posted on August 8, 2002 04:42:22 AM new
Good Morning,
For the last week starting with my auctions that closed last Thurs. night(8/1), every single one of them with an aol address did not receive the wbn. Yes I received it, but please don't tell me that is a proven that they were sent one. Don't ask me what auction numbers, its all the aol ones including any Buy It Now auctions and my auctions that ended Monday Night. I can forward all the e-mails that have come in saying that there was no wbn if you need proof. The keys are filled in only because I have edited them. I am now sending an e-mail to every customer with an aol address with all the needed information after the auction closes. Every customer when they get my direct e-mail confirms that they never received the wbn. I do not use the words - congratulations, winner, etc. in my subject line. This desperately needs to be answered to. Thanks.
posted on August 8, 2002 09:05:43 AM new
Hi Sonya,
No I have not. This has happen with aol addresses from time to time, but the last week has involved every single one not receiving the wbn.
posted on August 9, 2002 11:47:37 AM new
Hi,
Okay, Possibly be some issues? What issues? and at what time? And has it been fixed?? Could you please follow through here. Thanks.
posted on August 9, 2002 11:58:52 AM new
Hi Gottaluve,
I have not seen any other inquiries about this issue from other users sending WBNs to AOL users who have won from them. If AOL had been experiencing problems at any time around when WBNs were sent out, it's possible that those people did not get them. If you have received the copy then that means the copy went out to the winner so you might want to try something like, changing the wording in your title a little bit again.
posted on August 9, 2002 01:14:01 PM new
Is anyone else here experiencing this problem? I have carefully worded my text in the subject line. Yet again today, I just received an email from a customer (aol address) who says he is still waiting for my wbn email.(auction ended last night) I state in my tos that they will be receiving this so most of my customers realize to look for it. I feel as though you don't believe this problem is real. So if it is just me, no bother to look into it, right??
It looks like this problem is an AOL issue -- you are getting the carbon copies so they are definitely going out but the AOL ISP seems to be experiencing some problems. Are all your other winners receiving their WBNs?
posted on August 9, 2002 02:20:56 PM new
Hi,
I had only a few sold auctions close yesterday, only one wbn has been filled out so far by the customer(non-aol address). The other one was edited by me(the one I mention above who emailed me directly). Thanks.
posted on August 14, 2002 07:11:16 AM new
Same prob here. My AOL customers don't receive the WBN. I've resorted to saving a draft in my email program that gets the pertinent info to them if they don't receive/answer the WBN. PITA! But then, AOL people don't/can't click the link at the bottom of the WBN either. I think they've made AOL "so easy to use" that these folks don't even know how to copy and paste!
posted on August 14, 2002 08:33:00 PM new
I have heard from 4 AOL users today alone saying they need my information - none of them received any WBN from me.
posted on August 15, 2002 05:33:40 AM new
AOL's default email setting refuses mail from any ISP with the exception of AOL senders. A study conducted by Time Warner the parent company of AOL found that 15% of properly addressed email within the AOL system never reaches the intended recipient. On top of that AOL has dumbed down to the lowest common denominator which within AOL is for the most part a computer illiterate user that spends the majority of their online time in a chatroom communing with their intellectual counterpart. If you do reach them they are incapable of following simple instructions and have little or no knowledge of the computer. I've found Web TV users to have a better understanding of computers and the Internet.
posted on August 15, 2002 06:14:09 AM new
I've had same problem since 7/4 or before, not sure because they do not come back. AOL said they fixed it but blamed ATTBI. It is not just my server, I cannot reach any of them through AW WBN or eBay mail service either. Just received another irate bidder email today since 7/4 wondering why I haven't sent shipping information. Very frustrating.
posted on August 15, 2002 06:22:15 AM new
Received another reply that AOL members do have the ability to block senders and domains. Problem seems to be that they do not know this, nor how to change it. I wouldn't know where to begin.
posted on August 15, 2002 11:15:00 AM new
It isn't that they can block senders, the default setting when they set up accounts is AOL email only. AOL reinforces this by telling them it is done to protect them from unwanted email (the rest of the world). They don't have the ability to click on links as they navigate using AOL Keywords with a modified browser which has been dumbed down for them. I discovered that it is possible to contact them through eBay's checkout which has it's own server and does not carry your return email as the sending ISP. The email forwarding service is blocked if your ISP is not AOL. Communicating with them is a Big Giant PITA! I don't use eBay's checkout as it is labor intensive so generally I just wait them out, the irony is even if they get the WBN they don't have sufficient computer skills to respond for the most part and send strange emails such as I tried to checkout but it didn't let me.
posted on August 15, 2002 03:51:50 PM new
Hello everyone,
We are looking at this issue and would like to know if you could provide some ID numbers where your AOL customers did not receive the WBN, but it was clear that it was sent out. Thank you for your cooperation and your patience.
posted on August 15, 2002 07:16:19 PM new
Someone needs to look at why this is a huge problem for some and not for others. I installed aol a couple of years ago, never set or speced anything, and seem to get all my mail. I send messages and questions through ebay and get responses; I receive questions through ebay and all my wbn's are delivered. And 90% of them are answered. I think if ebay/aol/AW could figure out why some work so well, they'd have a model to go by.
posted on August 15, 2002 07:34:25 PM new
Your WBN's are delivered because they carry an AOL return address. Whether or not you receive all questions you'll never know as you aren't expecting any so will not miss them if they all don't arrive. If you search for the Keywords AOL & Email on any search engine you'll find years of articles and documentation on this ongoing problem. If you send a picture to an AOL user they get a popup that the email may contain objectionable material. Time Warner conceded that 15% of properly addressed email within the AOL system does not reach it's intended destination. AOL's email system does not recignize many standard html tags, basically it is an archaic system in need of an overhaul.
posted on August 15, 2002 07:42:49 PM new
Here's an example of 3 that a buyer claimed he never received. He just emailed me that he won all 3 (ended different days) and he hasn't heard from me yet.
2128682065
1554354664
2128366041
I'm wondering if it has something to do with the senders email address. I use a yahoo email address.
posted on August 15, 2002 08:05:41 PM new
I don't know what the answer is. The aol rep insists there is no problem because he has aol with no special adjustments and is receiving my email.
posted on August 15, 2002 08:22:18 PM new
Take your copy of one of the emails that is undeliverable. Paste the contents into a new email to the person who says they did not receive and see if it gets there. AOL customer service has there email configured to receive fron th WWW many of thier subscribers don't. This is a problem that has been widely reported for years and which AOL has denied continually yet persists.
posted on August 15, 2002 08:30:42 PM new
This article addresses the problems that Realtors are having with AOL. Check out the similarities:
REALTORS® who are braving the technology learning curve are being rewarded with an easy, inexpensive means of communicating with their clients. Email is hottest communication tool for Realtors since the cellular phone, but some Realtors using AOL aren't getting the service they deserve.
In order to enjoy the numerous features of America Online, one of the largest Internet Service Providers (ISPs) in the world, many Realtors have chosen AOL as their ISP for business use as well as personal use. Enticed by such lures as free trials, chat rooms, and Web centers, including a large real estate center powered by Realtor.com, Realtors are justifiably attracted to such a feature-rich, easy-to-use ISP.
When Realtors join AOL, they will have many benefits, but if AOL is so great, why do Internet trainers such as Michael Russer, Allen F. Hainge and Saul Klein, among others, routinely advise Realtors to avoid using AOL email for business purposes?
According to Russer and Hainge, the problem lies in the functionality of the email software. Russer has stated numerous times in training seminars across the country that AOL is not a business ISP. Hainge agrees. "AOL is not a businessperson's email," he says. "in that it is too limited in what it can do from a marketing standpoint (signatures, filters, separate mailboxes, etc.). You need an ISP, not AOL, for your email."
Klein, who operates a large ListServe called InternetCrusade, a talk forum for Realtors, says that AOL has problems specifically with email management. Over the past 5 months InternetCrusade has documented over 30 cases where long time RealTalk members have failed to receive the RealTalk-Digest.
Repeated attempt to correct the disappearing digests through the AOL postmaster have yielded no results, says Klein. "AOL insists the problem is on YOUR end." He quotes the AOL Postmaster reply "the end user has obviously made changes in their preferences to block the email."
"Their reasoning is that if some of us are getting the Digest, then all of us should be getting the digest unless 'we' made a change," says a frustrated Klein.
"AOL's mail manager is primitive," he says. "When you go to mailbox, I have to click on it and open the email. That takes a couple of seconds. And if that doesn't sound like much, and I am sending out a lot of emails, the time adds up if your are sending or receiving and you have to open every one. It has email limitations, attachment size limitations, attachment problems, multiple attachment issues on pre-4.0 versions, and an AOL return address even if you own your own domain.
"AOL is an "edutainment" Internet ISP," explains Klein. "Realtors need a true business provider and they need to learn to use email software such as Outlook Express, Outlook, Netscape Communicator, Eudora or other powerful email managing software."
Outlining the problems, Klein continues, "I can tell you that as far as problems with email size limitations, that the allowed size isn't very big. AOL will turn "big" emails into an attachment. It is one thing to download an attachment when somebody sends you an email or with a document attached to it...it's another thing and frustrating when you send an email and you don't attach anything and AOL makes it an attachment. You'll get an email that requires extra steps to read it.
"Another problem is that some emails sent to AOL addresses aren't ever received. We have 7,000 Realtors on our email ListServes. Certain of those people, including my wife, have been mysteriously not receiving email. What they have in common is that they are all American Online users."
Scott Davis, a partner and Webmaster with Realty Times, has noticed a similar pattern of email failure with agents who have signed up to receive Daily Headlines. He says there are a number of reasons why an email could fail to be delivered. "A mailbox could be full, the server could be busy, or the server could be down. You have to look at the error messages and see if the problem is on your end or AOL's end. The problem we are seeing is that the AOL servers seem to be accepting the mail from the sender, but the intended recipient never just receives it. This appears to be a problem on AOL's end. What makes this problem so bad is that the sender gets no indication that their email was not received."
Klein says, "They (AOL) have told us that our Real Talk subscribers may have changed their settings and that is why they aren't receiving the ListServe. But my wife and I didn't change any settings and I stopped receiving my own email on my own account!"
"As a Realtor, I have to wonder, if AOL rejects that mail, what other mail is it rejecting? I would be concerned if I were depending on AOL for my business communications," warns Klein.
Klein believes another problem exists in the communication AOL has with other servers. "If I wanted to send a word document and I'm not on AOL, when you try to open the attachment it will be unintelligible. Encryption is the problem and that is because AOL has its own protocols, so people receive attachments that they can't read.
"If I am a Realtor, and we are going to be sharing loan documents, the frustration would be immense. And technology is frustrating enough.
From a marketing standpoint, Klein believes using AOL is a mistake for Realtors. "If you are into personal marketing, the domain concept makes a lot of sense. It doesn't make sense to build brand recognition for AOL instead of for yourself. When you advertise yourself you should put your email on your business card. You are advertising yourself and AOL. And you are training people to use that service and you are locked in. If I change brokerage firms, people can always reach me at Saul at Saul.com. But, AOL doesn't provide an email forwarding service and any email I send from AOL will always have an AOL return address. So you can't personalize the email.
AOL is a big part of the market and can't be ignored. About 60% of Real Talk's subscribers are on AOL. Davis estimates about 20% of Realty Times subscribers are. So what are the alternatives?
Davis explains you have to sign up with another ISP in order to get a POP based email account. POP stands for Post Office Protocol, the Internet standard email protocol. POP accounts can be accessed from almost any email client software, including Microsoft Outlook Express and Netscape Communicator. Some ISPs also offer Web access to your email account. An email address comes with these accounts, but most ISPs will allow you to forward your email and allow you to set up your own domain name and use it for your new account.
You don't have to give up AOL to do this. "Another choice is to have a business dial-up account with another ISP and then when you want to use AOL, dial up using your business ISP number and go into AOL and you can pay just $9.95. Just don't use AOL's phone numbers," says Klein. "The business ISP we use and recommend is Frontier Global, we have used a number of ISPs. ATT, Sprint, Earthlink, we like, too."
"The most important thing is no long distance charges. Get an ISP with local numbers all over the country."
Klein adds, "By adding a POP account from another ISP and keeping your AOL account, you (and perhaps your family) can enjoy the functionality and community of AOL and have more flexibility in managing your electronic business communications. I like Outlook Express. It is free with your Internet Explorer browser. The Netscape browser package is also free."
posted on August 16, 2002 09:18:09 AM new
I've considered geting an AOL account on one of the 1000 hour offers and using it to contact AOL subscribers. It helps sometimes to use ebays request for user information as that sometimes shocks them into finding a way to reply. A few of my AOL customers are aware of the problem and maintain hotmail or yahoo email accounts also as they are more reliable (that blows my mind). When AOL first started I used them for a brief period but threw away thier software and used my own browser and ignored all of thier "services" I just wanted access to the internet, from there I went to a series of ISP's before landing where I am. Reaching AOL member can be a challenge and once reached many do not have the ability to navigate to the contact page most have no idea of the problem.
posted on August 16, 2002 09:24:35 AM new
I wouldn't even *think* of putting AO-Hell on my computer. I work on other people's PCs on the side, and I've run into more problems on their computers that are caused by the insidousness of AOL. TCP/IP problems, for instance. Don't even go there.
posted on August 16, 2002 09:30:26 AM new
I like the idea of getting their user info from ebay when the don't answer the WBN. At the least, they'd know I've been trying to reach them.
As I mentioned before, I keep a draft in my email folder composed specifically for AOL users. When I finally do hear from them, I pop in the auction number and subtley let them know their choice of ISP is to blame for the delay.
