I was asked to "sell" a poster on the eBay side on why Bid$afe is the greatest thing.

I had a lengthy post here that cited some hypothetical examples of the how Bid$afe could benefit sellers -- greatly. I think it is right on target for the market and, considering several aspects of the coverage, is absolutely compelling. It will make sellers money IMO.

However, on reflection, I pulled this post to have it read and approved by the folks at AU's HQ.

I probably should have done that before posting. but what can I say, I'm excited about Bid$afe and believe that it the best path for the online auction and collectibles community.

Just on the face of it, having it is like having a feedback file of 1000 in terms of credibility -- particularly when the buyer is also a member of bid$afe.

The cost of Bid$afe is low meaning it is not a barrier to entry into business -- $19.95 The credibility it provides is akin to buying from Sears with its famous money back guarantee.

I pulled the post simply because talking about insurance as an assumed "company insider" presumes that I know precisely what I'm talking about.

Even though I think I do:-), when you start getting into this realm -- especially with a new product from a big company like Times-Mirror and the ultimate insurance underwriter (The Hartford Insurance Group)-- I don't want to assume anything.

For instance I know there are exclusions for fraud including conversion and other forms of theft. How to interpret those to the examples cited is beyond me. I don't know.

In the original post, a couple of my examples dealt with scenarios such as a buyer returning a fake instead of the actual item or possibly vandalizing the item. Again, the assumption is if you are an innocent injured party, you're covered. Still, I want someone at HQ to look over what I'd written. They may also be concerned I'd give some scammer an idea:-)

Anyway, I can say that without question that I bought Bid$afe for my wife's auctions and the policy reads that it is an all risk policy on your collectible merchandise. (Specific exclusions are mentioned in the policy).

Just recognize that I'm not the authority on this and before I post a "selling post" I want some others to read it first.

More on this later

neomax

[This message has been edited by neomax (edited 10-23-98).]
 

I should have said it was you who asked for more information. Mea culpa:-)

Actually, as an intermediarary, Auction Universe is out to make sure that buyers don't rip off sellers and seller's don't rip off buyers. We will live up to our motto: Auctions you can trust!

In your particular instance my undestanding is since we don't release the funds to you until we are sure it is a done deal, there is -- at least I can't imagine there being -- hardly any possibility that you would be subject to a charge back. The seller may try, but the chargeback would be to us... not to you.

If you have complied with the procedures and we release the money to you, we're not going to ask for it back unless the insurance company says you were both the buyer and the seller and the whole thing is a fraud and we're the victim.

In fact as I understand it, the only way you wouldn't get your money in a Bid$afe auction is if the person rejected your item and sent it back in good order and without damage. In that case, you would receive your item back undamaged and the fees you incurred for shipping. You would not be charged any AU sales commission for your failed auction.

In any case with Bid$afe transactions, our intention is to make sure as a seller, you don't incur risk of loss of your goods by dealing through AU. Same for buyers who risk their money.

A lot of people don't really get it. Let me see if I can explain it a bit differently.

Right now, because risk is such a big element in every transaction, only a small percentage of the auctions are for amounts in excess of $500 -- very small.

True, high-quality items rarely find their way to the online auctions. There is too much risk, not only to buyers but to sellers. We hope to change that at AU.

Part of the change is being brought by key members of our staff such as Antique Road Show regulars Tim Luke and Paul Royka. Let it suffice to say we don't need these real and noted collectible auctioneers on our staff to advise folks on how to sell chipped or fake McCoy vases.

When we designed Bid$afe, we designed it to work for today's sellers and buyers but also to provide the level of trust needed to lure higher-end products online. (That's why you'll see the reminder that our insurer offers even greater levels -- read larger dollar value coverage -- on our page and in bid$afe mailings.

Still, for me, $3,000 coverage per transaction is more than enough.)

neomax

PS: While I think I understand Bid$afe, I am not an insurance underwriter and I have not been trained in the product. I do own the product and have read the binder. The above is strictly my opinion on how this program works (or should work). My opinion is based on the logic of the offer from the company that I know seeks to live up its motto "Auctions you can Trust!"

I'll see what I can do to get our Bid$afe experts to respond or at least read my posts and correct any errors.

I don't know what kind of credit card you have but I know mine doesn't act as an escrow agent when I'm a buyer -- Bid$afe does.

I don't know what kind of credit card you have but I know mine doesn't insure my packages sent through the mail or by UPS or FedEX or Certified Mail up to $3,000 automatically -- Bid$afe does. (I have to pay UPS or the USPS for special insurance).

I don't know what kind of credit card you have but I know mine doesn't cover me from a loss if the item doesn't arrive from a seller (whom only a portion take credit cards anyway) -- Bid$afe does.

Certainly, my credit card doesn't also provided $25.00 in listings on AU (to be used before Dec. 31) for $19.95

Some credit card you got:-)

neomax


 

I understand. Typically, in the case of credit card fraud, your liability is limited to $50 by law. For security purposes, the bank (to save themselves the balance due over $50) will gladly re-issue the cards.

The difference between Bid$afe and this is that Bid$afe covers the $12.00 item in full... not just everything over $50.

But the reality is that the vast majority of the sales on the auctions are between individuals selling things from baseball trading cards to movie posters. Only a small percentage of the sellers will even take credit cards.

Bid$afe lets them do so and extends your credit card protections (as well as Bid$afe insurance) to the transaction and gives you a money back guarantee on the item when it arrives.

You already have that with Sears with your credit card but you don't have it with the fellow that lives in Hickoria AR and has that Sachel Page autographed baseball you've wanted for the last decade.

neomax

 

The way I read the documents to which I was pointed after sending a detailed query to AU, you basically do NOT guarantee satisfaction with an item, only its delivery. The seller might be happy, perhaps, since he gets his money. But if he sends a Beanie that smells like a tavern, the buyer has no recourse with BidSafe. If the "genuine cashmere whosits" becomes a wad of felt two inches square when the humidity goes over 70% -- it's tough beans for him, so to speak.

Are you now representing that _satisfaction_ is actually being guaranteed by BidSafe??? I would be happy if my first reading were incorrect.

I do like tough questions.

First, we do not take possession of the goods... we act as an escrow agent and take possession of the money.

Second. AU is not the beneficiary of the Bid$afe insurance, rather both the buyer and the seller each are beneficiariaries depending on the stage of the transaction.

True, Bid$afe does not indemnify against fraud... but if I were to call you a fraud (I'm not, this is just an example:-) you could potentially sue me for defamation of character. When an insurance company denies a claim on the basis of fraud, they are essentially opening themselves up to a defamation suit. Of course this is not likely as the insurance company won't typically call someone a fraud unless they have proof. In otherwords, they pay if they can't prove fraud. Their incentive, BTW, would be to investigate a claim and deny it if they can prove fraud by the person making the claim.

Indeed, it would be idiotic for an insurance company to agree to insure you against fraud by you.

If you read the documentation a little closer you would know that we offer conflict resolution services as a part of Bid$afe.

Copying material from our site... the one that you read ... it said under the topic,

How do I return an item?

The beauty of Bid$afe™ is that it provides both buyers and sellers recourse in the case of unsatisfactory exchanges.

Both parties just need to work within the Bid$afe™ framework to get the issue addressed. In the case of a returned item, complete the Bid$afe™ Merchandise Return Form within the 48 hour inspection period, notifying Auction Universe that you're dissatisfied with the merchandise and are returning it to the seller.

Remember, you must use an approved shipping method to ensure that your return is covered by Bid$afe™ insurance ... Once the seller has confirmed receipt of the returned merchandise, we will credit your credit card for the value of the merchandise.

Certainly this is not an unfettered right to return merchandise. There is a time limit. An auction seller is not Sears or Wal-mart and the return period is 48 hours, not 30 days

Incidentally, buyers are limited to no more than 25 returns in a year for the membership.

But, if in your example, the cashmere whosits arrived in a dry month and the humidity didn't rise to the requisite 70 percent for three weeks (after the deal closed) the buyer would be out of luck.

But Bid$afe opens up a level of protection to the vast majority of sellers and buyers by creating a structure for secure transfer of funds.

Indeed, Bid$afe is a significant advance in the realm of online transaction security when the buying and selling is between individuals.

It is, as I said to start this thread, a good idea.

neomax