posted on February 27, 2010 10:07:33 AM new
You call the purse new it was used as soon as it left the store. I see it may have a history of rejections and may be designer crap. The bosses wife or maybe the boss herself didn't like it. So they gave to your daughter ( may have gone passed the return time or could have been re-gifted multiple times.) daughter gave it thumbs down and passed it on to you. You looked it said I'll never use this thing and sold it to the customer. She at least tried to like it by taking it on a test run. It fell flat now like every good women every where she wants her money back so she can buy other stuff.
You realize that your opportunity to make big bucks on something that cost nothing is going out the window. This is upsetting and seen as unfair when it isn't. Two choices now either you give the buyer back all her money or PP will deduct it from your account. Pick number one you'll feel better about it later.
posted on February 27, 2010 11:22:04 AM new
merrie, the question has been asked a few times - was the same purse returned to you? If you are unsure take and have it authenticated.
Further, alldings' example only applies when the parties are in an equal position. The rule assumes that the item returned is in the same condition as when it left the seller's possession.
You are under no obligation to refund full value for the item, as the item's value has been diminished by the buyer's actions.
Unless you are a branch of Nordstrom's, you have no obligation to refund full purchase price. Further, you would be justified in returning the purse to the buyer by insured delivery.
In this instance, regardless of your return policy, you do not have to accept the item in an condition other than as sold.
In the future, simply state in your return policy that returns/refunds, will not be accepted or issued on items with the tags removed.
Stress the following - the key concern to your current position is that since the tag has been removed, there is no factual way of determining that the bag that has been returned, is the same bag, and just might be counterfeit.
posted on February 27, 2010 11:26:20 AM new
Come on. Any reasonably responsible individual knows that if you buy something and decide to return if (for reasons other than defective merchandise) it should come back as it was taken. Why wait till it leaves the store to call it used? If someone tries on a coat in the store, do they move it to the "used clothing section"? Or imagine saying to the clerk, "I want to try this on. Please take off all the labels and tags."
Whether the item was unwanted, crap, a color that didn't match her outfit, or just ugly as sin is irrelevant. You don't clip the tags until you know you want to keep it. The likely scenario here is that purchaser (or someone) took it out, decided that they didn't like it or wouldn't be using it, and wanted their money back. This person should consider looking into the designer bag rental services, and not using sellers (whether on eBay or at their local department store) as a backup wardrobe.
Since eBay asks for merchandise to be described accurately, this can no longer be re-listed as "new", and the seller should not have to take the hit (although, thanks to Paypal, they probably will).
The moral of the story is that, however unfair it seems, it is at a minimum, outrageously risky to sell designer accessories on eBay.
posted on February 27, 2010 01:32:31 PM new
Whew alldings, you are wrong on so many levels. My daughter works for a dentist, they give the girls this type of purse every year. My daughter just had twin daughters and could use the money more than the purse.
"She at least tried to like it by taking it on a test run. It fell flat now like every good women every where she wants her money back so she can buy other stuff." WOW!! I wish the store that sold these bags looked at it like that. If the tag is removed, you've bought it, baby!!
posted on February 27, 2010 01:49:36 PM new
kozersky: I cannot be sure the purse returned is the one sent since the tag was removed. I do not normally sell this type of item, so I did not do all the things I should have to protect myself.
However this turns out I have learned a valuable lesson. I will mark the item invisabily if it is type of item that warrants it.I have restated my return policy. I have left follow-up feedback. I have blocked the buyer.
In my Ebay response I wrote, just what you said, that the item was not returned in the condition is was sent and is possibly not the same purse.She fully admits in her statement that she removed the tags and tried her items in the purse. I think she used the purse for an outing (a rental) and now wants to move on to another style. If she just wanted to try the purse out, removing the tags would not be essential. The Ebay rep I spoke to on the phone said I was not under any obligation to give her a refund. I had her repeat it 3 times since it seemed too simplistic and probably is.
I am a very honest seller would never cheat anyone so it always comes as a surprise when someone tries to pull a fast one. When I told her she could return the bag I said the tags must still be attached. She returned the bag any way even though by her own admission she removed the tags as soon as she got the bag.It took her 10 days after receipt of purse to post it back.
posted on February 27, 2010 01:54:18 PM new
PS: my daughter "made out" just fine since mom gave her the money as soon as the FB had been left. She offered to return the money to me (very nice girl), but I told her, no problem. We'll see what happens.So, yes, "alldings," my daughter with 3 week old twins and a 2 year old "made BIG BUCKS!!"
This also made me think what an issue this would be for people who sell things on consignment on Ebay since you never know what is going to happen even after you think the transaction was completed.
**********
An item is considered "New" when it meets the following guidelines:
It's in the original condition from the manufacturer, distributor, or retailer.
It has not been refurbished or used for any purpose.
It has no known defects or damages.
Note: Item condition is not an indication of the item's age. If you know the age of the item, specify the creation and/or release date of the item (for example, Fall 2008) in the listing description.
**********
I also do not agree with the statement that PayPal always sides with the buyer. That has not been my experience.
I have had PayPal refuse to refund a customer once I presented them with factual details of the transaction. Fortunely my experiences with bad buyers have been few but at the first sign of trouble I always start documenting everything with a log of what transpires. This includes pictures (both before and after if needed), phone call log with date/time/people, emails, etc. PayPal will defend the seller if they feel a buyer is trying to take advantage of the system.
Just to make a point, a buyer contacted me for a refund because I listed an item as new but it had a datecode that was 1 year older than the datecode currently shipping from the manufacturer. An older datecode had nothing to do with function or value of the item. In fact a shipment from the manufacturer would have cost the customer at least 30% more than they paid me. Regardless, I told the buyer they were welcome to ship the item back and as I state in my return policy, I would refund their purchase price but not shipping costs.
The buyer whined that they did not want to pay for shipping and opened a NAD dispute with PayPal. Since the item was as described according to ebay's guidelines, PayPal ruled in my favor.
Damariscotta, I too have been thinking that this buyer is taking advantage of ebay sellers instead of using a handbag rental service. It is much cheaper to pay postage than it would be to rent a name-brand bag.
There is no doubt that the buyer removing the tags from the bag and then "taking it for a test drive" changed its condition from NWT to USED. Re-gifting does not devalue a new item unless the item starts showing handling, has shelf-wear, odors or too much gift tape reside [g].
posted on February 27, 2010 07:55:47 PM new
LT I'm an old softy In roughly 1500 eBay transactions I refunded buyers all 4 of them despite phony excuses and outright lies I think I issued one neg. Sent back 2 things was promptly refunded and had 100% positive FB on 3 different accounts.
eBay selling was a profitable hobby, I moved on to other projects but like to keep in touch with this group.
posted on February 27, 2010 10:11:05 PM new
I guess I am just an old meanie but I think people who lie or try to bend the rules are being very disrespectful. Taking the easy way out by putting up with their antics only encourages them to do the same to someone else.
I have multiple IDs on ebay and over ten thousand transactions as a seller. I also do business on other websites. Out of all those transactions as a seller, the percentage of disputes has been been very few. On ebay, I have only had 2 neutrals and 1 neg as a seller.
Through the years of dealing with customers in store-front retail and online, I have learned that most disputes can be handled in a civilized manner when you are dealing with a civilized person but I have also learned that there will always be a few people who will insist upon being unreasonable jerks. I have little tolerance for those types and they are not the ones that deserve my generosity.
I prefer to use my resources to reward my good customers. The bad ones can take a walk.
posted on February 28, 2010 03:37:47 PM new
I would stick to your guns on this one. For a few reasons... 1) she is taking advantage of eBay's system to return this 2) she deserves to learn a major lesson 3) I am guessing she has done this before based on how quickly she has filed her dispute.
I would hold onto the item and continue to provide all information as eBay requests. If she didn't respond to you via eBay's system admitting she removed the tags, I would contact eBay immediately and find out how you can submit that information to them. They need evidence of her admitting her actions. Hopefully she responded via eBay. If not, I would make sure that when you contact eBay to tell them that she is circumventing eBay's messaging system when she admitted using the purse.
Finally, even if you lose to her in the end, do not accept that as the end. I would follow up with eBay that the item was not returned as it was sold and she devalued the item. My past conversations with eBay reps is that they will have you return the item to eBay. Whether they actually do this is left to be seen, but in this instance, I wouldn't hesitate to take them up on it. The more people who follow their guidelines the more likely eBay is to realize how their policies negatively affect sellers and why they are losing more people.
posted on March 3, 2010 06:11:54 AM new
UPDATE, update.
I was going to post here yesterday to get advice on how to proceed. She opened the dispute last Friday. I responded with all of the info. Had to do it 3 times to get all the facts in since I was restricted to 1000 characters.Heard nothing more from her and since I do not have any experience with customers "disputing" me, I was going to ask for advice on how to proceed. Was at my daughter's yesterday. When I go home, got a notice that she had elevated the dispute to Customer Support.
2 minutes later I got an email that the case had been closed in my favor!!You do NOT need to refund.
Wow!! I am still willing to work something out with the buyer, but she has chosen this route.
posted on March 3, 2010 11:42:52 AM new
merrie, you do not have to "work" anything out with this buyer. Your only responsibility is to send the purse back to her.
Why are you wasting energy on this sale - it is complete and over, over, over.
Do you really believe that she was concerned abut you? Her way of working things out was asking for a full refund from ebay, and leaving you with a purse that was devalued by her actions - if it was even the same purse.
You are lucky. Move on from this one - run do not look back.
posted on March 3, 2010 02:09:38 PM new
do nothing! do not email her, do not contact her. if she leaves negative feedback i would immediately email ebay to have them review it based on the circumstances.
by your story and the circumstances that led to eBay's decision, you were in the right. it was your bidder that caused this situation.
she will likely now turn to Paypal and/or her credit card company. It is likely that eBay will refund this seller her money from their own pocket. this happened to me with a buyer who was very difficult and refused to cooperate.
posted on March 3, 2010 06:15:33 PM new
Good for you! As someone else mentioned, if she wanted to take a designer purse for a test drive, she should have bought it at Nordstrom's. I have a friend who worked at Nordstroms during college. He had to accept the return of an altered tuxedo with a smile and "come back again" - the tux still had a piece of wedding cake in the pocket.
posted on March 3, 2010 09:04:42 PM new
YEH Merrie! Lets hope the next seller she tries this with will stick to their guns and she will have to find a new place to take her test drives.
posted on March 4, 2010 09:21:32 AM new
Nordstroms will take anything and everything back. I had a friend that worked for Nordy's. She said she took back a return on a pair of jeans they never sold. The manager had to find a sku for the item since none existed.
I can't remember the last time I bought something at Nordstroms, but their customer service is very good (or at least their return policy is).
posted on March 4, 2010 10:16:16 AM new
Let's hope that eBay is aware that this buyer is also a designer handbag seller. She knew full well the harm she was doing when she removed the tags. She should not get a refund but I think she should get to keep the bag. I would feel funny about listing it again anyway and now you don't know if she pulled a switcheroo. (Frankly I can't see any other reason for her attempting to return a bag with tags removed). I wouldn't want to risk my reputation by relisting a bag of unknown authenticity.
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posted on March 4, 2010 03:32:07 PM new
maybe I'm out of line here but I wouldn't return the bag unless eBay told me to. I think they paid for it and it's a moot point by now. I wouldn't contact the buyer any more.
posted on March 5, 2010 08:02:07 AM new
I would only return it once the buyer contacted me and asked for it to be returned. I would also charge her the original shipping cost to accommodate the return. Why should a seller cough up the dough to make a return on a claim that was deemed frivolous by eBay.
I'm not sure if it would be better for the seller to simply send a simple email (via eBay) stating this or not. Any thoughts???
I was thinking something like, "Unfortunately, your return did not meet the requirements we agreed upon because the tags were removed and it was used while in your possession. I would like to return the bag to you, however I will need payment to cover the cost of returning it. If you do not wish to have the item returned, please let me know and I will donate it to a charity on your behalf and mail you the donation receipt."
This puts the decision on the bidder, and also shows the seller is being responsible in continuing to work with her. It also shows that the seller is not going to relist the item. I wouldn't donate anything until you are absolutely certain that she won't try to pursue this via Paypal and/or a Credit Card chargeback. If you don't hear from her after 90 days, I would then donate it and still send her the donation receipt. At least she can deduct the donation from her taxes and you still show you are responsible.
posted on March 5, 2010 08:08:17 AM new
It sounds like your buyer who is also a designer bag seller herself is looking for a tag!
*
There is no 'Global savings glut',only wild horses and loose bankers.
posted on March 6, 2010 05:15:25 PM new
shagmidmod: Good advice.
I have not heard from the buyer since the decision. I decided to wait as many of you suggested and not one peep from her. Don't really know what to make of that. The only thing that comes to mind is that she did switch the bags and now has an authentic purse and is just going to forget about it.
posted on March 6, 2010 06:19:26 PM new
I guess I can not really think why I would need to have its authenticity proved. If the buyer contacts me, I will gladly return the purse to her. If she does not, I am not sure what I will do. I do not think it is proper to sell it even if it is the same purse I sold her.
posted on March 6, 2010 07:04:48 PM new
If the purse was paid with a credit card through Paypal, there may well be a reason for authentication. If the purse was paid with PayPal funds, there will be no further charge-back claims.
Further, buyer silence is no guarantee that the matter is finished. I am surprised that you would not verify the purse.
If it is not authentic, it should not be donated as an original, nor should it be returned to the buyer.
Why not return to buyer with no authentication? The buyer could easily claim that you have sent her a knock-off, instead of the original purse she returned to you.
