posted on December 16, 2000 08:51:21 PM new
Thanks CharlieOne.
So far I responded to the first and last neg with:
1) I'm sorry. I do not lie on customs forms.
On #4--the nasty one-- I'm sorry. I still will not lie on the customs forms.
I am sure if I should even bother with #2 and #3.
I had already left her positive feedback. Do I go in and leave a bad rating and explain that the deal went south when she was unhappy that I didn't lie on the customs form and mark it as a gift?
I am usually of the opinion that I would rather take the high road, but I would also hate it if some other poor seller wasn't warned and had to deal with her on their own without you guys to help! Sheesh! What a mess!
*************
Fill hungry tummys this Holiday Season with the NFL and Chunky Soup: http://www.chunky.com/click_cans.cfm
posted on December 16, 2000 09:33:49 PM new
I just had a thought that might help (I'm a Canadian).
The Canadian customs form print-out which the customer received (on which the charges are listed) has a form on the back. The customer can challenge the fees by filling out the form. There is even a 1-800 number she can call for assistance.
If your customer feels she was falsely charged, it is up to her to prove it to Canada Customs. It's not your problem. It's between her and Canada Customs. You would have been breaking the law to indicate that the item was a gift from you to her,as it was not.
(By the way, I have successfully challenged a charge by Canada Customs and received a refund so when I talk about the process, I speak from experience.)
Of course, in her case the refund request will be rejected. It has no merit.
Irene
[ edited by stockticker on Dec 16, 2000 09:34 PM ]
posted on December 16, 2000 09:43:05 PM newNeg the WITCH! Then email auction abuse and explain that this is all over her anger that you wouldn't lie on a Customs form and ask them to remove the negs she left you, stating that they are outright lies and will effect your ability to do business on Yahoo.
posted on December 16, 2000 10:22:24 PM new
In response to "Do I go in and leave a bad rating and explain.....". I would, but this is me, I would go in and revise the rating. Change it to 'Poor'. not bad, (even though she was a real pain). I would think about the impact of my words as to how potential new bidders may read them. When they see she rated you 'Bad', and you only revised to 'Poor" that makes you more level headed, and has the same affect on her record.
My rating would say, (this is me now, not everyone thinks the same, especially me), "Buyer confirmed delivery & happy with items. Unhappy with Canadian customs fees. Blames me for postal fees, as I refused to lie on claims document." I think that pretty much covers it. I would not respond to any other comment she makes. Otherwise she will never stop making them. The more hot headed she shows herself to be, the better for you. Like you mentioned, take the high ground.
posted on December 17, 2000 12:20:15 AM new
I wouldn't email her again.
If you get the package back in the mail, send her HER BID PRICE in the form of a postal money order (for which you have a receipt, and she can't claim didn't arrive, because it can be traced), and hope that's the end of it. Let her eat the two-way shipping costs. She's going to neg you whether you refund the shipping or not, so you might as well not pay for it out of YOUR pocket.
Your initial post didn't SAY she was also a seller. THAT EXPLAINS A LOT!
Spare me the sellers who want to buy from me---the WORST people to sell to!!!!!!!!! Often rude, highly demanding, complaining about a $1.00 packaging fee added to low book rate when THEIR AUCTIONS show a $5.00 charge to ship a 4 ounce item.
When my bidder has a high feedback rating a *warning bell* goes off in my head, and I look to see if he/she is a seller (which is almost always the case). Then I send my standard EOA email and brace myself for the reply, which is usually along the lines of your letters from this bidder.
Meaning, you can't please them regardless WHAT you do. Just try to get through it as quickly as possible, and blacklist so you don't have to deal with them again. LOL
posted on December 17, 2000 04:02:17 AM newstockticker Thanks. I will try to give her this information. Perhaps it will help. I am really not excited about initiating anymore e-mails back and forth, but perhaps it will help her holidays. At the very least, it gives me information for the future. Thanks!
CharlieOne Thanks for the great feedbacks. Concise is difficult for me, but those are pretty comprehensive. Thanks again!
Granee I didn't realize she sold (okay, I made the mistake of seeing her feedback rating and didn't bother to look--bad bad BAD!) until all of this was happening and I went to look to see if she was listed as being in the same place to which the package was shipped and actually looked at her feedback and read it. Ack!
posted on December 17, 2000 04:14:19 AM new
CharlieOne, I took your advice and re-rated her poor with your feedback, and this one:
"Quick to pay. Had she asked it to be checked as gift on customs form, I would have told her I do not break the law by lying on claims forms"
I also said:
"I'm sorry. I don't lie on customs forms."
On the last one, I just used yours again. I will be glad when this one is over but I feel like I will be hearing from her for quite a while. I am just putting all of her e-mails into their own little folder for posterity.
When I get a moment, I am going to pursue the matter with Abuse at Yahoo as well. I do feel better about my answers to her negs though now. Thanks so much!
posted on December 17, 2000 04:16:48 AM new
Oh and I just received a note from another customer asking about the "psycho". At least she gave me a chance to calmly explain the problem. At least I think it was calmly.
*************
Fill hungry tummys this Holiday Season with the NFL and Chunky Soup: http://www.chunky.com/click_cans.cfm
posted on December 17, 2000 01:57:20 PM newlabbie1
I'm glad things are hopefully coming to an end for you. I, too, have to agree with granee. 'Sellers' are not good buyers, most of the time. The two worst FB problems I had were with other sellers. One immigrant from feebay. Proceeded to tell me how he does things, didn't like my requiring delivery address in my EOA, (explained, as I do not mail out of the United States), even though I need it anyway before shipping. Wrote a huge long mail explaining how he did it his way for years on feebay, and didn't have time to waste doing such stupid things. The very last sentence was "If you must have my address, here it is!!!!" What a confused fool. Spent probably 10 - 20 minutes complaining about the waste of time to give it up, instead of just doing it? The rest of the transaction went very badly as well, a real hot head.
There were two other illogical "sellers' added to the first had the IQ of 25, if you put all three together. One swore I was ripping her off in the shipping charges. My auction states very clearly the mailing fee is $3.20 for priority mailing. That's exactly what it is. I do not charge anyone "handling" fees, ever. When this dunce called me a "thief", and "fraud" by overcharging for mailing, that's when Y! stepped in, finally, and cleared that trash from my file. If a "seller" bids on my auctions now, they better have very excellent FB, if not, I cancel and blacklist. They are not worth the trouble. I look very closely at their FB. If they show any harshness towards their customers, or make remarks I feel are out of line, they are blacklisted pronto. If they are that way with their customers, look out as a buyer. Some sellers, not all of course, are just not good buyers. They can't take the seller hat off, and put on the buyers hat and be polite and respectful. Being controlling of auctions has taken them over.
posted on December 17, 2000 02:38:31 PM new
CharlieOne--Man! Where DO these folks come from?
As I thought she would, after I left my one feedback per transaction with the explanations that I listed above, she came back to call me a liar, theif, blah blah blah and is still e-mailing me.
Each time it is a different story where she is pristine and I am the worst seller she has ever seen. I am not answering her and will not answer her as I feel this will only encourage her to continue her tirade.
In the last e-mail she stated that she turned me in to Yahoo as a dishonest seller who is unethical blah blah blah. She is really unraveling over this. It's pretty amazing.
I must assume that if Yahoo cares to look at both of our feedbacks both received and given, they will figure out the truth. <sigh>
I expect that she will play herself out sometime soon--at least by the end of the holidays. Perhaps it is holiday stress.
I just put her e-mails into a little folder and save them in case I need them. I am amazed!
*************
Fill hungry tummys this Holiday Season with the NFL and Chunky Soup: http://www.chunky.com/click_cans.cfm
posted on December 17, 2000 03:33:49 PM newlabbie1
I have a folder for that type of "buyer" too. It's my 'A'/potential 'A's. I won't fill in what comes after 'A', it's self explanatory. The second "buyer" I mentioned about calling me a "fraud", and "thief" went on, and on, and on. I told her in FB if she continued with those lies I would make her prove them in court. I e-mailed Yahoo! and told them if they allowed them to stand in their public forum, they would be co-defendants. That's when they were cleared from my file. Being retired, I have time to go to another state. After all, when I win I get a paid vacation . As I suggested, I would let her ramble on, and don't be concerned about her holiday. You are entitled to enjoy yours, and she can just pout and shout; who cares.
Hey, Grape!
That little angel is just a 'little' to innocent looking to me. There must be a little devil in there somewhere, I bet you have a hard time maintaining those Angel wings and that innocent 'Angel buyer' attitude . Just kidding, I bet sellers are very happy when you put your 'Angel buyer' cap on .
posted on December 17, 2000 05:35:41 PM newCharlieOne "pout and shout"--I love that line!
VM I think that was the 3rd thing I did right after sputtering and then starting this thread. Thanks for the reminder though--I confess, it did take me a while to remember that was available.
grapey Hmmm.... LOL What a, uh well an, uh Angel!
I am sure it looks just like you. BTW, do Angels call people "smart butt"?
posted on December 17, 2000 06:17:35 PM new
What a nightmare customer.
I expect it's moot as US usually does not usually collect duty on shipments under $200.00 but if requested would not be due on a return of your own merchandise.
posted on December 18, 2000 03:55:20 AM new
First of all, I sympathize with both sides of this argument.
I live in Canada, so maybe I can shed some light on this subject. I have done online auctions as a buyer and a seller for about 2 years, so I feel that I have experience on both sides of the coin.
To start this off, THE US POST OFFICE DOES NOT CARE IF THE ITEM IS MERCHANDISE OR A GIFT!!!! They are shipping it outside of the country, so they don't care what is in it, unless it is some sort of contraband. Some people in the US may feel that they are breaking some sort of law by marking it as a gift when it really is merchandise, but jaywalking is also against the law. Whoever is working at the post office will never question you whether it is a gift or merchandise. Better yet, keep some of those green customs stickers at home and fill them out at home like I do.
The people who do care what is in the box, is Canada Customs. <B>The reason why they do care, is so that they can make money.</B> I will explain here:
When something larger than a normal envelope comes into Canada, it will be examined. I will explain in steps:
1) Packages marked GIFT will be looked at. If the return address seems like it is from a friend or relative, it likely won't be opened and will pass through without any fees marked on it.
2) Packages marked MERCHANDISE will always get opened by Canada Customs, which by the way is operated by Revenue Canada (the Canadian equivalent of the IRS).
When a package marked merchandise comes through, it will get opened. As soon as it gets opened, whoever receiving the package will get charged a $5.00 handling fee. Even if it is an empty box, and they open it, the person will get charged that $5.00 handling fee.
Once they open it and see what is inside, they will asses a value on the item and check it against the value that the sender declared. If it is about right, they let the declared value stand. If it is not what they believe, they will put their own value on it.
Once they have a value set, they will then convert the value into Canadian dollars. Right now the CDN dollar is low, so here is the conversion rate:
$1.00 U.S. equals approx. $1.55 CDN
Then once they have the CDN dollar equivalent established, they charge a 7% GST (Goods and Services Tax). This is a tax that all Canadians pay when they buy something at any store.
Finally, they ship it to the nearest post office for the buyer to pick up and pay their fees.
So, if you understand what I'm saying, Canada Customs is simply out to make money.
I'll show an example:
Chuck the Canadian wins a video game on Yahoo! auctions for $50.00. He sends Andy the American $50.00 U.S., which is equal to about $78 CDN. Andy gets the money, leaves feedback, puts the game in a small box and takes it to the Post Office.
Andy the pays about $4 or $5 for it to be shipped. Also, he must declare a value on the game, so he writes $50 on the green sticker and checks the MERCHANDISE box, because he believes that it is merchandise.
A week later Chuck gets a card in his mailbox telling him that there is a package to pick up at the PO. He goes to pick it up and is asked to pay the following charges:
$5.00 CDN Handling fee (for Customs to open it and look inside)
$50.00 x 1.55 exchange rate = $27.50 CDN
$77.50 x 7% GST = $5.43 CDN
Total fees that Chuck pays at PO: $37.93 CDN
So, now you can see why Chuck, and all Canadians, will ask the American seller to mark the GIFT box and declare a value of zero. By doing so, Andy will save Chuck $37.93 CDN.
It really shouldn't be any inconvienience to mark the gift rather than the merchandise box, and you will save the Canadian many fees in the end. Also, if a Canadian bidder knows that he will not have to worry about paying fees when he deals with you as opposed to dealing with someone else, you could gain a valuable repeat customer.
And trust me, nothing will happen to you if you mark gift instead of merchandise, even when you know that it is merchandise. The USPS doesn't care, since they don't receive the duty fees or any of that. They only ship it to Canada and let Canada Customs deal with it.
I would love to hear what others have to say about this topic and I hope that everyone understands what I am trying to get across.
posted on December 18, 2000 04:21:36 AM new
I do see what you are saying, however if memory serves, there have been numerous threads, on various boards, regarding this very issue. in the past. The bottom line always came down to seller should not mark merchandise as a gift, it's not right, it's a lie.
At the risk of sounding rude I also would have to respond to the fact that Canada's customs is "out to make money" is really not my problem as a USA seller. I love my Canadian customers and would hate to lose their business, but it is not my problem that their goverment charges taxes. My goverment charges taxes too, and I don't like it either. That's life.
In Labbie's case, this buyer has acted abusive and un-professional and his/her behavior is a black mark on his/her Canadian peers. Just as the bad sellers/buyers from the USA set an example for their peers. Bad behavior is just that, and should not be tolerated. On-line auction buyers and sellers need to stick together and keep this industry honest by using the tools available to us, scrutinizing feedback, blacklisting, cancelling bids, etc...
Sorry if this is long winded, happens this early in the morning when the coffee is kicking in
kerrydaway here and there......
kerrydaway1 at that other place
posted on December 18, 2000 05:06:57 AM new
labbie:
I know it is hard to believe anyone is so stupid not to know about tarriffs, and obviously she did or she wouldn’t have made an issue of telling you about it being a gift (she is just stupid when it comes to law) - But I had a Canadian customer who also was lacking in knowledge about incoming tariff taxes. She was nice about it, but didn't seem to know they existed!
I don't buy the "I don't understand English," as well as she is using it - I don't think anyone will pay any attention to her negative -
I had a man threaten a negative last evening in an attempt to get me to accept a return, which I was willing to do anyway - but I felt like writing him and telling him how stupid that is - a negative in a huge sea of positives, is to be expected - and a useless threat, at least to me. I think most intelligent buyers realize you can't please everyone all of the time.
I personally don't respond to negative comments except on my feedback......
I personally black list not only dead beats, but anyone I found extremely difficult to deal with, as I just don't need the hassle.
I was hoping your were using the same ID on Yahoo, and went over to get the ID of this "pain in the derričre," customer of yours, to put them on my black list so I'd never have to contend with her, but alas, "labbie," and "labbie1" on Yahoo are both new, so apparently you don't use that on Yahoo.
Anytime my associates or myself encounter such a pain the derričre, we trade their ID around and black list them so we won't ever have to be bothered with them.
posted on December 18, 2000 07:02:36 AM newrobboikfootball
We have enough problems with some buyers as it is. The problems usually are generated by someone not following our auction text guidelines. Or refusing to cooperate in a respectful manner. I don't feel we need to be taught, in a seminar, 'How to cheat the Canadian Customs out of revenue'. If you feel the customs fees are to severe, you need to contact your side of the issue, not ours. How can we expect our buyers to deal with us honestly, and respectfully, if we lack those attributes ourselves?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
[ edited by CharlieOne on Dec 18, 2000 07:06 AM ]
posted on December 18, 2000 07:32:48 AM newYour location on this world doesn't matter.
It seems when this issue comes up on this board, or in auction transactions. Some people make a big issue out of what country you are in? I had a person from Canada, and one from Australia, both make sarcastic remarks towards me because I do not mail out of the United States, as is my choice. Those distasteful remarks included the fact I was American? If you are a rude, dishonest and disrespectful person. It makes no matter, what part of this earth you are on. It's the same as a wild animal. No matter where it was born, or where you move it to on this earth, it is still wild.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
[ edited by CharlieOne on Dec 18, 2000 07:35 AM ]
posted on December 18, 2000 08:00:00 AM new
I WAS NOT GOING TO POST HERE AGAIN, BECAUSE I THOUGHT THIS ISSUE WAS SETTLED, BUT I SEE I HAVE TO PLAIN TALK TO THIS ISSUE, SO LISTEN UP !!!
1) out of the thousands of transaction i have made, 98% of my customers have been very nice , and supportive. out of the 2% that was not nice and supportive was from canada, reason, simple. it is not the sellers fault in u.s.a. or anywhere else for that matter. what is the problem that canada has one of the worse postal service dept, in the world, next to mexico, they are blood suckers, trying to get a dollar anyway they can, when you as a seller, is sucked into their rules, you become part of the greed, even tho you think you are not, for this reason alone i have a policy in force, no canada sales under any conditions, except my personal friends, who are very kind, and understanding, and to place on the order that it is a gift, instead of the plain truth, is a lie, it is not a gift, it is a item won on a u.s.a. auction, sent across country lines. and yes it is breaking the law. and yes you can go to jail over this issue, if, and i say if they wanted to press the issue strongly enough. to tamper with the u.s. post office is a federal offense, and in canada it gets worse. why do you think the people in canada get so upset at this transaction, and others like it, they want a free ride, except, it won't happen, it is a lie, it is breaking the law, and bad business practice. my business does fine without canada, i don't need the headache, and the bad feedback problems, just be the feedback this person left shows she is not playing with a full deck, her elevator doesn't go to the top floor, she is short of a few marbles, when she was born they asked her what size brains shw wanted, she thought trains, and asked for a small set. "BLAME IT ON CANADA"
P.S. BY THE WAY OUT OF THOUSANDS OF TRANSACTIONS, ON DIFFERENT SITES, I HAVE ONLY THREE NEGATIVES FROM PEOPLE WHO NEVER BOUGHT FROM ME, JUST LEFT BAD FEEDBACK, BECAUSE I WOULDN'T SHIP FREE, OR REDUCE RATES, CAN YOU GUESS WHERE THEIR FROM ???
c a n a d a ...!!!
posted on December 18, 2000 08:09:30 AM new
I respect your position, but I have had dozens of successful sales to Canadian buyers with absolutly no problems. They have all been polite and professional, and were all aware that they would have to pay duty on packages I sent to them. As I believe someone else said earlier in this thread, Labbie got the "one bad apple". I hope I don't have to go through this kind of thing in the future, but it would not stop me from trading worldwide.
kerrydaway here and there......
kerrydaway1 at that other place
posted on December 18, 2000 09:30:26 AM newrobboikfootball Thank you for your insights. However, in this case, they are not applicable.
First, the buyer states that she was giving them as a gift. She never asked me to mark the items as a gift for customs. Had she done so before I shipped them, I would have explained that I will not break the law by marking items as a gift when they are merchandise and she could have at that point chosen to cancel the transaction. That is why, after she wrote the first e-mail after receiving the package stating that she was pleased with the merchandise, but displeased with the Canadian fees because it was a gift, I tried to explain what the term "gift" on the customs form referred to.
I would rather let the buyer back out of a deal prior to completion than to have an unhappy customer. True, she should have asked before bidding if I would have a problem marking the merchandise as a "gift" for customs, but I still would have had no problem canceling the transaction if the terms were not satisfactory to her. That is just the kind of seller I am. I prefer happy customers...
Second, all bidders should take shipping costs (which involve not only the cost of shipping/handling/taxes from the auction seller when applicable, but also import fees, etc. when applicable.) into account when deciding how much they wish to bid.
All of the customer's abusive actions and story changing that followed aside, if this customer was unaware of the import fees, it was still her responsibility to pay them and not mine to have to refund. If I found similar fees that I was unaware of, I would not be happy that the government charged those fees, but I would take it as a lesson learned and not expect a seller to pay for my lack of knowlege.
If the cost of the items plus shipping and import fees are more than you wish to pay--don't bid. It is not my responsibility to break laws that can put my freedom in jeoparday for the sake of saving the customer fees that they should have taken into account before bidding. If they find the import fees objectionable then they should find a "local" seller who is selling the same merchandise. In my case, this item is widely available in Canada as well as the US.
posted on December 19, 2000 10:51:28 AM new
Update:
I just received this e-mail from Yahoo regarding my abuse report on this buyer:
********************
"Hello:
Thank you for your email.
In the interest of impartiality, Yahoo! does not edit ratings or
feedback. If you feel that you have been unfairly rated by a
buyer/seller, you can post feedback regarding that buyer/seller. This
will warn others of the potential risks of dealing with this
buyer/seller, and will give you a chance to explain your side of the
story to others that are reading your rating.
Under certain circumstances, you might wish to block specific Yahoo!
Auctions users from your auctions completely. Yahoo! Auctions offers
sellers a powerful tool, called the "Blacklist" for just this purpose.
To add a user's Yahoo! ID to your Blacklist, follow these steps:
1. Click on the "Options" link, located in the top-right part of most
Yahoo! Auctions pages.
2. Under the "Seller Options" column, click on the "Edit Blacklist"
link.
3. Enter the Yahoo! ID of the user you would like to add to your
Blacklist into the appropriate field, and then click on the "Add to
Blacklist" button.
4. Click on the "Finished" button.
Thank you for taking the time to write us.
Regards,
Yahoo! Auctions Abuse Team
http://auctions.yahoo.com/
[email protected]"
***************
You know, they are right! That blacklist thing is really great!
Everytime I want to spit and sputter about the lack of help from Yahoo, I think about Ebay and how they apparently just offhandedly suspend people, end auctions, VERO and whatever else they feel like and how often I have said, Gee guys, can't we get Ebay back to what it puports to be? A Venue?!
Well, Yahoo is closer to that wish and I guess there are things we must deal with--but the fact that they DO give us the opportunity to blacklist is very helpful!
Happy holidays and thanks for all of the help and support!
posted on December 19, 2000 11:19:17 AM newlabbie1
That is the standard canned mail you get on such complaints. I've gotten several of those. I keep them in a 'Yahoo! Mail' folder. Just to see if they ever revise it. Sometimes, if your very lucky, a real human being will take the time to read it, instead of clicking on 'send number XX' canned message. If you do, and they are one of the truly understanding people, they will edit the FB, and remove it. Provided the FB is very abrasive, defamatory, or slanderous. Otherwise, no deal. That also, depends on interpretation of the FB.
heygrape
Now I see why there's a little gap in the 'halo' .
posted on December 19, 2000 11:41:14 AM new
Example of that canned response sent to me:
I had a bidder once, a few months back, bid on one of my items. He had a questionable FB file, so I canceled the bid. He then went to another of my auctions under another ID, and bid on an item he didn't want. As soon as he received the winners notice from Y!, he went in an gave me a neg? Two minutes after the auction closed. The neg was related to the other auction where his bid was canceled? Made some very unfounded comments as to how badly I treated him canceling his bid. on the other auction.
I mailed Y! Customer Care several times about this and asked them to look at why this person gave me the neg on another auction, which was unrelated. Plus, he had no intention of paying for what he won under this ID. He just wanted to give me a 'bad', anyway he could. How can they let an obvious retaliatory neg, unrelated to the actual auction it was given, stand? That neg still stands, and this ID has been abandoned by this "buyer". It has a -1, months later, that is the rating I gave him. So much for Customer Care justice. Sometimes you get lucky, most times you don't.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
[ edited by CharlieOne on Dec 19, 2000 12:18 PM ]
posted on December 19, 2000 01:03:41 PM newCharlieOne Well, if I cannot get these things removed, I just have to hope that future customers will look at it and her feedbacks under her name and understand.
On the bright side, it would seem that my latest customers have read the feedback from that bad customer and when they are leaving feedback, they are really going above and beyond with the glowing praises--bless 'em!
I just love most of my customers! They are the BEST!
. Just kidding, I bet sellers are very happy when you put your 'Angel buyer' cap on 
.
Charlie
