posted on June 12, 1999 03:36:00 AM new
I recently won a bid on an item(small diecast car) for $9.00 on eBay. The seller in his description stated that the shipping(did not mention handling, but is that a given?) would be $3.20. At the end of the auction, he asked me if I wanted to have the item shipped w/ insurance for an additional $1.00. I agreed, and sent him a m.o. for $13.20. When I received the item (which was fine), I noticed that he only spent $1.43 on shipping, and no indication on the package that insurance was added!!! I emailed him for an explanation, and the response I got was that he works for a company and his job is to list and ship items for them. He stated that the item was 'insured' through the company he works for since,(his words) the post office's insurance is a joke. As far as I know, the extra dollar went into his pocket. To top it off, the package he sent the item in was a USPS Priority Mail box(which he got free) which was turned inside out to the brown cardboard side! Is that legal? What kind of company does he work for? I haven't been around internet auctions for too long. Are there a lot of companies out there like this one that sells items on eBay and the like? Should I write to the seller and ask for proof in writing that insurance is handled by the company he works for? I'm not sure what I should do. I'm hoping for some constructive feedback. Thanks.
posted on June 12, 1999 05:58:00 AM new
Did the item arrive in good condition, if so, what is there to complain about. He stated his shipping, and when you bid you agreed to it. It would have been nice if the seller had listed that it was 3.20 s&h so that the buyer would not assume it was priority. Of course a buyer should e-mail before placing a bid to be sure. I have heard some folks self insure, in other words they insure the package and if it does arrive broke they pay you all costs, not the PO which can take months to do so. So you wanted feedback on this, I say you got the car you wanted, it arrived safely, move on and note to yourself to ask more questions the next time conditions are not spelled out crystal clear! Cheryl
posted on June 12, 1999 09:03:00 AM new
Thanks for your input Cheryl. I only mention this because 95% of the items I get through eBay, the money I send for postage goes for postage, and not handling. I more than paid a fair price for the item. Why does he need to make more money on the back end? What about the insurance? There's no evidence that he even had any. We're not talking a lot of dollars here. It's the principle of the matter. Thanks.
posted on June 12, 1999 02:21:00 PM new
calmarc I understand what you are saying. I fusedabout this alot in the beginning, used to even advertise in my posts I did not charge a handling fee. What happened is I under estimated postage, alot, only one buyer of many ever offered to send the under payment of postage. I did not EXPECT any one to though! But if you promise actual shipping and you over estimate, bang, you get yelled at for being a thief and trying to pocket the extra .50-1.00. I usually have packages wrapped and taped when I get to the PO and opening it up to toss in the excess change seems ridiculous. I do refund if I seriously over charge, only happened 2-3 times. I found that it was easier to simply ask for S&H, I sell mostly small stuff, postage can run from .55 to .99 and I simply charge 1.00 s&h. In the end it all evens out. My items are also small dollar items so eating the cost of envies, etc is not feasible or smart for me. Some items I know the exact postage and will charge exact postage cost, priority is only that, no fees as boxes are free, etc. The difference is that I will tell my buyer whether I ship first class or priority! Some do not, you must ask, if they state shipping at 3.20 and ship book rate, it may seem unfair, but it really is my place to question shipping charges before bidding!
Now the insurance is still another gray area. If it had arrived broken you would have insisted on a full refund and seller would have been obligated to refund since you did pay for insurance. Whether that comes directly from the sellers pocket or the PO, does it matter. Your proof would be your e-mail correspondence stating you were purchasing the additional insurance for 1.00. Now if it arrived broken and he/she refused to refund, YOU do have a valid complaint. Self insured just means just that. Have you ever tried to get a claim from the PO? I have, a horrible nightmare that took months! I could not expect my buyer to wait so long so I refunded immediately and took it up with the PO myself. Now those who self insure charge their fee and set it aside, sorta a savings account for those items that do get busted/lost in route and pay the refund that way. Now what I am saying here is not that you are wrong, I don't know you or the seller or all the circumstances, but is it really worth the headache to you to pursue this. If so, go for it. Turning priority boxes inside out is not illegal, although their purpose is for priority customers. I turn recycled priority boxes inside out myself, and in a pinch will use a new one, heck even the postal clerk did one for me once. And yes, even big companies do this, makes a person wonder about their integrity. Good Luck Cheryl
posted on June 13, 1999 05:53:00 AM new
Shipping charges VS. postage charges, after reading the comments on this issue, I can't see where the buyer was "wronged", as the seller didnt state that insurance was thru the U.S.P.S. and shipping charges can be different than postage charges, in that postage is strictly the amount paid at the p.o. to get that item from point A to Point B, and shipping can encompass bubble wrap, tape, labor, transportation costs to the p.o., etc. There is a bottom line here, in that the item arrived as purchased, and buyer had agreed to the charges, regardless of who provided insurance, and should there have been damage to the above, it waould have been much quicker and simpler to deal with a seller who self insures, rather than the long complicated procedure that the post office requires.
posted on June 13, 1999 06:32:00 AM new
Here's my 2 cents worth from a seller's perspective. If I treated my customers like calmark was on this deal, I should expect some bad feed backs. The shipping stated 3.20, and I think if you see that, then it's fair to assume it will be priority shipping, and the insurance issue, well, he paid an extra dollar for it, why shouldn't he expect it to be insured through the post office. The seller you bought the toy car from is probably OK, since you got the item and you were happy with it, but he hosed you on the shipping. I just don't agree with "well you agreed to the shipping charges, what have you got to complain about" line of thought. He paid for priority shipping and didn't get it! Many buyers wouldn't need too much of this kind of treatment before they decide to buy elsewhere.
posted on June 14, 1999 01:54:00 AM new
I may eventually just chalk it up as learning experience on my part. But in the 4 weeks that I've known about eBay, I've won quite a number of auctions (over 50), so my views on this subject is based on my previous transactions with other sellers. Maybe I should have asked more questions about the shipping, but isn't eBay based a lot on trust? As a buyer, shouldn't I expect a certain amount of service from the seller without having to pay extra for it? After all, he had a minimum on the item and I did pay a fair price for it. Isn't it in his best interest (ie: repeat business?). If I have to question every unclear statement, it may just harden me to the point that it won't be a pleasant experience to bid online. I hope that won't be the case, but this recent transaction just left a bad taste in my mouth. I like the little car, but I'm probably going to give it away so I won't have to look at it. Thanks for your feedback.
posted on June 14, 1999 05:39:00 AM new
calmarc You are absolutly right! The auction selling and buying experience is all about trust. I sell but do buy occasionally and I have experienced what you have. That's what I was trying to explain above, I simply have a "do not buy from" list. It would be nice if we could simply trust everything, but the world is just not like that. What I was trying to point out was it will just give ya an upset stomach if you do try to pursue this. I do realize it may be a point for you to not let go but sometimes it's best to let it go and remember for future need. I have found that I will simply skip over the auctions in which the terms are not clearly stated, if I really want it, I might e-mail seller and also point out to seller that clear shipping may help his bidding activity. You could post a neg or nuetral and the seller can turn around and say the shipping terms were stated clearly, even if said terms were short a few facts. You may want to contact said seller by e-mail and calmly explain your dissapointment, maybe seller will think about it, maybe not. Good luck with your future buys, I do hope you have all positive transactions! It's buyers like you that us sellers need and it does hurt when a buyer has a bad experience as we sellers do not want to lose even one customer!
posted on June 17, 1999 04:20:00 AM new
After reading all the replies listed in this segment, there seems to be a common word in many of the replies, that being "ASSUME". For whats its worth, folks, if buyers and sellers stick to the facts and DON'T ASSUME there would be a lot less problems. Signing off, Ross.
posted on June 19, 1999 04:05:00 PM new
As a seller I solved the shipping cost problem by buying a postage scale. Before I list anything I weight the item in the box with the packing, and look it up on the USPS rate chart. I list this amount in the auction description. To me actual charges mean actual charges.
If the parcel is over 5 lbs the rates are by zone. I put this in the description that postage will be deteremined by zone and if anyone wants to know the cost before bidding send me the zip code.
As a buyer I have been burned often. If an amount is not listed I ask. If it is too high I send a message and say thanks for the trouble, but I'll pass the shipping sounds a little high. I never assume if the description says actual charges that it will be the amount on the postage label.
2 of the worst were: an inexpensive item and the seller insisted on $10.00 shipping. It came with $1.50 in postage in an old wine box stuffed with newspaper.
The second was a $10.00 charge with a note for "careful shipping". It was a piece of pottery that came with $3.20 in postage rolling around in an empty priority box, not even a piece of newspaper. Why it wasn't in pieces I'll never know, lucky I guess.
But my biggest complaint was shipping quoted as $5.00 regular shipping or $9.00 for careful double boxing. I guess the $5.00 option wasn't careful packing.
I don't buy much anymore because of the postage and shipping charges. I see it as a real problem and a rip off.
posted on June 19, 1999 04:41:00 PM new
Thank's for the additional feedback. I'm still learning a lot about online auctions, and every info. helps. smw, I wish the seller that sold me the diecast car could read your words. I believe that the seller's that operate like the 'bad' examples that you gave, won't be as successful or even be in business too long. I think it's a great idea to tell those that overcharge or charge for handling that you will pass on their auction because of that. Maybe if enough people told them, they'll get the message. Thanks.
posted on June 28, 1999 08:19:00 AM new
I have gotten items where the postage cost far less than I paid, but I agreed to the fee, so what can I say. I get mad for 5 minutes and then get on with my life.
I also sell. My opinion. I charge exact shipping. If it is less than I quote, I send the difference back. I tend to overwrap and sometimes the box weighs more than I quoted - I eat that. One time a lady sent me the difference. That was a really nice gesture.
I consider the wrapping material, tape, and my time part of the deal and do not charge extra. I never said I was going to be a millionaire.
posted on June 29, 1999 11:13:00 AM new
I have strong feelings about shipping. I sell handcrafted jewelry. Everything is new. If there are any "goofs" i clearly state it in the description. I ship in bubble mailers, and include an info sheet with each purchase. This info sheet basically states that I stand behind my product and will repair with little or no fee, just shipping. I include postal insurance with each shipment. I charge $2.95 for shipping/handling/insurance. I do have a business (a resale license) which is why I charge handling. That very small handling fee covers processing necessary for my business. If I did not have a business, i know my costs would be higher, and so would the buyer's. (And all my jewelry sells for far below the retail value. )
Personally, i dislike high mail order company shipping fees. Another HUGE peeve is when sellers do not list the shipping fee. I always email for the fee info. I think it's sneaky to hid the shipping fee.
Think of it this way, the shipping is just part of the cost. If it's too much, don't buy it! And always ask first!
posted on July 8, 1999 06:26:00 AM new
IT's all about honesty. If I win something thru an auction, and when I get it I see I have been grossly overcharged for shipping, you bet I will email and ask why!! On the other hand, I have had buyers who wanted to have me pack multiple items they have won in one large box to save shipping. I ALWAYS refund excess postage in the form of a check.
posted on July 9, 1999 06:53:00 AM new
As a seller, I fret about what is proper in shipping charges. My present policy is to clearly state that there is a fixed charge for "postage and handling." My rationale is that I spend time in assuring the item is carefully packaged (Most customers who have left feedback have commented on the packaging), and that the customer is fully advised of the exact amount they are being asked to pay. Occasionally, the actual cost exceeds my charge, but that is my problem. I would welcome your thoughts on this process.
posted on July 9, 1999 10:30:00 AM new
calmarc I agree with what a lot of the others have stated here & have had the same issues. I've only been buying & selling on eBay for about 2 months & in shipping, I try to be as exact as possible, because I didn't want to overcharge anyone, but I have been overcharged on numerous occasions & been told that it was for their packaging, bubblewrap, trips to the Post Office, etc. I don't have a problem with paying the extra, but they shouldn't state that they are shipping at $3.20 priority & then ship it for $1.43 first class. I was also once told that their mother shipped the package, so they weren't aware. What a joke! But because of this, I also have developed a small list of people that I will not buy from just for this reason. If they want more for the item than the bid ended at, they should have either had a reserve on their item, or started their bid higher. I think sometimes some of the people are upset with where their bid ended & the only way for them to make an extra $1.00 or $2.00 is to ship first class, when they ship priority. I'm an honest person & I don't like paying the extra shipping, so I try to do the same for the people that buy from me. I actually just sent back $2.00 to a women in London because I had overcharged. I mean $2.00 is $2.00. I agree with the getting over it though, because there's really nothing you can do, and the thing about posting negative feedback, which I have done if needed, is that people then get angry & could end up giving you negative feedback (for whatever reason they may make up). It's a catch 22. Well good luck & maybe the best bet is just to make sure you read the auctions well, which is what I am now trying to do, and keep a list of people you won't buy from again. There are a lot of really nice, honest people out there, so give it a chance.
posted on July 9, 1999 12:35:00 PM new
I just mailed off a paperback book I sold on eBay. Now, when I was weighing it before posting the auction & figuring package cost, I must have done something wrong--I swear it all came out (package & postage) to $1.47, so I rounded off & charged $1.50 for shipping this item. When I got to the post office, the postage was only .55! Bubble envelope + extra bubble-wrap + tissue paper wrapping I always put on books only brought it up to a bit over .90 out of my pocket. Felt guilty, so mailed off difference in form of two postage stamps to the buyer & emailed her I had done so. Don't know what happened--I've never been off by that much before. Just goes to show that a seller can make an honest mistake in these things--either my scale is off, or the post office's is...or I was posting auctions in my sleep that day .
posted on July 9, 1999 02:48:00 PM new
Thanks for all the great feedback! I do believe that most people are honest, and that mistakes can be made. In my case, I still believe that he overcharged to make a few extra bucks. He and several others are on my "Don't buy from" list. I recently checked on the 'seller' in question, and I noticed that in some of his descriptions, he states now that he charges for shipping "and handling". Making it clear that he does charge for handling. I don't know if that is a direct result of me questioning him about it, I would like to think so. However, he's still on my list. Thanks again.
posted on July 14, 1999 09:28:00 PM new
I just read all the comments regarding shipping charges on auction items. No body is perfect and there is the old thing about "cutting off your nose to spite your face".
Not buying from a dealer who, in your estimation, has overcharged you for S/I is, in my opinion absurd. If I became upset every time I did not like the price of an item when it was scanned at my grocery store and I vowed never to shop there again, I probably would end up starving to death when I had exhausted my selection of every food store in town.
I have been in antique business for over 23 years and buy items from leading auction houses across the country. I have paid S/H/I based on every concievable cost scale known to man. You just simply don't get something for nothing these days. Shipping is one of the most maddening experiences a dealer can face when shipping hundreds of packages to places all over the world. We do our best to arrive at a FAIR price to both our customer and our company. I can assure you, we do not come out ahead of the game.
Just look at the flood of catalogs that come to your mailbox and check the S/H/I costs in each of them. Those that charge a small set fee have a FULL mark-up retail price which you could probably get cheaper at your local shopping centers. I especially cringe at the shipping prices scaled in increments based on total purchase ranges. I buy paperback model railroad books from one company that charges $5.50 for the first 60-70 page book and $2.00 for each additional book ordered. They come UPS ground and shipping on, say, 6 books is $15.50. Now I ask you, do you I buy the books? You bet. The plane ticket round trip to New York from Texas is around $850.00. Of course, I could just put them on my "Do not buy from this guy" list and not get the books when I want them. I don't think so.
posted on July 17, 1999 06:19:00 PM new
Just reading these and feel a need to reply. First of all I buy on ebay, and when bidding on an item I check the postage charges and if they are to high I either don't bid or email the seller to see if they will agree to a cheaper amt. Also I sell on ebay. Sometimes I state a specific amt and that it is S&H. Sometimes I state to low of a price and I eat the difference. Other times I state it is actual cost of shipping. Then I pack it and take it to the post office for the exact amt. In both of these instantances I am absorbing the cost of bubble wrap, styro peanuts, envelopes, packing tape, etc (yes I use generic boxes, I believe in recyling). Remember that the cost of mailing something is not just what the Post office charges. However I always pack my items carefully and I try to estimate my s/h charges fairly.
posted on August 4, 1999 06:22:00 PM new
About this shipping and "handling" issue---I buy and sell on ebay. When I buy and see what I consider to be outrageous shipping charges (such as 2.00 to send a postcard?), I pass on the item. One thing I have learned is that if it comes up once, it will come again. I wait for a more honest seller.
As a seller, I for one do not charge "handling". I use all recycled packing materials: boxes, peanuts, bubble wrap, newspaper. Why charge for that? Also, we sellers usually buy or acquire these items at a low low garage or auction sale price. We're lucky enough to sell at a big price and net 500% or more profit. You know that a seller is totally ripping you off if they can't spring for the cost of an envelope! It's downright cheating!
Calmarc, use the feedback system to vent. Give the honest sellers glowing reports, and give the cheaters what they are due--and tell it exactly like it is!
posted on August 8, 1999 07:34:00 PM new
Handling charges mean just that -- charges you incur for the care and preparation for mailing. Many of my packages require a sizeable amount of bubble wrap which can get costly, so my handling charge on those items will be a few cents more than a regular package. I don't believe in gouging buyers as some sellers do. I was interested in buying a scale recently on eBay and the scale started at $1.00 and had a missing part, but the S&H was $10.00. The final bid was for $2.00, so buyer will end up paying $12.00. The scale could easily be mailed for $3.20, if that, but once again, this seller was out to make some extra pocket money. There are a lot of sellers who only charge the buyer for exactly what the package costs to ship, but many charge an extra handling charge which I feel is appropriate, if not extreme. I have heard sellers say that it's the gas that's used to go to the post office, the paper shredder that's needed to shred paper for packing, the scales, the bubble wrap, bubble envelopes, yadda, yadda, yadda. Well, I don't feel a buyer should have to incur the sellers costs to buy supplies, but I do feel a modest handling fee is ok. From my own observation, I still feel that mail order catalogs really take advantage of the buyer by charging astronomical S&H charges, far surpassing ebay sellers. One eBay seller was going to charge me a ridiculous S&H rate on an item I was high bidder on until I told him I wouldn't pay it at that rate, so he unpacked the item and took out around 5 pounds of packaging material (hehe!) and the price dropped around $9.00. You have to be one step ahead of a lot of these people. Many are definitely out to take advantage of the unaware buyer.
posted on August 13, 1999 10:28:00 AM new
Hi,I'm fairly new to this, having won about 17 auctions. As I live in Ireland I always ask for an airmail postage rate. I've had 3-4 magazines and the rest CD's posted to me. I've noticed that the rate for magazines seems to be $9 approx. That's fine. However, when they arrive there's never a $9 stamp on them, the amount is always $3-$4 lower. For Cd's it's usually $1+ lower. I don't like being taken for a ride. I complained recently about a mag. overcharge & the seller apologised and said he's made a mistake & would look into it for me. Should I complain about all overcharging? When I sell I quote a flat airmail rate of $4 for CD's. The cost of the bubble envelope is borne by me. I expect the same service from my sellers. What to do?
posted on August 14, 1999 03:41:00 AM new
Hi!! I have read some of your replies and I do tend to agree with everyone about the over inflating the shipping is plainly not fair.But I also see the seller's point of view because I am one. If I over charge I always offer to return the money. But no one here has even mentioned the time it takes to wrap the package, the tape, the ink and the GAS to drive to the post office and ship. I do not take that in consideration when I ship and quote shipping charges, and I will return any amount over but, maybe it will be a good idea to think about this if the over payment is a mere $1.00 or less. Just a thought :-)
posted on August 14, 1999 12:32:00 PM new
An easy solution to the s/h problem is to charge a flat fee for US delivery, some lose a fee cents, some save a little. For complaints,(few) explain the fact that the shipping fee keeps the price uniform for all. Sears in LA charges the same for merchandise as the Sears in NY.Why penalize a customer because he or she doesn't live close to You?? same for all, all the same.JZ
posted on August 16, 1999 01:33:54 PM new
Some of you have no clue as to what may be invovled in shipping. It always irks me when someone complains about the S&H costs. Excessive costs are easy to spot, however, some even complain about the most minimal of costs. It is almost like they believe that the item crawls into the packing by itself and drags it butt to the Post Office on its own. For a single postcard, we do charge $3.00. Multiple postcard for approx. the same amount. Why $3.00 you may ask. A person has get, pack and mail the item. He is a paid employee. Another has to process and record the sale. He also is a paid employee. To complain about our charges is to call these people worthless. If you do not want to pay shipping charges, drive youself to the store and pick it up. Then figure out how much you paid to save a buck.
posted on August 16, 1999 03:59:10 PM new
I alway charge SHIPPING & HANDLING and clearly state that amount. Of course, I try to be fair. If I am using a USPS Priority Mail Box, I only bump up the price slightly if I have to mess around with bubble wrap, packing paper, tape, or who knows what else.
I think the key is clearly stating what the charges are. I don't mind paying a few cents or a buck extra on shipping as long as its clearly stated before I bid.
If I buy from a seller that says its so much for shipping & handling, then I don't care if he has Santa bring it (if its timely) or how much it cost him/her. If a seller says "actual shipping, then thats exactly what it should be - no more..
posted on August 20, 1999 08:25:10 AM new
Use of reversed postal boxes is strictly against USPS policy and they will charge retail anyone found using them inappropriately - just notify your postmaster and the postmaster where the item was shipped.
Self-insurance is a good thing not a bad thing. I pad my shipping cost enough to offset reships due to never arrival or damaged arrival and in effect am self-insuring. If someone charges you $1.00 for insurance and the items doesn't arrive (or arrives broken) you SHOULD be able to notify the seller and they SHOULD reship the item at their expense.
Keep in mind shipping and postage are 2 different things.
My shipping costs include:
Postage
Packaging
Packaging labor
Labels
PC time to process and print these things
Cost of gas and time to goto the post office and stand in line an hour.
Etc, Etc, Etc
For me, generally shipping is 3x the postage cost using USPS First Class mail.
posted on August 21, 1999 07:46:19 PM new
If I want it....I gotta pay to get it here. Thats the bottom line. Sufice to say we bought for the good deal or for want either way shipping and HANDLING is just that. I sell, I ship, ethier I include the bubble wrap in the sale price or the shipping. But, I never, never, never charge over .50 over the actual cost. I want the repeat business, happy customers, I'll do what I gotta do to keep them happy
posted on August 29, 1999 02:58:34 AM new
All Fortune 500 companies charge for Shipping & Handling. Heck, even Columbia House charges $3.00 to ship the 1st CD and $1.50 for each additional CD. (this is how it was 3 years ago anyway), and they ship 4th class! They are robbing us on shipping, but it only makes a difference when it's just a single person on E-bay, right? IF SHIPPING IS CLEARLY STATED IN THEIR AD, YOU HAVE NO REASON TO DISPUTE IT. All businesses have handling costs. It is up to each individual or business to decide what his time and material are worth and whether or not he wants to foot the bill for none, all, or part of it. THIS IS JUST A BUSINESS DECISION. You don't have to be a graduate of Harvard Business College to figure it out. You just have to take this into consideration when you place your bid. The free marketplace will eliminate anyone who overcharges.
I do agree that if they say $3.20 for shipping, they should send it Priority. This implies Priority. People ask me that all the time, "Is that shipping charge for Priority?" I tell them it is. Maybe I should start putting it in my ad, since some sellers are shipping it 1st for $1.43...
I have never "overcharged" for shipping. But I have never "ripped myself off" for my materials or time. It just made good business sense to me, as it does for many businesses. (With CEO's who graduated from Harvard)
.