posted on June 30, 2001 01:54:29 PM new
In a previous thread, I mentioned that the Republican dominated Oregon legislature planned to institute a redistricting plan that would have eliminated several democrats in favor of Republicans. The bill as proposed by the republicans bypassed the Democratic Governor's OK.
Of course, I got the usual hooting from the other side on here and shouts of "so what" and "it's been done before!" Now here is the rest of the story. I think you might like it.
The Democrats decided that the weak link in the Republican's plan was that they did not have enough members in the legislature to call a quorum. There needs to be a quorum to call a vote to get the process going. Therefore, the Democrats refused to participate and would not show up for work until this Saturday, when it was too late to pass such a measure. At that time, the matter would go to the Secretary of State to redraw the lines, a Democrat, who is likely to keep thing just how they are.
The Oregon Republicans, infuriated at being out-flanked so publicly, decided that if the Democrats would refuse to come to work, they would be FORCED to show up! So, the Republicans issued 25 Summons for the missing Democrats to force them to show up to make up a quorum and force the vote through the legislature as planned.
It didn't work out as planned, thankfully.
The democrats went into hiding and process servers could not find them at their usual abodes. It was discovered that they had all vacated the premises to a local Indian reservation that has run a wonderful resort for many years, Kanita Hot Springs. When the process servers tried to reach them there, they were made to go through the Tribal Council, who was not inclined to convene for some time to come.
In the meantime, the democrats were interviewed on the local media, deploring the Republican's plans as "Gestapo Tactics" and labeling them as being onerous and Fascists. I really think that people here in the Northwest really got a bang out of the whole affair.
Today, Saturday, the Democrats returned to pass much needed legislation before the session closed this Sunday.
At least in Oregon, the Democrats are showing solidarity and leadership qualities that ought to passed along. And if the Democrats could only see their way fit to become OUR advocates instead of Big Business's, they may regain some respect and have a chance this next election or two.
posted on June 30, 2001 03:02:52 PM new
Thanks Borillar...nice bit of news...Makes my day perfect, so far...
I can see that the Republican Party is beginning to sweat...VERY HEAVILY....You can see the rivulets of perspiration pouring down their back, by watching the PBS News or listening to NPR News...I Love It!....
I am now anxiously awaiting the outcome about Enron...Will Senate hold them in contempt if Enron and the other company, persist on refusing to turn over crucial documents? Stay tuned...
And now, with Cheney and his further heart problems, bushytail too, must be sweating....because the dude is nothing without his top men around him...Not only can he not speak intelligently, he cannot even generate an original thought...
posted on June 30, 2001 03:48:12 PM new
The Democrats in the Oregon legislature refused to meet and do the the peoples business? That is an interesting concept. It must be unique to the Democratic party.
posted on June 30, 2001 04:31:21 PM new
As a matter of fact, the Democrats have been a little slack about this lately and that is why this story is so refreshing.
posted on June 30, 2001 05:34:03 PM new
The poor republicans don't like their own tricky tricks played on them? Is that what I'm hearing here? Couldn't be. Not the same republicans who gloat incessantly over blocking voters from polling places with state run tailight parties.
Tell me I'm dreaming, Republicans don't whine like this.
posted on June 30, 2001 06:22:40 PM new
Texas is more progressive than most states, as our legislature can't cause but half as much mischief. They only meet every two years. Leap years would be better, but the Democrats keep blocking that change.
Bear with me please. I am not anywhere close to being as well versed as you when it comes to Oregon politics. I'm interested in a possible scenario that I can envision from your original post.
In 1991, just after any gerrymandering that occurred, US Representatives from Ore were 4-1 Democrat. The Ore State House was 32-28, and the Ore Senate was 20-10, both favoring the Democrats.
Fast forward to 2001. The Ore House is now 33-27, and the Senate is 16-14, both in favor of Republicans. The US Representative count is still 4-1 Democrats.
Now, could it not be possible, based on the -5 and -6 losses the Democrats have faced in the State House and Senate respectively, that perhaps it is indeed time for redistricting?
Regardless of political view, I have to chuckle at the actions of the Democrats. Going to a resort to avoid being served. Politics, you have to love it.
posted on July 1, 2001 01:12:00 AM new
Yes, Ron Wyden is a real man of the people. He's pro-consumer while at the same time, he's for business interests -- a good balance that I wish tey all had.
Deuce: I am not too sure of your question, "Now, could it not be possible, based on the -5 and -6 losses the Democrats have faced in the State House and Senate respectively, that perhaps it is indeed time for redistricting?"
While I have not paid much attention to local politics, I have noticed one election idea that has given Republicans the advantage. When it comes to political ads and articles, they try to avoid being associated with the Republican Party! Yup! They know that many Oregonians are not that familiar with Who belongs to Which political party, but they do recognize a name, like brand name recognition. The republicans figured that if they stopped letting everyone know that they were running for office on the republican ticket, that voters wouldn't hold that against them. And it's worked. I've concidered proposing a referendum that all political ads must contain political affliation! Unfortunately, in the recent past, many pro-consumer referendums and things that were passed by the voters of this state, the republicans went and reversed them in the Oregon legislature. I think that if they got fairly branded when voting time comes next, there will be a real upset in the makeup of the legislature.
posted on July 1, 2001 08:38:31 AM new
Borillar
I think that on the Federal Level, they must show a party affiliation, like for President.
Wasn't Oregon almost considered a split state?
Bush
713,577
(46.6%)
Gore
720,342
(47.1%)
That is pretty close isn't it, but then my state is Demorcratic majority.
And we have a moron as Gov., and anything that happens in the largest city here (Seattle) he passes the buck to the mayor.
posted on July 1, 2001 11:38:04 AM new"And we have a moron as Gov., "
Gary Locke is not a moron, but he is American Chinese on the Democratic ticket -- is that what you were referring to? Gary Locke is the brightest politician I've ever seen -- bar none. Gary Locke has cut out a *huge* amount of red tape in Washington's government over the years and has streamlined it in ways that previous governors only promised to do so. Gary Locke has consistently delivered on his campaign promises. Gary Locke pledged Kids First and Education First and meant it. He fought the Big Establishment and really made many progressive strides for education in the state of Washington. Maybe he's a moron to you because he refuses to kiss corporate butt.
For those of you who have never listened to Gary Locke give a speech, an interview, seen him at work doing exactly what he said he'd do, you'd be amazed that he's wasting such talent being a politician. The State of Washington is so dammed lucky to have him, especially compared to previous governors there -- including Democratic ones.
When Gary Locke decides to step down or the voters replace him, the state of Washington is going to take a real hit and THEN you'll see "morons" at work and voters will be wishing that he was back in charge.
posted on July 1, 2001 11:54:01 AM new"Wasn't Oregon almost considered a split state?'
Oregon is not a bellwether state any longer, but it still has the amazing ability to mimic the temperament of the rest of the nation. Since I've been here from 1980, more market analysts pay attention to what Oregonians want and think than I've seen or heard of anywhere else in the nation.
However, since Oregon uses the same mechanical voting system as they did in Florida and we had the same political parties here that they did there, I can't see why it was only the Florida Republicans who massively stuffed ballot boxes. Such blatant disregard for our Constitution and Democracy can hardly be thought to be contained simply in Jeb Bush country. This is why the Republican Majority in congress is not even making mention of replacing all voting methods and machines in every state in the union so that we can really eliminate voter fraud. They don't do it because voter fraud is how they get elected. At least on a national level.
Locally, they are Stealth Candidates. Since 1990, not a one of them has ever mentioned Republican, GOP, or The Republican Party anywhere in any literature or TV ad. The obvious reason is that if people attached party affiliation to them, they'd loose -- even with ballot-box stuffing going on.
posted on July 1, 2001 12:06:35 PM newBorillarIn the meantime, the democrats were interviewed on the local media, deploring the Republican's plans as "Gestapo Tactics" and labeling them as being onerous and Fascists.
I know that Borillar tries to be accurate and fair, but for some reason I'd suspect anyone being interviewed by the media would be hammered on a national level if they started labeling an opponent with "Gestapo Tactics" and "Fascist."
So the democrats boycott the legislature which means that the redistricting plan will be done by the secretary of state as per the news article:
If a plan doesn't become law by Saturday, under the state constitution, the task of redrawing legislative districts goes to Secretary of State Bill Bradbury, a Democrat.
I think we can all be grateful for the democratic process being applied in Oregon, because if the legislature had done the redistricting we'd have been subjected to a flood of endless posts about the satanic, fascist, tyrannical, republicans denying the will of the people. Then again some of those post are entertaining.
BTW, can anyone tell me why I roll my eyes when someone writes an editorial and includes words like Gestapo and fascist in it? For some reason buzz words like that make me feel like the author is out on the edge holding on with their fingernails and losing their grip on reality.
posted on July 1, 2001 12:57:27 PM newGary Locke is not a moron, but he is American Chinese on the Democratic ticket -- is that what you were referring to?
I am referring to Gary Locke, yes he may be
an Asian American but I am not referring to his race or you making an assumption that I called him a moron because of his race
That has nothing to with the person or the politician. Besides, if you didn't know already, he is not all Chinese, he is of mixed race, Chinese being just one of them.
Sure listen to him talk, he may talk well, make great speeches and promises. Glad your so much into Washington politics.
Education? yeah..... I know, you must have kids that go to school here right? My district, and its a large one, sucks big time, where is this Kids First thing.
Previous Governers: Dan Evans, who waaaaay back in the '70's went on and tried to get the VIADUCT fixed, as he has an engineering background, said it was a huge accident waiting to happen, such as in an earthquake.
Gee guess what, that earthquake we had, they found the damage, and now its being closed down, and 'retro fitted' and all that BS, now, after all these years, tying up all the traffic here.
Dixie Lee Ray, my favorite, and she was a Democrat. She was also a scientist, who wrote a book, on the bogus crys of the sky is falling due to the ozone layer.
I'm not sure what really has Gov Locke done that is so great?
Lessee the state workers went on strike, and he's sitting there, behind closed doors being a total assh*le to the people that work for him, as we know personally someone that does work for him, they do NOT like him, but that is as a person.
We still have huge traffic problems, which he promised to fix, but lesseee if I remember right you live in Portland, which you must be used to the heavy traffic, but then your great government there probably fixed all that?
posted on July 1, 2001 04:26:26 PM new"Borillar Just ONE question. Since your so [b]anti[b] Corporation, meaning privatly owned ones. What exactly would you want to see happen. Is what you want, and what you have been talking on and on about here, is for the U.S. Government to control private corporations? Simple yes or no. If its yes, you know what thats called? [email protected]"
Let's answer this one step at a time, shall we?
"Borillar Just ONE question. Since your so [b]anti[b] Corporation, meaning privatly owned ones."
That's your first wrong assumption. I have, on many occasions stated here on AW's Round Table exactly what I think ought to be done and exactly how I feel about privately owned corporations. To save you the time (and myself), I will be happy to once again state my position on this. I am all for privately owned corporations right up to, but not meeting the point at where they begin to hurt people or the environment that we have to live in. If a privately owned corporation needs better legislation in its favor AND it does not hurt anyone in any way. That means anti-consumerist legislation and products that are harmful to people or the environment, not anti-competition. You Republican voters put into our government politicians who don't care that people get hurt, used and abused by corporations; that corporations have ALL rights and consumers have little to none.
" . What exactly would you want to see happen."
I'd like to see our politicians realize that:
a) Voters put them in office, not Big Money. Big Money gets you noticed, but it can not vote -- only WE can!
b) That corporations get every single push and advantage possible to dominate this Earth, corporations right up to, but not meeting the point at where they begin to hurt people or the environment that we have to live in.
"Is what you want, and what you have been talking on and on about here, is for the U.S. Government to control private corporations? Simple yes or no."
Why is it that Republicans and Right-Wing Conservative Christians always expect simple answers and solutions to complex problems and situations? Is it a lack of foresight to see that it takes many solutions to conquer most of our problems? Can't they ever think outside of the box?
I want our government to protect American citizens; that is, us, you and me, consumers, visitors, and even illegals. I want our government to protect us from dangers both foreign and domestic. I want the government to protect us from the unmitigated abuses that corporations perpetrate upon us. Because corporations are not alive and we are, WE take precedence over corporations. Because corporations are not a living thing, but a bottom-line thing, then a corporation's best self-interests lie in making money and dominating market share.
There no longer seems to be a single shred of common decency with the corporations and have to have limits placed upon them to protect us from abuse and danger that they cause. If it takes having the government come into a corporation and say: "Sorry. Warning you didn't work, all sixty-five times that we did it. The petty fines that we levied upon you for ignoring us the sixty-five times have also gone ignored. You have hurt and killed Americans with your contempt and you will be tried for murder and your corporation is seized by the government and will be owned and operated by the government until we can sell it to someone who will listen to us."
I have no problem at all with that scenario. Someone big enough has to go in and make them responsible. All this talk about lawsuits hurting corporations is trash-talk; all it does is hurt their bottom-line by a percentage point or two. It takes hauling them, the owners and employees responsible for the decision-making in front of an international tribunal. If found guilty, all assets seized and given to the people who they hurt. Incarceration to protect us from any other evil that they have in mind. The ancient Romans did the same thing, only they executed the merchants.
" If its yes, you know what thats called?"
Do I know what making corporations behave in the public interest is called? Sure! It's called Justice. Do you have a problem with that?
posted on July 1, 2001 04:37:39 PM new"Dixie Lee Ray, my favorite, and she was a Democrat. She was also a scientist, who wrote a book, on the bogus crys of the sky is falling due to the ozone layer."
I always thought that Dixie was a joke. First, with a little dry weather, she declares a State of Emergency and calls for federal aid because water is getting a bit low -- not a drought, mind you. Then, just as it's about a done deal, it rains. And it rains as it does and got everything a bit too wet. So, clever Dixie who wrote that book on bogus cries, turned around declared another State of Emergency, this time because some small areas got flooded out for two days. I have no respect for her at all. But, maybe the prospect of a federal hand-out -- opps, I mean 'bail-out' -- opps, I mean "hand-up" or whatever appeals to you?
I used to live in the state of Washington in the late 70's -- that's why I know. While I am not familiar with the politics on the Viaduct, I do know that Seattle has grown in population so quickly that no fix is going to be had until the population stabilizes and predictions are that it won't be anytime soon. That complaint is just another example of people who expect simple solutions to complicated and complex problems and situations. It simply isn't reality, NearTheSea.
posted on July 1, 2001 05:50:07 PM newIs what you want, and what you have been talking on and on about here, is for the U.S. Government to control private corporations?
If its yes, you know what thats called?
Socialism, which seems to be alive and well in the defense industry.
posted on July 1, 2001 09:25:14 PM new
If you were here in the 70's then you must have known that the Gov was Dan Evans, the one that wanted and tried in the Legislature to fix the damned Viaduct, and was repeatly shut down, now look at it.... no I wasn't asking or expecting a quick fix, but its been known for what? 3 decades now, what is wrong with it, what could happen, now it did.
I'm very surprised you did not like the late Dixie Lee Ray, as she was pretty liberal. The only thing she wasn't liberal on was science, she wrote a book about the environment.
Justice, ok you call that justice, I don't see it that way, like other things you've posted, thats a pretty extreme scenario, no?
posted on July 1, 2001 10:27:29 PM new"Justice, ok you call that justice, I don't see it that way, like other things you've posted, thats a pretty extreme scenario, no?"
Really? I see how it is for you. If someone breaks into a home and kills someone -- that's murder and they need to get the Death Penalty ASAP! But if it is a corporation who is polluting and owners of the corporation know that what they are doing is slowly killing the local townsfolk from the toxic waste dump that they turned into a kid's playground, killing the kids -- that's OK, because it was making the corporations a few more bucks and the people shouldn't be held accountable like any other common criminal, eh? PAH-LEE-ZE!
posted on July 1, 2001 11:08:53 PM new"Sorry. Warning you didn't work, all sixty-five times that we did it. The petty fines that we levied upon you for ignoring us the sixty-five times have also gone ignored. You have hurt and killed Americans with your contempt and you will be tried for murder and your corporation is seized by the government and will be owned and operated by the government until we can sell it to someone who will listen to us."
Ok, for murder they should be tried, shouldn't anyone that commits murder deliberlatly be tried? yes.
But the main thing here is you would like to see the gov't own and operate those corporations, until what? until we can sell it to someone who will listen to us?
So what you are saying is, ok the gov't will hang on to this corporation, and operate it, until they find just the right people who will listen to them? Someone that will answer to the gov't on everything they do. Do not make a move unless the gov't says to? PAH-LEE-ZE! and whatever.
Take out any murders corporations are committing, and you would still be this anti
corporation activist
You want the gov't to make you safe and sound, take care of you, if something doesn't go your way at work, the gov't will take care of it, if you lose your job, and thats not fair, the gov't will take care of it, you need a house, the gov't will take care of it, if your neighbor makes more money then you, then thats not fair, cuz that neighbor may be part of some Corporation and by God the Gov't will take care of them.
