posted on June 16, 2001 01:28:03 PM new
Guess what. I checked my online bank statement and saw that $109 has been deducted from my Bank Account! Guess what the transaction was called! "PAYPAL ;DES=REVERSAL ;ID=xxxxxxxx." I lost $31 ealier in the week from an item purchased from me with a stolen credit card through paypal, but this is not it. This reversal is for a DVD player that I sold on June 9. ONLY... I HAVE NOT RECEIVED A SINGLE EMAIL FROM PAYPAL ABOUT THIS TRANSACTION!
I called PayPal and they said it shows that I received the payment and deposited it into my bank account, but their records do not indicate anything of a reversal. Then I called Bank of America, and they said it CLEARLY shows that they did debit the money directly from my bank account, which they are NOT supposed to do! I called PayPal again, and they suggested that the bank is just wrong... but I am still out of $109 (plus the $31 from the fraud account). None of it shows up on my PayPal account when I log on. I'm so frustrated~ twice in ONE WEEK shouldn't happen! AARRRGHHH!
I am EAGER to join anyone in a lawsuit vs. PayPal.
posted on June 16, 2001 08:07:37 PM new
Are you aware that you can go to your bank and fill out a form that will prevent the funds from being taken? I have some info on my site (I am not allowed to post the direct URL here, so visit my site and look at the payment service links). Speak to your bank immediately and insist that they block this access.
posted on June 17, 2001 12:12:17 AM new
Thanks, that info has certainly changed my mind about PayPal. Has this happened to anyone else, and if so, was it ever resolved?
posted on June 17, 2001 05:43:39 AM new
>>ONLY... I HAVE NOT RECEIVED A SINGLE EMAIL FROM PAYPAL ABOUT THIS TRANSACTION! <<
A question: Are you talking just about the reversal or does that mean you didn't receive an email when it was paid either? That would mean that you never actually lost money because you never shipped any merchandise, correct? Not that this excuses Paypal or alleviates your frustration, but at least it wasn't a loss.
posted on June 17, 2001 09:46:40 AM new
astrophel2, your kind of case is the kind which does get sorted out, even if not instantaneously. Good records are kept, and it eventually becomes very clear who was mistaken or who misunderstood.
[ edited by roofguy on Jun 17, 2001 09:47 AM ]
posted on June 17, 2001 12:06:07 PM new
No, I recieved the payment for the transaction on Saturday June 9 and yes, I received an email stating that I got the payment). The money was transfered into my bank account on June 11, the money was reversed BY PAYPAL from my bank account on June 15. I called my bank to ask about the reversal, and the representative said it was clear and without doubt that PayPal deposited the money on June 11, and reversed it on June 15. In my previous post, I meant to say that I have not received any email regarding the reversal from PayPal.
The bank representative further told me that PayPal did not have the authority to debit money directly from my bank account. Is this correct?
When I noticed it, I immeadiately assumed I was the victim of fraud (AGAIN). But the first time I was defrauded, the perp paid me $31, but I only had to pay back a slighty less amount, the $31 minus the paypal fees. For this second transaction, I was paid $109- because I had extra money in my paypal account, I transfered exactly $109 to my bank account. Exactly $109 was reversed. If the reversal was because of fraud, it would have been slighty less than that.. around $106. So I know the reversal is NOT related to fraud. Besides which, i should be insured because I shipped to the confirmed address and have proof of shipping.
Either way, I would like a PayPal cheerleader to explain to me WHY PayPal debited from my bank account when they are not supposed to.
As for the "good records," when I called paypal, they said that their records indicated nothing of a reversal. They also suggested that my bank probably rejected the payment (which was not the case, bank said PAYPAL DEBITED).When I called them a second time, PayPal told me that I should balance my checkbook because it looked like I made some purchases after that. Yes, a purchase for a Castaway Wilson Antenna Topper- $9.95. They don't seem to understand that I am looking at my statement and I see "PAYPAL ;DES=REVERSAL ;ID=xxxxxxxx -$109"
[ edited by astrophel2 on Jun 17, 2001 12:22 PM ]
posted on June 17, 2001 07:35:14 PM new
contact paypal damon on the ebay board he will help you get to the botton of the problem.......................
every 20 seconds in america a woman is giving birth:SHE MUST BE FOUND AND STOPPED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.................................................................
posted on June 18, 2001 12:02:49 PM new
Hi astrophel2,
I did post on another forum for this issue, but I do need the email address to make sure that you did not utilize a payment option,etc.
I will be more than happy to forward the information to our financial operations department to assist, but we do not access user bank accounts without their permission (as covered in our TOU).
posted on June 20, 2001 07:24:01 AM new
PAYPALDAMON sez - <SNIP> but we do not access user bank accounts without their permission (as covered in our TOU).
That is pure BS. Paypal accessed my account (savings rather than checking) 5 times *without* my permission. They got 5 NSFs as I don't keep money in that account. I still have not (I suspect will never) get the $125 back they cost me.
IS ANYONE STARTING THE LAWSUIT YET? Or is all that talk, just talk like Paypal?
posted on June 20, 2001 06:58:10 PM new
Hi fishbone,
Did you use the instant ach option for payment? This is the one area where users mistakenly choose the wrong option that will initiate a bank withdrawal and place a hold on the card on file ( I can explain this feature in more detail).
If you have an issue claiming unauthorized account access, I would like to review your account records to see what shows in your account activity log and forward to financial operations if needed.
We do not, per our terms of use, access user bank accounts without their permission. Permission requires the user logging in and requesting said transaction.
posted on June 20, 2001 08:57:11 PM new
"We do not, per our terms of use, access user bank accounts without their permission. Permission requires the user logging in and requesting said transaction."
Per terms of use, maybe not. Per "clerical error," YES!
The $109 was returned to my PayPal account after speaking with Paypaldamon. The reason it was reversed from my bank account without my permission: "clerical error." If I hadn't noticed it, it would have been $109 in PayPal's pocket. Everyone check your statements CLOSELY, the reversal was not indicated at all on my PayPal history log. It appeared on my statement as "PayPal REVERSAL." If it weren't for Paypaldamon, I don't think PayPal would have even assisted me in resolving the matter.
[ edited by astrophel2 on Jun 20, 2001 09:11 PM ]
posted on June 21, 2001 06:38:21 AM new
astrophel2: How do we know you're telling the truth? What you have to do is put in your web site "I will never say anything about Paypal that isn't true." Then if anyone questions you, just answer: "As per my TOU, I will never say anything about Paypal that isn't true." That should be good enough proof even for the PP cheerleaders.
posted on June 21, 2001 10:09:24 AM new
"Did you use the instant ach option for payment? This is the one area where users mistakenly choose the wrong option that will initiate a bank withdrawal and place a hold on the card on file ( I can explain this feature in more detail)."
Why is it seem that it alway the "users" who made the mistakes and NEVER PP? I used PP for around 50 or 60 transactions. They ALWAYS were taken out of my checking account just as I had set it up from the beginning. Then out of the blue, PP tried 5 times to take it out of my savings resulting in the NSF fees that PP refuses to take responsibility for.
"If you have an issue claiming unauthorized account access, I would like to review your account records to see what shows in your account activity log and forward to financial operations if needed."
If you can get my hard earned money back, I would certainly be appreciative. However, based on my experiences with PP (via phone and email) I will not hold my breath.
Go back through all my transactions and see where they were drawn from. You will see that without exception, each came from my checking account (#####-07) until the final transaction was (attempted) from savings (#####-09).
"We do not, per our terms of use, access user bank accounts without their permission. Permission requires the user logging in and requesting said transaction"
This may be somewhat true, but you did attempt to access my savings and NOT my checking as my (former) account will show was to be the case.
posted on June 21, 2001 10:49:23 AM new
Am I telling the truth? See my post in the PayPal section called, "PayPaldamon, you have some 'splaining to do." He THANKS me for coming back to the message board to announce that the issue was resolved.
I SWEAR that Paypal reversed $109 from my bank account and then put it back into my PayPal account after I talked to PayPaldamon. Astrophel2 TOU: I will never lie. =)
posted on June 21, 2001 11:10:02 AM new
Hi fishbone,
I have verification that PayPal advised you where the issue was and what steps need to be done.
The issue was with your credit union and you were advised to contact them directly to resolve the matter (our representative provided you with a contact name and phone number for your credit union).
Here is part of the response you received back from us:
I have contacted your credit union and spoke with xxxxx, a credit union representative, regarding this situation. When you added your bank account to the PayPal system you entered a bank routing number and your account number. At your credit union they state that your checking and savings account have the same account number. The reason for your funds to come from one source before and another source now would need to be discussed with your credit union directly. What I can confirm is that PayPal has on each and every occasion sent the request on your behalf to the same routing and account number. I have released the restriction on your account concerning the unauthorized transaction report we received from your bank concerning these transactions.
posted on June 21, 2001 11:42:34 AM new
Fishbone, it sound to me like you may have found the stupidest bank in the world if they have your checking account and your savings account under the exact same account number.
posted on June 25, 2001 08:05:45 AM new
>>Powerhouse
>>Fishbone, it sound to me like you may have found the stupidest bank in the world if they have your checking account and your savings account under the exact same account number.
I have been banking there for 20 years without any problems. They have gone out of their way for me many times. I have nothing bad to say about them.
Contrary to what PalPaldamon says or thinks, my savings and checking have two different numbers (they end in an account qualifier). One is #####-07 (Checking) and the other is #####-09 (savings). What is so hard about that?
Why is it that the first 50 or so transactions came from my checking (-07) just as I set it up to be, and then all of the sudden they tried 5 times (not once or twice, but 5 times) to get it from my savings (-09)? Humm Mr. Damon?
>>>I have released the restriction on your account concerning the unauthorized transaction report we received from your bank concerning these transactions.
Now this is funny!! If PayPal can't even figure out that I have closed my account there many weeks ago, what would make me think they could read a simple account number???
posted on June 25, 2001 08:41:48 AM new
fishbone, I don't have any inside information regarding your case at all.
That said, I'll point out that your analysis is implausible. Apparently you believe that PayPal substituted your savings account information (which you did not authorize) for your checking account information.
Now, since you've posted it here, we know how to convert your checking account number into a savings account number. Do you really believe that PayPal figured that out on their own, and started using your savings account? Why would they do that? Why would they keep doing it after getting the bounce? It's simply implausible.
Far more plausible is that YOUR BANK, looking at the same numbers from PayPal, changed which account they accessed. That leaves completely open which account they should have accessed on day one, or which account they should have been accessing when the bounces occurred.
That wouldn't make your bank a bad bank. It would make them guilty of a, um, dreaded "clerical error".
posted on June 25, 2001 03:25:29 PM new
Two of the banks that I use have the same account for # for checking and savings. For one of them, You need to add 01 to the end for checking and 09 for savings. If someone tries to debit and leaves off the 2 digit suffix they take money from whatever account they feel like.
posted on June 25, 2001 05:38:59 PM new
It is not at all uncommon for banks and credit unions to have all the client's accounts start with an account number then append a unique number for checking, savings, loans or any others.
My credit union does. I checked my paypal account to see what I put when I registered by checking account and it is only the account number --- no unique number appended --- to let my CU know to debit my checking verses by two savings accounts.
Its my opinion that the determination is made when the request is sent to the bank/CU. I've had several transactions between paypal and my CU and each came out of my checking account as I desired. Each event is listed as "Internet Purchase Check - PAYPAL" so it was probably easy for my CU to determine.
Fishbone, was there something different about that last transaction that was sent to your savings account? It is quite possible your CU messed up and is not fessing up. It is also very possible that Paypal started the screwup by how they requested the transfer.
There is *no* chance that my CU made the mistake. The same person has worked there for many years and we are personal friends. They are smart enough to know that all of my auto withdrawls are made (and always have been) from my checking account..
The fact still remains, PayPal tried 5 times to get the money from my savings and *not* checking as the previous 50 or so transactions (with PP).
roofguy, I am quickly becomming tired of your comments. You must be affiliated with PP. your opinion means nothing to me.
posted on July 13, 2001 05:33:42 PM new
PayPal is worthless.
I know.
I have been paying their high fees, but when it came to recovering money from one of their verified members who defrauded me, guess what? right! no help at all.
Worthless! Worthless!! Worthless!!!
If you are looking for security in your transactions, PayPal is not the place to be.
posted on July 13, 2001 09:21:22 PM new
danscomics, by your story, you came to believe that Paypay would give you money even if PayPal couldn't collect that money from the seller.
posted on August 4, 2001 06:50:19 PM new
I used paypal for the first time a few weeks ago while selling something on ebay. Needless to say, the transaction was anything but smooth. I sold my item, saw that the money was transferred by my buyer to my paypal acct., so I sent my item off. When I tried to collect the money from my paypal acct., paypal had blocked my account. I emailed them back and forth a dozen or so times...each email was vague and totally Not helpful. One email told me I needed to send in a copy of my drivers license and my most recent phone bill! It was clear that I wasn't getting anywhere with paypal, so I went to the Better Business Bureau site and filed a complaint. It was really easy, they have an online form. They also forward your complaint to the company you're complaining about, so paypal got a nice lengthy complaint from me via the Better Business Bureau. Within 24 hours PayPal lifted the restriction on my account, and sent me an email saying that although they were in the right, they were lifting my restriction for my convenience. So my advice to everyone out there is to file a complaint with the Better Business Bureau online....it certainly worked for me! Good luck!
posted on August 4, 2001 07:29:29 PM new
Tom Martino, 11AM(EDT) M-F WABC 770-AM Radio NYC, NY: The Consumer Guru: "I want my Freakin' Money back!" (Quote, on Air) Sez Re: Authorized "Auto-Debit" "Auto-Withdrawals": "If you Close or empty one Bank Account, your Bank will let these "Guys" Drain your OTHER Accounts at that Bank!" He sez: "You will need to FIRE that BANK and go to Another NEW Bank (Not a Branch) and set up New Bank Accounts." Call him: (On Air) I was a Bank Examiner for one of the USA's/World's Largest Banks. Tom Martino is RIGHT. He also Sez: No Credit Card Use on the Internet; No Debit Bank Plans PERIOD! No "Auto-Withdrawals" You have/are Compromising your Personal Financial Control and your Identity. Write 'em a Check. Better still, a Bank Cashier's Check; your Checking Account # is YOURS, keep it safe. Internet Fraud is Rampant and Snowballing. -PJ38-
