posted on June 24, 2001 09:54:14 AM new
Yeah, arrest that woman!
It's been some while since, but I've little doubt that hoards of swollen bellied, bug infested, over produced babies can be found easily enough in this country if you go to the trouble to get out of your car and walk (do you dare?) down the dirt side streets of several medium sized cities. Bigger citie may have the undeserved luxury of paving and potholes.
Seriously, this is not to reflect any attitude on my part toward anywhere in the south, but it really wasn't so long ago that a friend and I, lost and a little drunk in Dothan, Alabama somehow found ourseves a block or two off of Main St. in the seamier side of town and found just such babies along with their families living in what was for us at the time unimaginable squallor. LOTS of babies, or toddlers as they say in the commercials. My friend was native to Brooklyn and I, of course, to the second most monied area of California. It really was quite a shock to our youthful idealistic idea of America (the Beautiful). I don't know what became of him, but since then I've found similar examples of such world-class poverty in places in nearly every state of the union, and could right now take a twenty minute drive to find it again.
So you say hogwash, hepburn? Well, I know you don't see it on your daily soaps, and they sure don't give it coverage on the Fox network.
posted on June 24, 2001 10:11:04 AM newWhy should they worry, when there are bleeding hearts everywhere, urging for handouts because THEY didn't think about what laying on that straw mat would result in. So no, they dont need birth control. They need to keep their legs shut and pants hitched up.
---
Hogwash. I dont see barefoot children picking flies out of sores being shown on television from within the USA, and our country begging for handouts from other countries. Someone dumb enough to keep popping out kids with swollen bellies due to malnutrition would have their kids taken away and be locked up for child endangerment. I also cant picture someone dying of starvation laying in a tent or on straw mat somewhere amd finding the energy to do what it makes to HAVE children. And from what I see, it isnt just one child..its many, from the same woman.
Just because you don't see it on TV doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
Hunger in The Good Ol' US of A
- Every 53 minutes an American child dies because of the effects of malnutrition and poverty, and four million American children under age 12 go to bed hungry every night while 9.6 million more are at risk of hunger. (CCHIP - Community Childhood Hunger Identification Project and Childrens Defense Fund)
- Approximately 13.6 million children under age 12 in the United States -- 29 percent -- live in families that must cope with hunger or the risk of hunger during some part of one or more months of the year. (FRAC - Food Research & Action Center)
Beyond the inaccuracies in the posts and the utter lack of compassion shown by the poster I quoted, I find the "popping kids out" schtick and the derisive statements about third-world women misogynistic and extremely offensive.
posted on June 24, 2001 10:50:35 AM new
I must have pushed some buttons. Find it offensive, do you? So do I. I find it offensive that human beings capable of populizing the world have no thought to what can result, given they are too caught up in their own pleasures at the moment. I find it offensive that children starve. I find it offensive that even if BC was given, it probably wouldnt be used, just as our teenagers here in the good ol US of A dont use it. I find it offensive that Im supposed to say "awwwww" everytime I see one of those children, while the mother of that child is home with the other 10 and they are not standing in front of the camera because it wouldnt be so effective. I find it offensive that these bleeding hearts go to other countries and beg for them, but ignore our own homeless and starving children. I also find it offensive that I am supposed to be politically correct by keeping my offensiveness of supposed thoughts to myself and supposedly watch my "soaps". This is my opinion, and when opinions are no longer allowed to be posted, THEN I will cease. Until then, deal with it, just as I deal with the opposing opinions I don't agree with.
[ edited by hepburn on Jun 24, 2001 10:56 AM ]
posted on June 24, 2001 10:53:24 AM new
I dont object to birth control, Helen. I object to the lack of caring from those "making the decision" to have children and they cant take care of themselves, much less a child.
posted on June 24, 2001 11:40:05 AM new
Of course. I am not completely set in my ways, you know.
I read in today's paper that 43% of the chocolake we eat is supplied from the Ivory Coast. Seems children are still slaves in 2001, all so other countries can have that candy bar or mocha in their coffee. Most of those children don't even know what chocolate is. Some (the ones interviewed or investigated) were sold by their own very large families, for a total of 110.00, to help feed the youngest.
Quote: "Americans spend 13 million a year on chocolate, but most of them are as ignorant of where it comes from as the boys who harvest cocoa beans are about where their beans go. More cocoa beans come from Ivory Coast than from anywhere else in the world. More than 47,300 tons of them were shipped to the US through Philadelphia and Brooklyn."
One boy was 12 when a slave trader promised him a bicycle and 150.00 a year to help feed his family. What he got was beatings with a bicycle chain and slavery. Instead of this childs mother wondering where he is, or even cares, he was more or less sold to pay for those she keeps having. Others were sold, to help pay for those she keeps having. Now that is what I call offensive.
posted on June 24, 2001 11:43:36 AM new
Hepburn, I had to go out for a few minutes.
Just want to suggest that you chill a bit. I'm sure that you don't intend to be as offensive as you posts indicate. It doesn't matter if you find this poverty 45 minutes from your house or in a third world country,
It's a problem that cannot be ignored.
Hunger, poverty and ignorance are offensive and intolerable but the poor people who are trying to deal with it are not.
posted on June 24, 2001 11:57:14 AM new
Helen, my posts sound offensive to some, I am sure. But, I am passionate about some things, and anything that has to do with children or childrens rights, (or animals) tends to make me more "verbal" in my thinking. Not everyone thinks alike and some have the capabilities to put it in more flowery phrases. Im not very flowery.
I dont need to chill out and when I do think I need to, I will be the first to admit it and say so. Nothing anyone has said offends me as to their beliefs. What does offend me is the refusal to accept that I have a differing view and instead of debate on why I may be wrong, innuendos appear from those who don't want to acknowledge that my opinions do differ. I have debated in quite a few of these threads with others, but I haven't commented on that particular poster just because they dont agree. There is a difference.
edited to add "that particular poster" does not mean any set person. It is a general "particular poster".
[ edited by hepburn on Jun 24, 2001 11:59 AM ]
posted on June 24, 2001 12:07:57 PM newHepburn
You have pushed some buttons, but you haven't mad me angry(can't speak for anyone else). You have scared me. This is the attitude that exists today. People are starving and dying and the only advice that you have to offer is "close your legs". That is BS. It won't fix the problem because most people wont do it. We need to fix the problem in a more reasonable permanent way. Every time I see one of those commercials that you don't like I have one thought,"Education". We need to educate these people on how to take care of themselves. All the aid in the world won't do one bit of good unless we teach them how to take care of themselves. We like to believe that because we live in America that this is not a problem, but it is.This is how much we care about the homeless and hungry: When I lived in Philly there was a huge article in the paper on the homeless problem. They werent concerned that people were starving and freezing to death. They were concerned that it was driving tourists away. I found that very sad. I also find it very sad that you do not take this problem seriously and the only advice you have to offer is "Close your legs".
____________________________ [email protected]
Caravaggio/confusedandsleepy are not my names at eBay.
posted on June 24, 2001 12:24:29 PM new
Helen,
Again you have made a good point. It should not be thought that because a person cannot support a child it means they don't care. Even Yates probably cared for her children no matter what she did to them in the end. I can't begin to imagine the suffering that she is going through. Not only did she lose her kids, but it was by her own hand. She probably did love them. She seems to think that they were defective and it was her fault and that is why she killed them. It is so hard to make a judgement on this one. It is just such a sad case.
____________________________ [email protected]
Caravaggio/confusedandsleepy are not my names at eBay.
posted on June 24, 2001 12:28:56 PM newWe need to educate these people on how to take care of themselves. All the aid in the world won't do one bit of good unless we teach them how to take care of themselves.
I agree with that.
Helen, that is my view. They dont care. If they did, they would take every precaution. What about the families that sell their children to help feed the newest arrivals? Is that education? Does BC help? Even if they had it at their disposal, educational or otherwise, would it stop it? I think not.
posted on June 24, 2001 12:30:48 PM new
What is the answer, if education doesnt work? Do we, the world, supply BC? No? Then what do we do? Have them sterilized? No? I dont know the answer any more than anyone else does. I find it sad, as well as offensive, myself.
posted on June 24, 2001 12:58:20 PM new
There really is no answer, hepburn. They'll waste away and die off, just like populations of deer or coyote or any creature that continues to breed in an environment without predators and without a viable food source to sustain the ever-growing population. Only the strongest or most resourceful will survive.
It's cold to say it, but it seems to be nature's way.
posted on June 24, 2001 01:45:48 PM new
Hepburn is an honest woman who doesn't pander to popular opinion. I find that admirable, particularly in this environment.
And, sadly, I think Spaz is exactly right when he says:
"They'll waste away and die off, just like populations
of deer or coyote or any creature that continues to breed in an environment without
predators and without a viable food source to sustain the ever-growing population. Only
the strongest or most resourceful will survive."
We ARE merely a part of nature, though I'm confident some would find that thought offensive.
posted on June 24, 2001 02:09:53 PM new
What about responsibility from the men's side? If you talk about third world countries, more than half of the pregancies are caused by rape, not by choice, though it sounds like the women should be in control somehow. Men have to be more responsible in than just being sperm donors.
(punctuation)
[ edited by kraftdinner on Jun 24, 2001 02:12 PM ]
posted on June 24, 2001 02:18:49 PM new
kraftdinner...
You're talking about countries that practice female circumcision, right? The ones that want women to have lots of sex...as long as they don't enjoy it? Yup...those guys are lining up right now to take hold of those responsibilities...
posted on June 24, 2001 02:25:08 PM newWhat is the answer, if education doesnt work? Do we, the world, supply BC? No? Then what do we do? Have them sterilized? No? I dont know the answer any more than anyone else does. I find it sad, as well as offensive, myself.
If it is more to your liking prehaps a better suggestion would be to let Yates take care of them, no? Does that make you happier?With all the money that we have given some of these countries to "help" them we could have supplied BC to every woman several times over.
____________________________ [email protected]
Caravaggio/confusedandsleepy are not my names at eBay.
posted on June 24, 2001 03:29:59 PM new"They'll waste away and die off, just like populations of deer or coyote or any creature that continues to breed in an environment without predators and without a viable food source to sustain the ever-growing population. Only the strongest or most resourceful will survive."
How utterly ignorant a thing to say spoken by a pair who only through the sheerest accident of birth will possibly not share the fate they observe loftily, from on high.
No, they will not "waste away and die off", they will continue to breed at rates higher than they die by unless there is some mechanism of control. Control derived through education in birth control, and the provision of the means to avoid the results of the holocaustic imposition of civilized man into their natural order.
Take their fertile lands and push them into barren reaches so that gold, or oil, or diamonds, or land, or whatever else is in favor may be taken without their interference and then blame THEM for their failure to be "strong and resourceful?"
No, little protected darlings, WE, the collective we caused their fate and so we owe to them, the people we've made use of, a means to survive in spite of us.
I feel that I would be wrong to ignore what has transpired on this thread.
Expressed right here by Hepburn, Spazmodeous and Toke are the meanest, most vile, obnoxious and contemptible thoughts that I have ever read, illustrating mans inhumanity to man at it's very worst.
posted on June 24, 2001 04:30:22 PM new
Why is there no Government intervention when it comes to Birth Control, yet lotsa hands out for Food Stamps and the like?
No availability of BC? Limited information?
Norplant.
Implanted in girls at the onset of menstruation, no pills to remember, no messy diaphram, no "oops, looks like it ripped".
Totally reversible ~ just take it out.
Inexpensive.
Fast.
I remember growing up, waiting on line at the school for measles, mumps, rubella shots.
Just like they did for vaccines, why not line them up for Norplant?
Show them a three minute video on safe sex.
Hand out brochures.
Can't go back to school/get food stamps/medical assistance unless family shows proof that all females of child-bearing age have been trrained and implanted.
It's not rocket science.
So why isn't it being done?
Too barbaric?
Too controlling?
Why does this go on and on?
You don't have to agree and/or like those thoughts, but provided the CGs are abided by, those Users have the right to express their opinions as you are yours.
No matter which side of the fence you choose to sit, the CGs require respect and consideration of ALL Users by ALL Users.
You're talking about countries that practice female circumcision, right? The ones that want women to have lots of sex...as long as they don't enjoy it? Yup...those guys are lining up right now to take hold of those responsibilities...