubt she murdered them. That was a (bad) joke. Maybe she has a crack team of private investigators working for her who have found that information out. There are a lot of possibilities, I'm sure someone who studies psychics could do better then I. You assume she can't know this information. Maybe we just don't know how she came across it.
posted on March 9, 2001 11:49:27 AM new
It will be very interesting to see if any of the practitioners or believers in astrology that frequent the Round Table post to this thread.
posted on March 9, 2001 12:50:53 PM new
james - No need to apologize, I didn't mean you specifically, just venting. (I need to take the time to learn how to do smilies)
firstover - Apparently you spend alot of time studying this subject. Is it because of total disbelief or looking for the real thing? - OOPS james says there is no such "real thing"!
Hope I don't sound like a total idiot that believes in everything (though just last week I DID see Bigfoot in my backyard as I was rising in the alien space ship, where I was abducted!) - just trying to learn more about psychic phenomena and specifically John Edward. If he is a fraud - I'm going to be VERY pissed off.
posted on March 9, 2001 12:54:00 PM new
firstover - I forgot something - Greta used to come into where I worked before I was married and raising my children - no article will change my mind about her.
posted on March 9, 2001 01:33:58 PM new
Criminal "pyschics" read newspapers and have insiders on police departments that feed them info - just as reporters do. There are also no media reports of when psychics get it wrong.
It isn't news when psychics get it wrong, which is nearly 99% of the time, as any of us can get it right 1% of the time. Even a broken clock tells the right time twice a day.
No one would tune in or buy a newspapers headlined " PSYCHIC GETS PREDICTION COMPLETELY WRONG AGAIN !!" But the one time they are somewhat correct, it is reported. None of the psychics will submit to scientific testing either - they don't want the gravy train derailed.
The Amazing Randi is one of the smartest uncoverer of fakes going. But he could hardly get in the media if he got hit by a meteror. Why ? The media doesn't want to confuse their sheep. Psychic bullsh*t sells.
posted on March 9, 2001 02:42:59 PM new
Hi Rhonda,
You said - Apparently you spend alot of time studying this subject. Is it because of total disbelief or looking for the real thing?
You may be sorry you asked, this is going to be long I guess it started about 10 years ago when I happened upon a book at the library. It was on UFO's by Timothy Good. I started skimming through it and found it very interesting. He wasn't a raving lunatic and did a very methodical history of UFO's with scores of examples. It was a large book (400 pages?) and seemed to be well researched. So I signed it out and must have read it in two days. I was excited about what he had to say despite some marginal examples he probably could have left out. It didn't seem like a typcial UFO book because he let the reader make up their own minds, i.e., not a lot of editorializing, "just the facts, ma'am."
I didn't buy everything he had to say, but there was enough left over to make me want to learn more. In retrospect I was probably influenced by the sheer volume of anecdotes. Even if only a small percentage of them were true... I read more books; good, bad and ugly. I still thought there might be something to it, so I kept looking for answers.
In those days before cheap internet access, I BBS'ed. I started reading the Fidonet UFO forum. Some posters there were either trolls or seriously wacked out. Even the more literate ones were very dogmatic. However, also posting to that forum were "skeptics". They had good questions. I started to think much more critically. To cut to the chase, what the UFOlogists had were a lot of sightings, guesses and interpretations of what these UFO's were, but NO physical evidence. Many sightings could be explained away and some couldn't (very few) but that didn't mean UFO's were extraterrestrial. When you consider the vast distances UFO's would have to travel to get here, the burden of proof that UFO's were from outer space, IMO, hadn't been met. (I could talk a lot more about this but I'll just continue with the story).
At the same time I was reading the UFO forum, I started reading other forums. I had never been religious, but I found the debating on the HOLYSMOKE forum to be fascinating and entertaining. I also read the EVOLUTION, SKEPTIC and a couple other forums. Anyway, the debating that took place made a skeptic out me.
So to finally answer your question I didn't come from a postion of total disbelief or belief. I sort of stumbled into it. I know many people think (not saying you) that skeptics have closed minds, but a good way to think of it is having a closed mind with a welcome mat out front. Come knock on my door, but I'm not going to let just anything come in. If you leave the door open, a lot of flies get in
As far as Greta is concerned, she sounds like she was a nice person. Maybe she really believed in her own powers and her press clippings. But that doesn't mean she had those powers. Belief proves nothing. The fact is, no psychic as ever passed a test done under controlled circumstances, despite what you may have heard or others have claimed. James Randi has over $1 million for anyone who can demonstrate paranormal abilities. I think the money is safe
And no, you don't "sound like a total idiot". That you actually took time to read the articles I linked to shows that there is hope for you yet.
Helen - thanks!
[ edited by firstover on Mar 14, 2001 05:05 AM ]
posted on March 9, 2001 02:45:07 PM new
Let's shift gears - or psychics. Has anyone ever heard anything about Sylvia Brown? She appears on the Montel Wiliams Show regularly. She and Montel are the best of friends. I've read her books and listened to her tapes. I like her.
Also, I would like to reiterate that I have met with psychics that were clueless. I also met with one that was SO accurate about specific things, that there is no way she could have been faking. I can tell when someone is "fishing" in order to make accurate observations. This lady told me SPECIFIC things that she couldn't have possibly known. I'm not talking about that general crap like "you're going to become sick" (everyone gets sick at some time) or "you're going to meet a dark haired man". I mean specific exact things about a situation that was specific to ME that she predicted and which ultimately happened within two months. Not two years. Two MONTHS.
Say what you want... I know what I know. By the way, I believe "psychics" (aka prophets)were responsible for writing the Bible. Think about it.
