posted on January 16, 2001 02:39:17 PM new
I'm a naive High School student and recently started selling DVD players on ebay to make some extra money. I used PayPal to accept a payment from someone in Indonesia. A month later, PayPal informed me this person used a fraudulent credit card. I immediately sent PayPal the buyer's address and all the info they asked for, but they aren't doing anything (it's been almost 3 months and they haven't emailed me once despite many attempts to contact them).
So, does anyone know of the proper legal course of action (FBI/Embassy...) that I could pursue to track this person down, and recover the money that the person defrauded me of?
posted on January 16, 2001 11:23:26 PM new
I guess you havent been doing your research. There has been a big scam coming out of indonesia using stolen credit cards and fraudulent Paypal accounts. That happened to me too. Good thing you found auctionwatch. Are you a verified seller with Paypal? If you are, you are safe, first of all give paypal customer service a call. There number is: 888/221-1161 Dont rely on emails. I waited two weeks and finally called them which really speeded up the process. If you are a verified seller, they will refund your money as long as you have provided them with the correct info that they need. Another thing you might want to do is to check out this website, it provides you with all the info you need http://www.fraud.org/internet/intinfo.htm
I hope this helps.
[ edited by paloma91 on Jan 16, 2001 11:25 PM ]
posted on January 17, 2001 07:41:55 PM new
Thanks for the help. I actually am a verified seller, and have tried calling paypal about 10 times over the last three months they have been "investigating" this case. I thought they don't protect you from charge back if you ship out of the U.S., so, how come they gave you a refund if you shipped to Indonesia?
Also, Paypal does not answer my questions when I call them up. All they tell me is to email them and they will they will get back to me within x amount of days. Every time, the x amount of days passes and I get no email reply or phone call. So, that's why I can really use some help on where to go to get a real investigation started on this person, or group of people, in Indonesia. I went to that website you gave me, but can not find much info on who to contact.
posted on January 18, 2001 11:54:43 AM new
Since Paypal and all the other services have stated over and over for months that you should never ship to certain countries such as Indonesia, Russia and Romania, they have absolutely no obligation to do anything for you. It doesnt make a difference if you are verified or not. You didn't bother to read the terms of service. I am no Paypal fan, as you can see by this web page I have put up Paypal Info but this one is not their fault.
posted on January 18, 2001 03:37:29 PM new
Ok, thanks a lot yisgood, for ignoring what I said and trying to make me look like a moron again. I just want to know what legal action I can take because obviously I am not covered with Paypal's policy (plus they haven't answered any of my emails, and when I call that 1-888-221-1161, they say they will either call me back or email me, and they never do...).
So, does anyone know, without saying I should have read every little thing on Paypal's site, or that I should contact Paypal, what to do when you are scammed??? I could really use some help because this is a lot of money for someone my age to lose.
posted on January 18, 2001 06:18:20 PM new
The reason all the services tell you not to ship to these countries is because the governments do nothing about fraud. One Paypal seller was defrauded by a Romanian to over $20,000. When they traced his ISP, he was using a computer in the office of the Romanian government. So I am sorry to tell you that the FBI is not going to send an agent to Indonesia to recover your money and neither is Paypal.
posted on January 18, 2001 09:12:33 PM new
Thanks for your help, but I don't want to give up just yet. I mean, there must be something I can do, I have the address that the buyer gave me. Doesn't the Indonesian government have some kind of law against fraud?
Also, I'm sure there are thousands of other people like me scammed every day because they were not told about what to look out for on auctions. I know you'll just say that people should have known what they were getting into when they bid on auctions, or sold something using paypal. But if you don't know about fraud in the first place, how would you know the importance of finding the fraud policy on the website?
posted on January 22, 2001 02:58:01 PM new
It sounds like you have been told. Age is not the thing alone that brings knowledge. Age allow time to have experiences. We learn from our experiences.We have all been taken by someone and we learn to be more careful.
posted on January 22, 2001 08:53:55 PM new
BEN HAVE YOU FILED WITH EBAY A FRAUD REPORT TO PREVENT THIS BUYER FROM DEFRAUDING ANOTHER SELLAR? I HOPE SO. UNFORUTANTELY YOU ARE NOT GOING TO RECOUP YOUR LOSS. THE AMOUNT OF MONEY A DVD COSTS IS A LOT TO LOSE EVEN FOR US OLD FOGGEYS. THE INDONESIAN GOVERMENT IT FULL OF THESE UNFORUNATE INCIDENTS AND YOU WILL NOT GET HELP ANY WHERE. ITS A CHALK UP TO EXPERIANCE LESSON. OUT OF USA DEAL IN CASHIERS CHECKS OR WIRE TRANSFER ONLY. NO CHARGES OR MONEY ORDERS OR CHECKS. SORRY THIS HAPPENED IT SUCKS.
posted on January 23, 2001 02:55:11 PM new
Will, I guess you guys are right, this really sucks, and I did learn a huge lesson from all this about fraud. Thanks for your information, and hopefully other people might read this and not fall for the same scam as me. If anyone is, here is a good website for some warning signs of fraud: http://www.billpoint.com/help/commerce-tips.html
Believe it or not, I was actually ripped off again because someone living in the U.S. paid for a DVD player with with a fraudulent paypal account. But this time, I followed Paypal's protection plan exactly. However, they haven't responded to me in months, and the only thing I know to do is call the police in the town where he lives. I know his address, and maybe other people are calling the police about this guy.
posted on January 30, 2001 08:48:00 PM new
Ya, if I just had known about fraud in the first place, I definitely would have used an escrow service. But, I definitely learned a hard lesson, and won't let something like this happen again (I hope).
Please review the terms of the Buyer/Seller Protection programs. It does not apply to international transactions or if the sellers sends the item overseas.
Please be careful when someone offers to make payment from countries like: Malaysia, Russia, Ukraine (actually, most of the former Soviet Bloc countries), Thailand, or Indonesia. (as a note, not all of these will have issues, but there is a greater risk of fraud from one of these locations).
Any user getting solicited to send items overseas (where the user states they are from one of these countries) through a PayPal account are more then likely to send me the information. I will be more than willing to look at it. Some domestic users will ask you to do the same thing---ask for additional information if you feel uncomfortable with the transaction.
posted on January 31, 2001 06:05:06 PM new
Dear Paypal representative:
To put it simply, Speak-a-da-English??? You say, "Any user getting solicited to send items overseas (where the user states they are from one of these countries) through a PayPal account are more then likely to send me the information. " Maybe I am not used to "Paypal talk," but I can not make sence out of what you're saying.
Also, why did you post this after everyone else in this post have basically already said that?
posted on January 31, 2001 06:19:46 PM new
Hi Ben08,
My apologies. I meant to state that the user is more than welcome to contact me via email about the situation.
I posted it to:
A) Let users know that I am available for issues like this and that I would like to know if someone from one of these countries tries to make payment through our service.
B) To state that policy does not cover items sent overseas.
C) Give users some additional information about countries that caution should be used when making a sale/transaction.
Thanks for bringing this to my attention so that I could clarify a little more. I tend to run ahead of myself at times.
I have been reading about paypal on message boards, and I have a few questions for you. I would really appreciate if you could answer them.
1. How many people work on PayPal's customer service, and of those, how many are "paypaldamons" (people who patrol message boards all day)?
2. Why is it that somebody can post their paypal problems on a message board and get an immediate response from you, but when I emailed paypal about 15 times starting October 17, I received no response until January 29?
For example, after calling your terrible customer service (here is the phone number for anyone who can not find it on the website: 1-888-221-1161), speaking to a supervisor (kelly @ ext. 4098), and being told I would get a call within 24 hours with answers to my questions, I never got a call. I know this is a specific example, but I have called PayPal 5 times, and each time I was told to expect a response (either phone call or by email) but never received any.
3. Approximately how many accounts are there currently under review at paypal?
Thanks in advance if you can clearly answer these questions for me.
posted on February 12, 2001 11:33:59 AM new
Hi ben08,
I have been reading about paypal on message boards, and I have a few questions for you. I would really appreciate if you could answer them.
1. How many people work on PayPal's customer service, and of those, how many are "paypaldamons" (people who patrol message boards all day)? (Me and one other person patrol the boards-my job is not exclusively answering customer questions---customer service has fairly close to 500 people working)
2. Why is it that somebody can post their paypal problems on a message board and get an immediate response from you, but when I emailed paypal about 15 times starting October 17, I received no response until January 29? (I can only gather items that come to my attention---users frequent boards for questions to answers and post about experiences).
For example, after calling your terrible customer service (here is the phone number for anyone who can not find it on the website: 1-888-221-1161), speaking to a supervisor (kelly @ ext. 4098), and being told I would get a call within 24 hours with answers to my questions, I never got a call. I know this is a specific example, but I have called PayPal 5 times, and each time I was told to expect a response (either phone call or by email) but never received any.
3. Approximately how many accounts are there currently under review at paypal?
(No idea, but the number of customer service inquiries relative to accound restricted issues is extremely low in comparison to the number of emails received on a daily basis)
posted on February 12, 2001 02:04:14 PM new
I think you missed what I was asking in the 2nd question, so let me say it differently. If you have 500 customer service people, why do they not respond to emails regarding account review until they have completed their "investigation," which in my case took over 3 months? (Please do not copy my question, or leave a couple spaces so I can read your answer more clearly).
And, please do not try to tell me that they reply to emails. I know from personal experience and reading on these message boards that in most cases they do not, or at most send some form email that has nothing to do with what you sent them.
posted on February 16, 2001 02:49:40 PM new
From now on you could... 1. Take cash or Int'l money orders only from International bidders. 2. Ship to U.S. only.
Sorry you got scammed. I'm sick of e-Bay keeping fees from scams, deadbeats, and fraud sellers. THEY are the real thief as far as I am concerned....Jakkman
posted on February 17, 2001 07:12:25 PM new
Thanks for the website, I will try reporting my case.
I just wish the paypal guy would answer my question about why they take as long as they do in responding to emails regarding the investigation of a person's account, while in the meantime they keep the person's money and earn interest on it. Again, in my case they restricted my money for over 3 months, and did not answer one single email or return my phone calls when they said they would.
I think he has trouble answering a straightforward question like this because it is too hard to make something up, like saying paypal is trying to help speed up their "investigation" by not answering any emails or returning any phone calls!
posted on February 20, 2001 11:15:29 AM new
Hi ben08,
Customer service inquiries are handled as quickly as possible and the majority of emails are handled within 24 to 48 hours. More complex cases, such as scam reports or fraud, take longer to fulfill due to the investigative nature.
posted on February 22, 2001 08:09:46 PM newWay to go! You avoided my question and made paypal look like they try to do their best!
I was asking why it is that paypal, at least in my case and several people who post on this message board, took several months to reply to emails in regards to an account that is being "investigated."
Even when I called and spoke with several different customer care people, I received no answers to my questions. I spoke with a supervisor, Kelly at ext. 4098, who told me she could contact the account review dept. and would call me back within 24 hours. Guess what? She never called me back, or didn't even send an email saying why she couldn't.
Maybe you will say the questions were "too complex." Actually, not at all! I asked:
1. Why is my account restricted, and when and if it can be restored.
2. When I try to log in to my account, it tells me it is "frozen," so how can I log into my account? (I needed to log in because in PayPal's form-email they told me to log in to check my account to see who sent me fraudulent funds...too bad they had restricted me from doing this...)
3. (After a week) -- Why do you not respond to my emails?
I just want to show how simple these questions are, and there is no valid reason I can think of that PayPal did not respond to my questions for over 3 months!!!
Again, my only question now is what reason can you come up with for the way paypal does not respond to emails regarding account "investigations" in a reasonable (2-4 business days) amount of time???
posted on February 23, 2001 01:09:37 PM new
Hi ben08,
The majority of customer service inquiries are handled within 24-48 hours. I can have your case escalated/reviewed with your email address sent to me ([email protected]).
posted on February 24, 2001 09:08:57 PM new
'com on ben.
Lets be realistic. All you can do is get ahold of the officials in indonesia to track this guy down. Then he will have to be sent to the united states to stand trial, if you can get anyone here to prosacute him you will only win a judgment which you will still have to collect from him. By that time he will be back in indonesia. FAT CHANCE ALL THE WAY AROUND. CONSIDER THE MONEY GONE AND A LESSON LEARNED.
posted on February 24, 2001 10:13:45 PM new
Yes, it has been a "lesson learned." However, I am not going to just let it go. I think I will start a website with some people at my high school to stop the ridiculous amount of fraud going down on auction sites, and through payment services. I find that eBay and paypal, or any other place that is easy for frauds to scam people, do not adequately prepare their users for scam artists. I was scammed for twice the money I had at the time because I did not know anything about fraud. There needs to be some sort of law that makes services like PayPal or eBay clearly state warning signs of fraud when you sign up.
Somebody at PayPal told me they are afraid if they did this, people would be afraid to join their service! They don't care about people losing all their money to frauds because that might stop one or two people from signing up with their rip-off service.
And to paypaldamon -- your answer is completely ridiculous!!! I already pointed out that I had made several emails and phone calls for over three months and they did not respond once! Actually, two times I called, they "escalated" their "investigation" and told me I would get a reply within 3-5 business days.
I just want people to know PayPal definitely does not care about you or what they do with your money. There is no explanation this paypaldamon can come up with to explain why they do not respond to emails, and flat-out lie to you when you talk on the phone to them (say the will get back to you, and never do).
posted on February 28, 2001 02:40:27 PM new
To all you sellers out there who are getting frustrated and abused by:
· Non-paying bidders
· paypal charge backs
· Bounced checks
· Fraud problems
· Negative feedback for no good reason (retaliation)
I found out the hard way that safe harbor and FBI don’t do a thing about it, and I signed up for a sitesentury.com, a security company that will do REAL investigations. Check out their site, I signed up for their service and I put their log on all my auctions and the bad guys will think twice before they mess with me!!!!!!! It is like having a security guard by my side protecting me!!! Which car do you thing the thieves like to break-in: one with alarm-on or one without??? That is what the log will do for you.
The investigator already got me some of the money I lost on bounced checks and the bank fee too!!!!!!
Do yourself a favor and check out sitesentry.com
