posted on May 3, 2001 05:33:55 PM new
Helen, Im sorry for your loss, but kraftdinner is in need of assistance and your petty arguing is getting ridiculous.
posted on May 3, 2001 05:40:22 PM new
Sorry to derail the thread for the moment, krafty....
HJW, as a parent my sincere sympathies on your loss, for I cannot begin to imagine the depth of your pain.....As a parent with a troubled teen, currently traveling the "find a counselor who can reach him" road, I can understand how difficult that can be...Most I have met so far are interested, not in my son's well being, but sadly in the $$ that they will receive from my insurance company....I KNOW he needs help & I KNOW that "I" cannot do it, but finding someone is a long hard road...
posted on May 3, 2001 05:41:24 PM new
This is hard to post. A little over a decade ago, a younger sibling of mine died before he was 30. For various reasons, I basically had to handle everything.
I never realized how much I'd been denying my pain and anger until one day when I was driving my grandparents home from the cemetery (almost a year later) and completely lost it - screaming and crying about the injustice of some p**cks living to a ripe old age while **** never even got to see 30.
I went home that evening and made myself feel all the pain of the loss and all the anger at the injustice of that short life. And any time after that, instead of turning away from the pain, I faced it and allowed it to happen.
Mostly now, there is only pain when I feel he's missed a milestone in my life I would have liked to have shared with him.
kraftdinner, I don't know whether a counselor would help you or not. But I think the fact that you are aware of your feelings will help you. If the bitterness/anger continues, you might want to seek some help, whether a counselor, support group, or even a book.
My mom has allowed this same death to ruin her life, and can never see any good or beauty anymore - I would hate to see this happen to anyone else.
posted on May 3, 2001 05:45:49 PM new
I don't know if this will help you, Kraft, but I feel that each of us is here on this earth for a specific time and a specific reason. We each have our own journey in life separate from everyone else. Yet we are all here sharing the experience with one another. I also know that one day we will all go home to be with our Creator. This is my own belief, and I wanted to share it with you, for whatever it's worth.
If that didn't help, here's a hug {{{HUG}}}. I wish I could do more.
I believe I stated that some may people have bad opinions of counsellors based on bad experiences:
Maybe they had a bad experience with a counselor (and it happens, but hey you can have a bad experience with a medical doctor too).
I still contend that yours or anyone's bad experience -- well, no, actually I'd call yours a horrible experience -- is not sufficient reason to write off the whole world of mental health providers. Maybe for you personally it is. But just as there are people who have bad results, there are those who have good ones.
I'm one of the people who had a good experience. My therapist was one of the most qualified, intelligent people I have ever known. I haven't seen her in a year or more now but the other night, out of the blue, she called me to see how I'm doing. She didn't have to do that. But she did. Sunday night at 10:30, no less, when she should have been relaxing or enjoying her weekend.
I'll never be able to repay her for what she did for me, but in my own way I try by advising people who may need help to seek it, and to not be swayed by the same kind of anti-therapy sentiment that kept me from getting help for so long.
posted on May 3, 2001 05:54:57 PM new
I used to walk to work at one job I had, a short cut took me through an old cemetery. I don't think I ever walked through that cemetery without giving some thought to what it represented. Looking at the dates, the names, on the stones. It always made me keenly aware of death and it's inevitability. I always wondered about the lives and the grief those stone represented. Maybe some walks through some old cemeteries might help you know you aren't alone. It might be good therapy for anyone and make them appreciate the people and things around them more.
posted on May 3, 2001 06:22:54 PM new
My company just left and I've been reading everyone's posts and crying like a baby! There's some pretty wonderful people here, and a MILLION hugs back to you for taking the time to post!!
I appreciate hearing about your own situations and what you've been through. I know everyone has to go through it at some point. Emotional pain.....it sure has a lasting effect, doesn't it?
I have thought about counselling. The funeral home where my dad was has started a group thing and I might just call them, but I don't know how I'd handle a room full of crying people......I certainly don't have anything to lose, but it's not so much grief I feel but more the anger I have at God or the person in charge of life-spans. I think you expect certain things to go "normally" in your life, but to lose everyone in your family makes me mad. I feel like screaming "why did you have to go and take my dad now?". Then, I think, maybe because I'm the last one left, I must be Satan's daughter or something! And this is no joke.....I've actually looked all over my scalp and everywhere else to see if I can see 666 anywhere!
One thing, is that your posts have helped me feel different. That's funny. When did I post this?.....5 hours ago?
posted on May 3, 2001 06:32:17 PM new
kraftdinner, you are definitely not alone in dealing with this stuff. I'm glad you're talking, reading, and reaching out.
give the group you mentioned a call and make a trial visit. I got a hunch you won't find a room of crying people, at least not all of them. IMHO you might find a group of ordinary people like you that need to express their feelings to others who are going through the same thing. Many people are numb for a long time and might not cry as much as you think. If you don't like the group, then try something else and all you've lost is the time for one meeting.
posted on May 3, 2001 06:33:11 PM new
kraftdinner, first, I'm sorry about your father's death. Grief and anger are totally normal feelings. If it's affecting how you function in the world, or if you see it as a problem, you might look for a grief counselor. Some counselors will do short term crisis counseling, anywhere from 1 to 5 sessions. Some of them are very good, some not. If you're not comfortable talking to someone else about how you feel, mybidness has a good point about a journal.
Helen, that is every parent's nightmare come true, and the hardest pain of all to deal with. I am so sorry.
posted on May 3, 2001 06:34:21 PM new
I almost did not post to this thread, because it brings home some not so nice memories for me, but I saw sadie999's post and I thought how much like my mother her mother sounds. When one of my sisters' died in an accident 30 years ago, my mother just withdrew into herself, she did not go and get help, she turned within herself and all the rest of us kids' suffered for it. Now do not get me wrong, I love my mother, and she always looked after us and made sure we had whatever we needed, but she has turned into a bitter old woman. My mother still to this day, can not see the colour of a rainbow, to her it would just be pink, not a beautiful pink. She should have gotten help a long time ago, and now she has no friends because she is so negative about everything. It would be sad to be so bitter and never have any friends.
I agree with group therapy, especially if it is for other people going through what you yourself are going through. That is what I would do , I would try and find a group close to you. Your hospital should be able to help or as someone else said maybe look in your phone book. I am not one for social workers, the ones' that I have met have not cut it for me. But that is not to say that some are not good, I just have not met them yet. I wish you continued Good Luck.
posted on May 3, 2001 06:37:01 PM new
Perhaps a group session would be better than one on one, kraftdinner? Hearing others express the same things you may be feeling will help maybe. At least you wont feel so alone. If it doesnt work out, maybe you will "connect" with someone there that you could discuss things with, and vice versa. At least give it a try.
posted on May 3, 2001 06:42:30 PM new
Hi Kraftdinner, I just now popped in here and saw your thread. I'm so sorry to hear about your loss.
Some of you might remember that I lost my Dad last August at the age of 71 to congestive heart failure. We basically knew for the last 3 years of his life that he was living on "borrowed time." My sister, myself, and my Mom were with him at the Cleveland Clinic Palliative Care Unit (inhouse Hospice) when he died.
4 years ago my Great Aunt Mary passed away after dying by inches over 5 years in a nursing home. She was my "special" person, the person who unconditionally loved me, who supported me, who encouraged me, she was very very important to me. Losing her in that way rocked my world, and I feared I would never regain my footing.
Losing those two people left a rift in my heart that will never completely heal. Yes, I have moved on, but, the pain never completely leaves me. It can return at the strangest moments, a smell, a song, my dad's chair, then wham, I am right back in the midst of the pain.
But, time does lessen the pain, and each time my breath is taken away, I get it back a little quicker. I miss them like crazy, and life wasn't fair, but where is it written that life must be fair?
The stages of grief can take different lengths of time for people to work through. There are good Grief Counselors and Support Groups out there. By all means, if you think you might benefit from talking to someone, then look into it. Don't run from the sorrow, remembering our missing loved ones doesn't mean we are not moving on. Good luck to you...sorry I didn't phrase my comments better.
posted on May 3, 2001 06:45:29 PM new
British Sterling cologne makes me think of my dad. Thanks for the reminder, Meya. They may be gone, but not really. They live forever in our memories.
I am so sorry to hear of your loss too. I can't imagine the pain you are carrying, even now. Everyone deals with a loss in their own way. Even though hard for you to discuss, it eases my mind as to why you said the things you did about counseling. Though I've only read your posts for a short while, I knew that was not how you normally would post on such a subject. I felt there had to be some reasoning behind your opinion.
posted on May 3, 2001 07:48:06 PM new((kraftdinner)). That's first - the hug. I'm so sorry you lost your dad.
When my mom died (December of 1990), it was a long time coming. We knew it was coming, and it was in many ways a relief, but Christmas is still horrid for me after all these years. Mother's Day is still bittersweet. And while for the most part I've healed, there are still days I hurt just as bad as I ever did. It's like a toothache almost...it's always there, usually a dull ache, and sometimes I get the urge to touch it, to see how much it will hurt, and it hurts a lot.
Someone told me that to fully grieve takes about 10 years when you lose someone that close to you. I don't know if that's true or not, but I can tell you it changes. That loss, that ache, becomes a part of who you are to the point where it doesn't hurt so much on a moment to moment basis.
Don't know if I explained that very well. But my heart goes out to you. If you want to talk or rant or cry, my email is below. I can't fix it for you, but I can listen.
(Interjecting here) I want to thank you for listening to me many times about my mom, you had lots of good helpful advice. Thank you. There's others who listened too (y'all know who you are) and I appreciate all the ears and shoulders freely given to me.
sorry, I'm getting very teary eyed in this thread and must say goodbye for the night.
posted on May 3, 2001 08:01:55 PM newHelen - this subject may be too sensitive for a public board like this, and that is likely why folks have offered email. I'm sorry you were offended, but my offer still stands.
My son is blessed with a wonderful counsellor that we found last fall after the bottom fell out here. They are out there. But just like any professional - there are good and bad.
As enchanted said, Elizabeth Kubler-Ross has some wonderful stuff to help you understand what you are going through. The group with the funeral home may help you too.
For me, when Mom died, it had been six and a half years of caring for her. I was 25 when she died, and I thought I had grieved already. I was wrong - I didn't truly grieve until my son was born. And I fell apart. It's taken a long time to put myself back together, and there are still days....
posted on May 3, 2001 10:09:54 PM new
Kraftdinner ~
Have you tried sitting down and writing a letter to your Dad? Telling him how you felt about him, how much he meant to you? How things have changed for you? Sometimes putting things in writing makes them easier to deal with. Still painful, but easier as time goes by.
I am one who truly believes he will hear what you say and he will help you find the strength to go on.
I am very sorry for you loss - my heart goes out to you. Please remember that while you can no longer see his face, you will forever carry him in your heart.
And when you feel down, stop in and post - this is a great place to get hugs!
posted on May 3, 2001 10:26:45 PM new
kraftdinner,
I could write a book on dealing with loss. In 1998 my son died. It has been nearly three years and all that I can say for sure is that I am not sure how to deal with the pain. I wake up each day and I try to go through the motions. Somtimes I even appear to be good at it. Even after 2+ years though I am still learning how to move forward with life. There are a few things that help me that I can share with you.
I give myself the weekends to mourn. During the week I have responsiblities that I have to take care of-- I can't fall apart. The weekends (Sad-ur-day) as we refer to it... are all mine. I can cry as I need to. I can just stay in bed if I feel like it. No guilt. Family has learned that this is what I need in order to cope.
I had to move away from the place where my son died. I'm not sure if this applies for you or not, but I couldn't handle all of the physical reminders. We still go back and visit every month or two, but I had to move in order to begin to heal.
You mention that you have no other family and this is HUGELY important-- you need some really super good friends (friends CAN be family too). You need people to lean on and to talk to. You need someone who will call you on those days when things are super hard-- people who you don't need to explain why you don't feel like talking but need to be NEAR someone else. My husband is this person for me. I SO hope that you have someone.
Counseling is good. Group counseling is good. Please call your local hospital and they will refer you to a group in your town.
Everything you emntion is totally normal, but it is really good to be able to talk about it. Anger is good too. It is hard. but good.
I didn't even read the whole thread so if I am repeating what others have already suggested I apologize. I just saw your post and thought I might be able to help a little bit.
Take care of yourself!!!!
posted on May 4, 2001 07:53:36 AM new
kraftdinner & to others, It has taken me awhile to think about this and to post. A quick background: 3 yrs. ago my father died in my arms; 6 months later my father in law died in my arms; 10 yrs ago my little son died in my arms and when you are embracing these very dear loved ones you actually feel something "leave"(call it spirit or whatever). Someone else here said that there are many stages to grief and OH BOY is that RIGHT! When my son died, (and this may sound a little "sick" to some and that is okay) I asked my brother to take pictures of him at the funeral (even in the casket) and God bless him, he did. I walked around for so long in some kind of daze and showed those pictures to anybody and everybody I could! OMG those poor people! What they must have thought! and bless them, they all looked and told me how beautiful he is. I do think of him every day; I know now this is all part of how to handle grief and we all do it in different ways. Some of us may need help doing it and it doesn't necessarily mean you need a professional to do this; just talk talk talk talk!! Don't worry about what the person may think of you; it is natural for you to think "I can't bring up the death of my dad, because it will make this person feel uncomfortable." Kraftdinner, you will be surprised how many people do not bring it up with you because they are afraid that it will make YOU uncomfortable. I will tell you this also, Kraftdinner: just by posting this thread, you NEED someone to talk to! You are angry, your relatives are gone, and you THINK you do not have "someone close to confide in". Yes you do. Doesn't matter if you think they are "close"...just bring it up and talk. If they are not close, it doesn't matter anyway and you will be shocked by the reaction! People do care (no I don't have rose colored glasses). Oh my....sorry this is so long and I know you said you are not asking for sympathy, but you have mine anyway......hang in there, hon. Janet
posted on May 4, 2001 08:49:01 AM newAshlandtrader I think that the way krs expresses himself in this type of thread might be called "Tough Love". I don't think it is meant to be disrespectful...at least I would like to think that it is not so.
My sincere sympathy to you on your many losses...and the courage to go on in a way that was beneficial to you.
posted on May 4, 2001 08:49:40 AM newKraftdinner Thank you for starting this conversation. I think you've helped a lot of people along the way of seeking help for yourself. That's always so nice to see. There are times that I wish that I had said something to a person that I knew was grieving but, as you've said, nanastuff we're often afraid of saying the wrong thing, so we just don't say anything at all. We humans are wierd, aren't we?
I'm indebted to all of you who have shared your losses for reminding me of how precious life is and how important and needed compassion is.
Rancher I'd like to offer my insight as to seeking professional help for your son. When I worked at the Psychiatric hospital I saw a lot of people getting help. Some had seemed beyond help. But, I also saw a lot of pompous overblown know it all psychiatrist that were only interested in how long the insurance lasted... sad but true.
I was there for about six years and my job was mostly in writing up reports as to the psychiatrist and psychologist progress with the patients. What an interesting job that was. What I discovered through writing the reports and through my interaction with the patients was that as a general rule you shouldn't place a lot of value in the "title" as much as you should look for compassion, understanding and compatability. IOW, find someone that can really relate and understand what you and your son are going through. You might be surprised to find that that's not necessarily going to be the one with the most degrees plastered on the wall. Most importantly, keep looking for help until you're completely confident that you're getting it. One of the best counselors - and by that I mean he got the best results - in the group I worked with had less "formal" education than any of the others in the entire hospital. But, he cared about his people and they knew it. That goes a long way.
Helen You sent a shudder up my spine when you mentioned the psychiatrist with his "praying hands" - $350.00 dollar an hour smile and distant demeanor. One of the psychiatrist I worked for fit that description to a tee. More than one client told me that he was completely worthless. I have a lot of empathy for what you went through. When we're in a vulnerable position we tend to place a lot of faith in "professionals" whether it's a priest or a doctor. When we put our faith in them and they fail us so miserably it's a gut kick... a real betrayal that is hard to put words to. I'm so sorry that you weren't able to find the help you needed for your daughter. You're awfully brave IMO for sharing here as you have.
edited for sp and again on second thought.
Not paranoid anywhere else but here!
[ edited by Mybiddness on May 4, 2001 08:53 AM ]
[ edited by Mybiddness on May 4, 2001 09:45 AM ]
posted on May 4, 2001 10:28:16 AM new
Ken "They're dead. They're not feeling anything. You're luckier, for now. Get on with it."
In a way, you are right. You do come off as very cruel, and I refuse to believe you really mean it that way. I do see what you are saying. Death is not for the dead....death (funerals, ect.) is for the living). Luck??? May I ask what the hell luck has to do with anything? Yes, we all must "get on with it"....I do agree there. What other option is there but another death, whether it is mental or physical?.
