It didn't take very long before the smart guys in marketing at Honda, GM, Ford, Toyota to decide that they wanted to play in that field too. So they went to their engineers and said, "Build us something to compete with Mr. Iacocca's money maker. Only, we need to be different so we have something to sell. So, don't make it the same as they did. Just make us a van the same size."

These engineers were smart too. They knew where who wrote their checks. So we saw the Ford and Chevy vans built on pickup chassis with RWD. Crude but being Fords and Chevies they could sell some. Mazda made the MPV. A very high-quality piece. But RWD and not as
space efficient, just like Ford and Chevy. Toyota & Mitsubishi had some small vans on the shelf and they imported some. Toyota continued to work and they made a Previa. Cool looking! Mid-engine, too.

Why did none of these guys copy the Chrysler paradigm? Roomy van on based on a FWD sedan.
Not Invented Here, syndrome? But it didn't
last.

First GM then Nissan&Ford and then the others decided that what they were doing was never going to make much of a dent in the market dominated by Chrysler. What to do? What to do? Funny thing everyone else already had the hardware to do the job. Honda & Toyota especially had wonderful sedans to start with. Ford & GM had adequate stuff too.

If you take a look at the current issue of Car&Driver there's a comparison test of new minivans. Ya know what? They are all stateoftheart copies of that 15yearold design. I've always knew that Honda could build a better one but it took them 15 years to realize it.

Now, you may be wondering, what's his point? Well, I'm pretty sure that I had one when I started. Hmmmm... Oh, yeah. All the auctions I've been looking at are trying to be different just to be different from eBay. That's what it looks like to me.

Want to compete with them? Want me to try your site? Well, I don't want to learn a new way of doing stuff for every one. (How would you like to buy a van with the brake on the right?) I want more eBays. Better ebays but they don't have to be all that much better.

Thanks for dropping by.

I think I get your point but find your criticism a bit of a problem.

For instance, I personally have no trouble moving between sites.

Say for listing, I know that both sites have a listing button the front page that leads to a listing page. One may be on the left and the other on the right but, in the context of a car shifter, the distance between the two in terms of mouse placement, is less than an inch movement. (I can go diagonally across my screen with a 1.5" mouse move.)

On that listing page there is a space for the auction title. Both name that field "title."

Following that is a description field that accepts HTML. One can create the HTML code for an auction and paste it into this field. There is no difference in the HTML code between the two auctions. You can literally go to eBay and view source and copy the description and then go to AU and paste it in the description field.

Now we do have that pesky little field that asks you specifically for the price of shipping and also another for payment types accepted. Are these not improvements?

As far as the auction types, there is a field for quantity that, if you enter more than one, results in the auction be a Dutch auction. Ditto the field for the reserve auction. Heck, we don't even charge greater listing fees for the reserve auction. Every listing is but a quarter:-)

Of course I don't think you want us to emulate eBay in terms of the percentage fee (based on the final auction price) from our flat 2.5 percent... or maybe you do want us to charge double that for the first $25.00.

But I will admit... our front page looks different that eBays. That does mean that the first time you go there, you might have to read it. Of course, just like eBay, the "site map" is your best friend.

And search is different but really not that much different than the search that eBay had six or seven months ago. (and in some ways much better than they had then.)

Catagories are different too but heck, when we started, eBay didn't have but 360. BTW: If you use the auctions ending today button on our front page, you can deal with only 19 major categories -- far fewer than the original "auctionweb."

But you wanted to talk about cars. Personally I'm not much of a fan of the Chrysler mini-vans. I mean I liked the highline seats better in the Ford Areostar. As far as the brake was concerned, it was in the same place on both vehilces and the transmission still meant it forward when you put it in "D."

In fact, I might suggest that a better example, might be the Corvair, which was also immensely popular its first three or so years. Indeed, both it the VW were the wonderkars of the early 1960's despite obvious safety flaws associate with the rear-engine design that ultimately killed the brand (and not an insignificant number of their proponents.)

Yet the much better designed Dodge Dart/Plymouth Valiant were largely overlooked despite greater safety and reliability.

Even today, I'm sure that VW supporters (unless they live in the south where the VW was notorious for heat-induced engine warp) tout the superiority of the rear-mounted air-cooled engine.

Finally, remember when Apple sued Microsoft for infringement over Windows similarity to the Mac operating system. You may not remember that that suit was never decided in court ... it was settled when Apple got in such a financial predicament that Bill Gates was able to arrange for it being dropped in return for MS investing in Apple.

I guess my point is that, technically behind the scenes, we've got the front-wheel drive van. You may not like our styling or where we put the lever to adjust the seat, but technically, we probably have, to use your anaology, a more sophisticated design with more horsepower.

I base that assertion on us having hard-wired transactional feedback, automated charging of bidsafe sales to bidder credit cards, ability to list an auction in two different categories, the "accoutrement" of real insurance and escrow services bundled into the bidsafe sale, long-term auction histories online .... etc.

And you haven't seen anything ... yet:-)

Again, Mick, thanks for stopping by.

neomax

I find your analogy quite appropriate.

Pat,

I find it difficult to navigate AU, particularly with Search. AU and all the other auction sites need to realize that eBay has set the defacto standard for online auction sites.

To compete with eBay every other auction site must either:

Specialize on a niche market where it can draw all of the sellers and buyers.

Or:

Provide essentially the same look and feel of eBay in terms of [b]navigating[b] the site and find ways to increase the volume of sellers, listings and bidders.

Folks don't want something different. What they want is an "eBay" that works.

AU and other auction sites are missing their opportunity to improve their market share with every day that eBay is down and sellers and buyers cast about for other places only to find themselves on unfamiliar and difficult ground. The aggravation simply isn't worth it. They go off and do things that they otherwise put off and await eBay's return to service.
 

I understand your concerns about search. I've found another way to persue the needed change and I am presently persuing it.

Still, you must have been writing before your first cup of coffee when you wrote ...

quote:

---

AU and all the other auction sites need to realize that eBay has set the defacto standard for online auction sites.

---

I disagree on a couple of levels.

First, eBay may have 1.5 million (real) members but the Net has well over 500 million users worldwide. That they have dominance at this point is impossible to refute but to assume there is a standard because .4 percent of the Internet users worldwide use it is like saying that Linux Redhat -- which I understand now is installed on about 5 million computers, is the standard-setter among operating systems.

Recognize that you and the others here are very much in the vangard of online auctions.
Yes, you are true pioneers who learned the "ebaysian" way of doing things and you're comfortable with it.

I have no doubt that "you" want a competing auction that addresses your 100 percent comfort level with eBay. Our 95 percent comparability frustrates you with nit-picking differences (like not being able to search only titles in search.)

Heck, Fred, we've met. I know you're a bright fellow and easily capable of handling the differences in the sites.

AU is no more different from eBay than using Lotus 123 Quattro Pro and Excel. And, if you're like me, you use them interchangably because, Quattro Pro does better charts:-), most stuff comes in on Excel and 123 ... well it set the standard for spreadsheets on the PC 15 years ago. (I could still use Visacalc.)

The point is that the knowledge you have on eBay is useful to the same degree or more than your knowledge of how computer spreadsheets work. Sure, there are differences, but the similarities are overwhelming.

Now to the real point. I honestly don't think you want eBay setting the standard.

But maybe you do? So, let presume they do set the standard.

To meet that standard:

Should we eliminate our service department so that email wouldn't get answered.

Then we should also increase our prices so there wouldn't be a pleasant surprise when listing and commission fees are totalled.

We should let eBay WOMD us for violation of their "intellectual property rights" for calling our robo bid system a "proxy bid."

Speaking of intellectual property, I suppose you want us to approach and interpret the DMCA in the same way as eBay. Afterall standardization is of primary importance.

Let see, we also need to add porn, eliminate guns, add and then revise our support board, ignore customer complaints, blame our users for "attacking" our mail servers, eliminate true hardwired transactional feedback, eliminate bidsafe and its consumer protection (user verification, all risk insurance and escrow services) and value elements (shipping insurance).

Certainly any innovation would be unwelcome because, as you state, "Folks don't want something different. What they want is an "eBay" that works."

Hell, playing follow the leader may be a fun game in kindergarten, but it is not ultimately a winning strategy.

That's like telling Chrysler, at that point almost bankrupt, that they needed to copy GM and Ford in 1982 instead of building the first Mini Van. Heck, it might fail and certainly as the number three or four automaker, they should "follow the leaders."

It is tough to compete in this market and it is getting tougher. But to do as you suggest is tantamount to closing the doors and giving up. Indeed, had Crysler "followed the leader" because everyone it seemed wanted a Oldsmobile Cutlass, built yet another "clone" would have probably resulted in their ultimate failure.

Yes, John Paul Jones, the admiral of the Revolutionary Navy, had it right when he said, "I've just begun to fight...
... or was it "damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead ..."

I know for sure, my reaction to your post that we give up and march in lockstep is closer to the US commander in Bastogne ...
Nuts.

Yep, marching in lockstep was the bottomline question in that war, wasn't it.

neomax:-)

Thanks for the compliment.

What we try to do is "improve" on the good things and eliminate the bad things and add even better things.

One thing I know is that our system is more capable than eBay's overall. The Bidsafe program is an example as we have built with this program, the ability to do instant transactions (take the credit card, bill the credit card and send the order to ship). You'll be seeing this new tool be used more and more in the coming months as we expand the utility of the bidsafe product.

The other overriding reality of life is that you're never going to please everyone.

Still, thanks for the compliment:-) If you have a question about AU, don't hesistate to post me either publicaly here or privately.

neomax
 

No, I don't want AU or anyone else to copy eBay's faults!

Right now, I specifically want AU to improve search and I want AU to increase its volume of auctions dramatically so that more people start listing on AU.
 

Sorry for missing your post. And I don't mean to be argumentative.

This industry is so eBay-centric that all eBay users want is a eBay that works.

I actually appreciate criticism that serves a purpose.

Your criticism -- that we don't allow a title only search -- is an actionable item. The concerns that we are hard to navigate have also been addressed, we feel appropriately.

But to say that we need to be like Honda and build front drive mini-vans tells me nothing.

AU is making progress and will continue to make progress.

neomax

[This message has been edited by neomax (edited February 24, 1999).]