posted on June 24, 2001 11:35:19 PM
Well, this is what I get for having the night shift. Just got home and trying to catch up. Too tired right now to reply to all the comments, so I will just say: LOL at spaz (if THIS is what Helen consideres vile, then she definetly has not read GB or AC), and if I have to be lumped in with someone, Im proud its with Toke and Spaz. And I also wish to say HI to Julesy while Im at it...even with a smiley
posted on June 24, 2001 11:48:58 PM
Aw hep, don't feel too bad. I was once deemed "beyond redemption" I hope that I never get that way (damning everyone who doesn't agree with me).
pssssst..... Hep - What's GB and AC, another msg. board?
[ edited by bobbi355 on Jun 24, 2001 11:51 PM ]
posted on June 26, 2001 07:41:25 AM
Did anyone here read "The Grapes of Wrath" and remember the ending where a man was within hours, or minutes, of dying of starvation in a corner of some barn? It wasn't all that long ago when we, in this country, had a sizeable segment of the population in danger of literally starving to death.
Hunger wasn't then, and isn't now, a question of people being too damn sorry to keep their legs together, as Hepburn quite neatly framed it in lowness of language dovetailing with lowness of idea. It is now, as it was then, directly caused by an economic system that kept land, and, by extension, wealth, and power, in the hands of a few, while a large number of people, non land owning people, survived at a subsistence level. There's no safety net there, as Hepburn so merrily supposes there is. No one is having children because they think the world is going to support them. Not one of those parents who slips below subsistence level and ends up on a mat, too weak to swat away a fly, cavalierly engages in sexual union thinking that anyone in the good ol' Usa is going to forgo one of the bon-bons we're stuffing in our faces when a Unicef commercial breaks into our happy Soapy/Oprahish/Judge of the Week existence so we can send them a case of beans.
They "DONT CARE" - The unspoken message behind this is - "They're not like us!" They don't have self-respect like we do! They don't have love for their children like we do! And what a comforting lie that is. No, of course they're not like us. They're hardly like people are they? They're not like us. The reason we're not hungry is because we're more virtuous than they are - we don't spread our legs indiscriminately like that, we care! They're below us, hardly human. Not even of this world - Two worlds away, in some mythical third world. The third world, where there are darker skinned people. They all look the same! It's that same woman, having all those children! Well, it looks the same to me, who can tell these "people" apart. These same people, these dark skinned people, have been starving for years!
Do you know that during the Irish famine boatloads of food and cattle were being shipped out of Irish ports to England, while Irish people used their last bit of energy to crawl to the edge of the sea, desperately scavenging for anything that washed up, too weak to even cook what they might find, and dying of dysentary as a result, if they were lucky enough to find anything? There was plenty of food in Ireland at the time. But the non-landowning class, who had been surviving mostly on potatoes, at a subsistence level, couldn't afford the food. When the blight came, their source of survival was taken away, and they slipped below the line, with horrifying result.
Now, in hindsight, we see the potato blight was used by the English as an attempt at genocide. And we can see that the "dust bowl" was used by large corporations to get subsistence level farmers off the land. But when we look at these people today, these people who look different than us, who look unattractive in their despair and poverty, what we see is people who DONT CARE. This is as ugly a view as the English view of the Irish. You don't see racism here? Yeah, the English of the time probably denied it too in regards to the Irish.
There's plenty of food in the countries were sizeable segements of the population are starving to death today. A lot of these countries export food, and yet people there are dying. The people in power, who control the wealth, eat. The ones who don't, starve.
But, gee, what's wrong with these "people??" I fed my baby in the car!! Yeah, they should just get up off that mat where they're lying there starving and breeding at the same time and jump in their cars and feed those babies!
posted on June 26, 2001 07:50:10 AMI fed my baby in the car!! Yeah, they should just get up off that mat where they're lying there starving and breeding at the same time and jump in their cars and feed those babies!
posted on June 26, 2001 08:07:57 AM
Sorry about that Sara.
donny Those were rough times to me. I have no idea what it's like to lie on a straw mat and have a starving kid. I also know that I don't have the means to go to another country and feed those kids. If you do, more power to ya
posted on June 26, 2001 08:26:50 AM
There's a long story behind that "frozen pizza" deal. When I was married to the Baptist fanatic, I didn't dare bring home pizza, sugared cereal, candy, in other words, "luxuries". I was used to cooking 3 meals a day, a lot of time from scratch. If I was going to the grocery store with a limited amount of money, I bought stuff for meals that could be eaten as a leftover the next day, like casseroles and things like that. But, like you said too Helen, some people don't have the knack for cooking and grab whatever is the easiest to fix. To my kids, frozen pizza would have just been a snack, and they would have been hungry again 2 hours later. Now that I live alone, I do enjoy the "luxury" of throwing a frozen pizza in the oven (especially Tombstone's oven-rising crust).
posted on June 26, 2001 08:34:11 AMHepburn - Sorry you've had to be the recipient of many insults just because you share your opinions. A lot of what you share, I totally agree with. (FWIW ) And even if I didn't agree with your opinions, I certainly feel you have the right to express them. The animosity from some who hold different opinions, never ceases to amaze me.
Mybiddness - FWIW - I have great respect for you and your reason for starting this thread.
With the facts that we have now been made aware of (understanding we haven't heard it all yet), I lean towards the side that says she should be held responsible, and this shouldn't be excused because of mental illness. I haven't decided if I feel she should receive the death penalty or not. I'd like to understand her motivations and history better. But the fact that she (an RN) admitted to contemplating this act for months weights heavily on me. So does the fact that she chose to have another child after experiencing this severe PPD in her other pregnancy.
I'm also one who feels we should take care of Americans first.
There are so many in our country that need help, in so many different ways. I just don't buy the concept that it is America's job/responsibility to take care of the whole world.
Donny made some very good points, especially about the governments of some countries that have the ability to feed (etc.) their own, but choose not to. It has also been reported that when the USA has made donations of food, supplies, (etc.) to other countries, that the authorities in charge of these governments (sometimes) don't even supply these needed goods to their own people. The US has had to take responsibility for seeing the food (etc) goes to those who need it....not to government officials who use it for their own purposes.
For those who feel I have no compassion or charity, that is not true. I feel that as individuals we have the opportunity to give freely to organizations (of our choosing) to help the needy/less fortunate and it doesn't need to be our (collective) society's responsibility (through our government).
posted on June 26, 2001 08:46:01 AM
Aw jeeeeze Helen - Was I supposed to copy and paste the exact quote?? SORRY It's very difficult to try and be civil around here when you've got to dissect every single word. I guess it's really not even worth it.
posted on June 26, 2001 08:47:32 AM
Donny, you like to twist what people say, dont you? Have at it. Oh, btw, what you think you read must have come from what you think yourself since you delved in it so neatly concerning what you THINK I was saying and what you THINK I was refering to as to race and what you THINK my motive was. You dont have to THINK about what the following phrase means, as I will say it plainly: Stick your opinion where the sun dont shine.
posted on June 26, 2001 08:48:11 AM"Donny made some very good points, especially about the governments of some countries that have the ability to feed (etc.) their own, but choose not to".
Donny doesn't need anyone to speak for her, but this twist of her post shouldn't stand without objection. The 'government' spoken of has been shown to have been willfully using the potato blight to kill off the Irish population. It was not chosing not to feed them, it was choosing to get rid of them. Maybe it's the same thing, and maybe that attitude drives much of the isolationist attitudes such as that just spoken.
posted on June 26, 2001 08:55:03 AM
Hey Hep, think about it for a sec. Is it really worth being ragged every time we state our own opinion? NOT. Anyway, I should be over at my other puter WORKING so I can go to the grocery store and buy the ingredients for my frugal cooking skills I think I'll have a pork sandwich from my leftover pork roast last night.
posted on June 26, 2001 09:33:24 AM
LOL @ but this twist of her post shouldn't stand without objection Right!! That being said by the twist-master himself. LOL
And HJW - I have no problem with the fact that you and I have never agreed. Whether you like it or not, there are others out there who think and feel differently with your opinions.
posted on June 26, 2001 10:07:42 AM
It really scares me that there are people in this world who care as little as some of the people on this thread appear to.
What I have gathered from some posters on this thread, with my meager IQ, is that people who starve deserve it and if someone has a mental illness we should waste no time strapping them into old sparky. With this latest development in the Yates case, as one poster put it in another thread, this may have been the straw that pushed her over the edge. [email protected]
Caravaggio/confusedandsleepy are not my names at eBay.
posted on June 26, 2001 10:57:02 AM
Just dropping by to leave a thought: With all the time being spent in front of your computer, perhaps a better world could be achieved if ya'll went out and did something about it rather than relieve your mind by jumping on each others opinions. Ta Ta. I am off to do some volunteer work at the local hospital. Smarmy smilies for those who need them and warm smilies for those who know where I am coming from.
posted on June 26, 2001 11:09:18 AM
Frankly, I don't know why some of these people can't just "keep their legs together." It's not like the sex drive is an intrinsic part of human nature or anything.
Take hubby and me for example -- whenever we feel the "sex drive" rearing its ugly head, we take a drive -- out in the country, in our new Lexus. So wonderfully relaxing. Why don't some of these people do this instead?
I understand not everyone can afford a Lexus, but even if their lesser-brand SUV is in the shop, how about renting a movie at Blockbuster and snuggling up for the evening with a big bowl of micro popcorn? Or if there's nothing new at Blockbuster, cable TV -- even basic cable -- offers a number of diverting programs that are just the thing for an intimate, "legs-together" evening of fun.
And speaking of TV, maybe if they stopped airing those programs featuring "undernourished," "poverty-stricken" people covered with flies, it would give these attention-seekers the incentive they need to get their act together!
It's all about choices, people.
PS. And speaking of those straw mats, we just got a couple of them down at Pier One for our entryway. They look fabulous! But having "relations" on them?? I don't think so - they cost almost ten dollars apiece!
posted on June 26, 2001 03:36:52 PM
"Smarmy" I wonder how much you would pay someone to read to, or write letters for, or sit and have a conversation with someone who is bedridden and lonely. Make a phone call for someone who cannot handle a phone and hold it to there ear so they can converse with a spouse who is also bedridden in a nursing home.
Yanno, folks just are not lined up around the corner itching to call that a job!
I hope that I never get that way (damning everyone who doesn't agree with me).
